How much free time per day can you have in order to be top 10% in your class?

[metallica81788]

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What was your most challenging part of your 1st semester as a freshman? What about high school?

 

[StormingWynn]

What has been most challenging for me in medschool is that at times I'm forced to move so fast that I can't really stop to enjoy the material that I'd probably really love given the time to contemplate it. Imaging a hot dog eating contest, you love hot dogs, but after your 10th in this sitting you just can't stand them any more. You can't stop and take a break because everyone else around you is miserable but still chowing down on those darn hot dogs. And whoever keeps down the least in the bunch will fail. And everything you've been working for the past 5 years rides on you not failing. So you keep going. This is totally what many a weekend right before an exam feels like for me. I love medicine but sometimes you can't stop and take a break and those moments can make you miserable regardless of your love of medicine.

We just fly through the material at a pace I would have thought was impossible as a freshman in undergrad. At my school we covered an entire semester long undergrad immunology course in 2 weeks. I know this because my classmate used the textbook we covered as her undergrad text at a rather prestigious university. If you had asked me to cover an entire UG course in two weeks I would have thought you were insane, in fact I distinctly remember commenting about how summer classes were so insane because they did that in 2 months, lol.

I getcha. That does sound insane, ugh, oh well. I guess we'll have to stuff down the material without really slowing down to contemplate on it. 🙁 But, hey in the end, you'll be a doctor and that's what matters right? 🙂 You'll be immersed in all that stuff you material everyday. LOL

 

[SirGecko]

Not really. Of the 5 physics majors I know, only 2 of them have even respectable stats (GPA and MCAT). The 2 who are guaranteed to get in are 3.6/35+ kids but the other 3 have below 30 MCATs and will struggle to get into a US school.

Sorry to dig back to the first page of this thread but I thought this post required a response:

You are conflating getting into medical school and doing well in medical school. They aren't the same thing. A good applicant can be a bad student and a bad applicant can be a great student.

 

[StormingWynn]

What was your most challenging part of your 1st semester as a freshman? What about high school?

What? Dude, are you a sour person or something? Sheesh, calm down! Oh big tough man trying to insult people over the internet. Get out and get a life! No one is even talking to you anymore because you're a childish person and you still don't let it go. Gain some maturity. I'd sure hate to have someone like you as my doctor.

 

[anbuitachi]

does Homework count as studying? I have a LOT of required homework to hand in so i do a lot of work every night =(, but actually going back to review... like none at all except before exams

 

[ButImLETired]

What has been most challenging for me in medschool is that at times I'm forced to move so fast that I can't really stop to enjoy the material that I'd probably really love given the time to contemplate it. Imaging a hot dog eating contest, you love hot dogs, but after your 10th in this sitting you just can't stand them any more. You can't stop and take a break because everyone else around you is miserable but still chowing down on those darn hot dogs. And whoever keeps down the least in the bunch will fail. And everything you've been working for the past 5 years rides on you not failing. So you keep going. This is totally what many a weekend right before an exam feels like for me. I love medicine but sometimes you can't stop and take a break and those moments can make you miserable regardless of your love of medicine.

We just fly through the material at a pace I would have thought was impossible as a freshman in undergrad. At my school we covered an entire semester long undergrad immunology course in 2 weeks. I know this because my classmate used the textbook we covered as her undergrad text at a rather prestigious university. If you had asked me to cover an entire UG course in two weeks I would have thought you were insane, in fact I distinctly remember commenting about how summer classes were so insane because they did that in 2 months, lol.

I totally agree with this, and I find it to be the hardest/most depressing part of med school. I know that what I'm studying (for the most part...embryology makes me want to jump into a pool of acid) is what I love. I would love to sit there and read it and enjoy what I'm learning, maybe look up extra stuff about it on my own, ask my incredibly knowledgeable professors for extra info, integrate said info with stuff from other subjects...etc. But you just don't have the time for that. Right now, I'm learning about cardiovascular physiology. I love cardiovascular physiology, and the more I think about it, the more I'd like to become a cardiologist. In theory, this is all amazing. But in practice, it's making me miserable. Why? Because I spend all morning in lecture, often have an afternoon in lab, and then have to spend every evening studying it. No matter what, I'm always behind, so I'm constantly stressed out and snapping at everyone. I'm irritated at having to know details of things, irritated every time I have to go to class or read stuff that won't be on the exam (even if it's possibly my favorite stuff) because I don't have time for it, irritated to try and do the other stuff I used to love to do, like reading or doing music stuff. I hate feeling like I don't get to be curious anymore, and I don't get to be a well-rounded person anymore, and I don't get to enjoy studying what I love anymore. Unfortunately, med school can do that.

 

[zinciest]

You must understand that basically every major in college is simple (read: memorize/regurgitate) excluding physics (read: think) and maybe biochem. Esp. freshman year! lol dude.

There are a lot of majors that aren't simple. I'd actually bet the vast majority require thinking, and not just the really hard sciences.

Also, calling a random person a ***** is not cool.

 

[BennieBlanco]

There are a lot of majors that aren't simple. I'd actually bet the vast majority require thinking, and not just the really hard sciences.

Also, calling a random person a ***** is not cool.

What about calling a ***** a *****? There are *****s in the world.

Oh and when I say thinking, I didn't mean it lightly. I meant real difficult thinking. It is interesting to watch a person with a 4.0 struggle in physics because they've memorized their way through school. They have always been shown, DO X get Y. It is monkey see monkey do.

Lets face it, 90% of classes just have a teacher tell you something and then you repeat it. One guy had a really good post about this, I could find it if you want.

I was using "think" like a person might use "play" in this sentence: Kobe bryant can play basketball.

You would respond, my little 4 year old cousin can also play basketball.

My response again, it that I'm not using the world lightly.

I would not say that physics/engineering are the only majors that require thinking, but I would estimate that 80% or more do not.

 

[BennieBlanco]

What? Dude, are you a sour person or something? Sheesh, calm down! Oh big tough man trying to insult people over the internet. Get out and get a life! No one is even talking to you anymore because you're a childish person and you still don't let it go. Gain some maturity. I'd sure hate to have someone like you as my doctor.

You did not answer the question.😱😱

🙂

 

[StormingWynn]

What about calling a ***** a *****? There are *****s in the world.

Oh and when I say thinking, I didn't mean it lightly. I meant real difficult thinking. It is interesting to watch a person with a 4.0 struggle in physics because they've memorized their way through school. They have always been shown, DO X get Y. It is monkey see monkey do.

Lets face it, 90% of classes just have a teacher tell you something and then you repeat it. One guy had a really good post about this, I could find it if you want.

I was using "think" like a person might use "play" in this sentence: Kobe bryant can play basketball.

You would respond, my little 4 year old cousin can also play basketball.

My response again, it that I'm not using the world lightly.

I would not say that physics/engineering are the only majors that require thinking, but I would estimate that 80% or more do not.

Philosophy, biotechnology, music, economics, polotics... ETC don't require thinking? Are you a physics/engineering major? If so you should rethink on who you call a "*****". Those who think they know everything are those those who don't know anything at all. Words of wisdom buddy. Please stop trying to put those majors are superior to other majors. There are genius in the world who choose other majors besides those and because of those majors physics nor engineering would exist. What do you think scientist in olden times were called... "NATURAL PHILOSOPHERS!"

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Philosophy, biotechnology, music, economics, polotics... ETC don't require thinking? Are you a physics/engineering major? If so you should rethink on who you call a "*****". Those who think they know everything are those those who don't know anything at all. Words of wisdom buddy. Please stop trying to put those majors are superior to other majors. There are genius in the world who choose other majors besides those and because of those majors physics nor engineering would exist. What do you think scientist in olden times were called... "NATURAL PHILOSOPHERS!"

you need to heed your advice and simmer down.

 

[ronaldo23]

Is there really an advantage to being top of your class? Isn't it enough to study so that you feel you really learn the material and will have a very good foundation for the USMLE, which is what really matters. I'm not saying that you should slack off, barely pass and expect to just ace this test, but I feel like being in the middle of the class, along with having a solid foundation of core concepts will make you as competitive for it. What ya'll think?

From what I hear, a lot of MSI and MSII tests are based on arbitrary information that isn't necessarily covered by the USMLE, such as professor's who think their research is super important and put it on all the tests.

 

[StormingWynn]

you need to heed your advice and simmer down.

Yeah you're right. I just got a little upset because someone was dismissing other majors beside physics and engineering as less. Oh well, I'll calm down now and let the kid go in with his life thinking he's the best.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Well, there's definitely a reason some majors are known for being harder than others, and it's no coincidence that the "hard sciences" have the reputation they do. That doesn't mean that other majors are cakewalks, of course, but not all subjects were created equal.

I hate feeling like I don't get to be curious anymore, and I don't get to be a well-rounded person anymore, and I don't get to enjoy studying what I love anymore. Unfortunately, med school can do that.

Seconded, especially the well-rounded part.

 

[MSSM2013]

Is there really an advantage to being top of your class? Isn't it enough to study so that you feel you really learn the material and will have a very good foundation for the USMLE, which is what really matters. I'm not saying that you should slack off, barely pass and expect to just ace this test, but I feel like being in the middle of the class, along with having a solid foundation of core concepts will make you as competitive for it. What ya'll think?

From what I hear, a lot of MSI and MSII tests are based on arbitrary information that isn't necessarily covered by the USMLE, such as professor's who think their research is super important and put it on all the tests.

preclinical grade tend to be correlated with board score.

 

[ZeusonRoids]

I understand your basic question and I will try my best not to sound like a douche and not answer your question like many other people on this forum...

There are people in my class that literally spend all of their free time studying or "studying" ("studying" = having books open but dicking around about 40% of the time). No matter what day I go to my desk at school (the school provides us our own cubicle type things) I will see 3-4 people studying (out of the 25 that share my office). Usually those are the same people.

Some of them are really bright but mostly they are just tools in need of a life.

Sorry to say but the majority of the people in the top 10% of your class (at least during the basic science years) will be people who either have a masters/ Ph.D in the subject you are studying...or they will just be a brilliant person who never needs to study. The rest of the people at my school are all about the same. This could change in the clinical years though...I am not sure how that will translate and I really don't know that many 3rd years.

I would say that you should probably be studying between 2 to 10 hrs per day depending on how far away a test is. for the first week after we have a big test, it is like a huge party for my class because we are only tested once every several weeks. But during 2 weeks leading up to a test people are doing nothing other than studying. The best (and my roommate is one of them) are freaking intense about it. They will wake up and LITERALLY study until they sleep. He takes a 15 min break every 1.5 hrs and an hour for dinner...but other than that he goes from like 9am until 1-2 am.

I am probably in the middle of my class...and I am no genius, but I have not studied since my test on monday (Woohoo 1.5 day break!!) and I will start up again with about 4hrs outside of class per night for the first few weeks while material builds up and then go hard (like 6-8hrs outside of class per day...not counting Friday...or times when I think I might get laid.) until my test before christmas break.

 

[zinciest]

What about calling a ***** a *****? There are *****s in the world.

Oh and when I say thinking, I didn't mean it lightly. I meant real difficult thinking. It is interesting to watch a person with a 4.0 struggle in physics because they've memorized their way through school. They have always been shown, DO X get Y. It is monkey see monkey do.

Lets face it, 90% of classes just have a teacher tell you something and then you repeat it. One guy had a really good post about this, I could find it if you want.

I was using "think" like a person might use "play" in this sentence: Kobe bryant can play basketball.

You would respond, my little 4 year old cousin can also play basketball.

My response again, it that I'm not using the world lightly.

I would not say that physics/engineering are the only majors that require thinking, but I would estimate that 80% or more do not.

I'm not using the word think lightly either. You think in sociology, philosophy, math, english, engineering, etc.. I actually think that the majors that are pure regurgitation are in the minority.

Also, in regards to calling people a ***** - it's a bad thing to do, even if you perceive that someone is one. The OP asked a question that obviously can't be answered, but I think that calling someone a name that serves absolutely no purpose is always a negative and unproductive thing to do.

 

[LRAccord624]

I am probably in the middle of my class...and I am no genius, but I have not studied since my test on monday (Woohoo 1.5 day break!!) and I will start up again with about 4hrs outside of class per night for the first few weeks while material builds up and then go hard (like 6-8hrs outside of class per day...not counting Friday...or times when I think I might get laid.) until my test before christmas break.

I like your style. Haha!

 

[bannie22]

you can easily have lots of free time in a day to be in the top 5% of your class... its just balance...

as long as u get rid of all those billioins of hours i put into procrastination every year 🙁

 

[MilkmanAl]

Like others have said, that isn't necessarily true. In fact, that's true only for a very small percentage of students. Like, you might have 1 person in your year who can work an average amount yet top the class. Again, there are plenty of people who fight tooth and nail to pass. In med school, balance is often impossible.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Philosophy, biotechnology, music, economics, polotics... ETC don't require thinking? Are you a physics/engineering major? If so you should rethink on who you call a "*****". Those who think they know everything are those those who don't know anything at all. Words of wisdom buddy. Please stop trying to put those majors are superior to other majors. There are genius in the world who choose other majors besides those and because of those majors physics nor engineering would exist. What do you think scientist in olden times were called... "NATURAL PHILOSOPHERS!"

No I am not a physics major. But respect to them.

Music lol. Britney Spears is a genius. You can't tell me that a guy sitting around wondering why the world is how it is (philosophy) is having a challenging course compared to a guy taking quantum physics.

Many people BS there way through philosophy and get A's.

Physics is a tougher major than things like biology, fact. I am in molecular biology and all we do is memorize stuff, if the test was open note everyone would get 100%. You can't say that about a quantum physics class.

I didn't say people in other majors were not smart. I said that there are only a small percentage of difficult majors that require lots of mental capacity.

 

[BennieBlanco]

I'm not using the word think lightly either. You think in sociology, philosophy, math, english, engineering, etc.. I actually think that the majors that are pure regurgitation are in the minority.

Also, in regards to calling people a ***** - it's a bad thing to do, even if you perceive that someone is one. The OP asked a question that obviously can't be answered, but I think that calling someone a name that serves absolutely no purpose is always a negative and unproductive thing to do.

math and engineering agreed.

sociology and philosophy? maybe. Probably not most though. I had a few sociology professors that were not very intelligent.

We will have to disagree on calling people *****s.

Like when Kayne interrupted the speech at the VMAs, people said, "Kayne is a *****." If you are out of line you may get called out on it.

Sometimes it is appropriate. Not everyone is politically correct and minces words. If someone is behaving like an idiot I will call them out on it. Feel free not to.

 

[StormingWynn]

No I am not a physics major. But respect to them.

Music lol. Britney Spears is a genius. You can't tell me that a guy sitting around wondering why the world is how it is (philosophy) is having a challenging course compared to a guy taking quantum physics.

Many people BS there way through philosophy and get A's.

Physics is a tougher major than things like biology, fact. I am in molecular biology and all we do is memorize stuff, if the test was open note everyone would get 100%. You can't say that about a quantum physics class.

I didn't say people in other majors were not smart. I said that there are only a small percentage of difficult majors that require lots of mental capacity.

Music, Beethoven, Mozart... I'm preety sure they are smarter than you'll ever be. Have you ever studied music? Do you know the thinking they put into creating masterpieces? Have you ever studied the brain and seen the amount of thinking required to play a musical instrument and the stimulation music creates on the brain? Philosophy, Aristotle, Plato, etc. Yeah, they sure as hell are smarter than you'll ever be. But you know what? Live in your own world thinking plugging in numbers and allowing computers to do all the work for you is hard.

math and engineering agreed.

sociology and philosophy? maybe. Probably not most though. I had a few sociology professors that were not very intelligent.

We will have to disagree on calling people *****s.

Like when Kayne interrupted the speech at the VMAs, people said, "Kayne is a *****." If you are out of line you may get called out on it.

Sometimes it is appropriate. Not everyone is politically correct and minces words. If someone is behaving like an idiot I will call them out on it. Feel free not to.

Ok, I'll call you out. YOU SIR, ARE A *****! 👍

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Music, Beethoven, Mozart... I'm preety sure they are smarter than you'll ever be. Have you ever studied music? Do you know the thinking they put into creating masterpieces? Have you ever studied the brain and seen the amount of thinking required to play a musical instrument and the stimulation music creates on the brain? Philosophy, Aristotle, Plato, etc. Yeah, they sure as hell are smarter than you'll ever be. But you know what? Live in your own world thinking plugging in numbers and allowing computers to do all the work for you is hard.

actually the evidence is that mozart's music was effortless.

edit: also, stop being so butthurt over everything

 

[BennieBlanco]

Music, Beethoven, Mozart... I'm preety sure they are smarter than you'll ever be.

LOL!

agreed. The handful of guys you chose were very intelligent. They are much more intelligent than I, I have never claimed to be a genius.

Newton and Einstein were also very intelligent.

What I am saying is at college today. If I were to gather 1000 music majors and 1000 physics majors with 3.8+ GPAs across the US, I sure you would find a large gap in intelligence. In fact, I'm sure the music majors would even admit this.

I like this guy's post from another thread about MCAT/science majors:

He is smarter than me and explains the idea better, he is talking about bio vs physics but I think this applies to many other majors. Although literature can be challenging too.

most of what I see people doing in my science classes is memorization. Biology, as it is presented in undergrad, is memorization with only a small bit of understanding necessary. There are no logical leaps that need to be taken on behalf of the student. This is how the biology student robs himself of his education and is also why so many bio students have issues with physics--because they are not used to having to put information together themselves. They expect there to be fully worked out examples of every type of problem they're going to do in a homework set in the book. I had the same mentality entering physics and it took a while for my professors to beat it out of me. Now when I sit down with a problem I'm not afraid to think about it for 5-10 minutes before I start writing anything down...and I'm certainly not afraid if I'm 45 minutes into a problem and no solution is in sight. I regularly spend up to 3 hours working a problem. You get a sort of insight into how things work. In this way I think medical school will be a breeze compared to physics...

Usually when I see a biology student showing off they are just reciting how much of something they can remember. This is because mechanism isn't focused on in biology courses. You don't need to know how something works--or why it works--just that it works and it has this or that name. A class where this was all too common was genetics. Things bind, they unbind, molecules signal eachother, etc. but at the end of the day you know nothing about how these processes work. All you know is a bunch of 3 letter names for genes and some vague terminology(signaling, attaching, etc.) for how they interact.


On a side note, one thing that really bothers me is that you bio majors is that many of you don't understand what a derivative is. This is why teachers always just the delta notation to explain the difference in something. Since you guys don't understand ordinary differential equations you don't understand where any of the equations that involve e^x come from...or even what e means.

In the end I don't know how much critical thinking really comes into play with being a doctor. Of the doctors I've talked to(I come from a large family of them) they say not very much. I mean, you memorize a ton of anatomy and have a cohesive picture of how the body works but it is still a functional type of knowledge that is rooted in empiricism. For a researcher an aptitude for critical thinking is, well, critical.

On the flip side my physics professor told me he got a C in o chem and dropped the class the second quarter. It wasn't for him. Most people in my physics classes cringe at the thought of memorizing huge note sets and think premeds are way too competitive. So I guess it's different strokes for different folks. But you biology majors sure are missing out on understanding the fundamentals of what you're studying and it's very unfair to you. Sadly, physics majors refuse to believe that you can get accustomed to learning large amounts of information in short periods of time and biology majors refuse to believe that you can learn critical thinking skills by practicing. It's a peculiar disposition.

I can't blame you for thinking how you do. You are a freshman in college and have much to learn, and a lot of humbling ahead of you.

 

[BennieBlanco]

completely off topic, this video is funny:

[YOUTUBE]1R0a9xq6uek[/YOUTUBE]

 

[PranBobbyJohnny]

a couple of hours a day should be enough if you are efficient

 

[GoSpursGo]

Let's please refrain from personal attacks. It is definitely possible to have a disagreement without stooping to calling each other names.

 

[findlife]

my freshman year, i didnt study much and i did extracurriculars that were fun ~20 hrs/week. then i decided to start studying sophomore year, so i dropped everything and studied 4 hrs a day and all day everyday on the weekends and had no time for anybody. this year, i'm kind of in between. i make time for friends on the weekends, i still go out to dinner and have fun, but i make up for it the rest of the time by planning my schedule well and really focusing when i need to. if i didn't have lab and my hospital duties then i'd have like 20 hrs of free time a week. honestly it's not how much you study, it's how you study. i studied way more in high school but had a worse gpa than now. it's just that i learned how to play the game. learn how your professor thinks and what he cares about. learn their personality (are they detail oriented? or liberal - as in 'i'm ok with general answers' - or are they meticulus (this kind of professor wants keywords) - or are they conceptual (dont care about phrasing or keywords, just want the logic and idea) - etc...) you get the picture. i know lots of partiers with straight a's, lots of hard-knuckled nose-in-the-book stressed-out types with only b's and c's... i also know focused people with straight a's and slackers with b's and c's. the bottom line is people will live their lives and so should you. you learn to play the game along the way.

 

[RapplixGmed]

Physics is a tougher major than things like biology, fact. I am in molecular biology and all we do is memorize stuff, if the test was open note everyone would get 100%. You can't say that about a quantum physics class.

LOL this is totally true. I was a physics major in undergrad and all of our exams in the quantum class were open book and open notes. In fact, when our professor told us about the exam, he was like you can bring whatever resources you want into the exam except for using other people or anything computer more advanced than Ti89... then he chuckled. People would come in with piles of textbooks and multiple calculators. The averages on the exams were still below 60...

In med school, acing everything would be rediculously easy if I had the textbook and course notes in front of me. This is the difference between memorizing and thinking.

 

[Old Grunt]

For those of you who are in the top 10% of your class and looking to rock the USMLE and get into a competitive residency, how much free time/day do you have?

If I wanted to do this, should I expect to have no more than 30 min. of free time every day including weekends?

How much do you study per day?

Exactly 2 hours (not counting sleep).

One minute more, and you risk jumping into the 11th percentile and being doomed to have to practice medicine in a fourth world nation, because you won't be able to land a residency anywhere else.







(I think the obvious answer to this question is "it depends on the person.", but I am sure that has already been stated numerous times here.)

 

[Old Grunt]

Not really. Of the 5 physics majors I know, only 2 of them have even respectable stats (GPA and MCAT). The 2 who are guaranteed to get in are 3.6/35+ kids but the other 3 have below 30 MCATs and will struggle to get into a US school.

Sorry, but that's just not believable. You don't study a few hours before an exam for the first time and expect to have any sort of success. It doesn't matter how smart your friend was.

Since you've obviously got everything figured out already, why bother to ask for the opinions of people who are actually in Med School?

 

[Old Grunt]

Oh trust me, I know my weaknesses. I work at those weaknesses everyday,

Work harder.

Was the point of this thread to give your insights on how much you study to stay on top of the class? In the end I assume what studying is for some is a totally different thing to others.

No, it was about medical school.

 

[BennieBlanco]

LOL this is totally true. I was a physics major in undergrad and all of our exams in the quantum class were open book and open notes. In fact, when our professor told us about the exam, he was like you can bring whatever resources you want into the exam except for using other people or anything computer more advanced than Ti89... then he chuckled. People would come in with piles of textbooks and multiple calculators. The averages on the exams were still below 60...

In med school, acing everything would be rediculously easy if I had the textbook and course notes in front of me. This is the difference between memorizing and thinking.

Exactly what I'm talking about, I didn't know they actually did that😀

If you can have any resources you want and still have 60% exam averages then it goes to show that the class involves difficult thinking!

This is all I've been saying. My physiology/biology classes with a textbook and notes would have 99.5% averages.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Many of my physics courses were the same way. You have to know how to use the material. Looking at the equations won't do you much good if you can't apply them and manipulate them as necessary.

 

[StormingWynn]

LOL!

agreed. The handful of guys you chose were very intelligent. They are much more intelligent than I, I have never claimed to be a genius.

Newton and Einstein were also very intelligent.

What I am saying is at college today. If I were to gather 1000 music majors and 1000 physics majors with 3.8+ GPAs across the US, I sure you would find a large gap in intelligence. In fact, I'm sure the music majors would even admit this.

I like this guy's post from another thread about MCAT/science majors:

He is smarter than me and explains the idea better, he is talking about bio vs physics but I think this applies to many other majors. Although literature can be challenging too.





I can't blame you for thinking how you do. You are a freshman in college and have much to learn, and a lot of humbling ahead of you.

Depends on how you define intelligence. Me and you clearly have different definitions of the word.

 

[psipsina]

I totally agree with this, and I find it to be the hardest/most depressing part of med school. I know that what I'm studying (for the most part...embryology makes me want to jump into a pool of acid) is what I love. I would love to sit there and read it and enjoy what I'm learning, maybe look up extra stuff about it on my own, ask my incredibly knowledgeable professors for extra info, integrate said info with stuff from other subjects...etc. But you just don't have the time for that. Right now, I'm learning about cardiovascular physiology. I love cardiovascular physiology, and the more I think about it, the more I'd like to become a cardiologist. In theory, this is all amazing. But in practice, it's making me miserable. Why? Because I spend all morning in lecture, often have an afternoon in lab, and then have to spend every evening studying it. No matter what, I'm always behind, so I'm constantly stressed out and snapping at everyone. I'm irritated at having to know details of things, irritated every time I have to go to class or read stuff that won't be on the exam (even if it's possibly my favorite stuff) because I don't have time for it, irritated to try and do the other stuff I used to love to do, like reading or doing music stuff. I hate feeling like I don't get to be curious anymore, and I don't get to be a well-rounded person anymore, and I don't get to enjoy studying what I love anymore. Unfortunately, med school can do that.

It gets better during 3rd year if that helps you get thru the darkness of preclin. My schedule is no longer my own but I have enough moments throughout the day that I can contemplate or investigate a bit more. I'm definitely still rushed alot of the time but I feel more intellectually fulfilled by both conversation on rounds and my own time to really fill out my understanding of subjects that interest me. Hang in there!

 

[greatnt249]

Exactly what I'm talking about, I didn't know they actually did that😀

If you can have any resources you want and still have 60% exam averages then it goes to show that the class involves difficult thinking!

This is all I've been saying. My physiology/biology classes with a textbook and notes would have 99.5% averages.

Or...it means you're better off learning the material in the first place instead of burning most of the test time away trying to find it in the book.

 

[Handinhand]

Depends on how you define intelligence. Me and you clearly have different definitions of the word.

Exactly what I was going to say. Intelligence is completely subjective and you are incredibly naive to think true intelligence can only be seen in someone who can do physics/math as well.

ALSO! I see a lot of people talking about physics and engineering being the toughest UG degrees? No love (or lack thereof) for math? Advanced math is almost completely theoretical. To quote my buddy who is now in a PhD program for math, "I knew I was in trouble when the books I was buying didn't have numbers in them anymore".

 

[bamtuba]

LOL!

agreed. The handful of guys you chose were very intelligent. They are much more intelligent than I, I have never claimed to be a genius.

Newton and Einstein were also very intelligent.

What I am saying is at college today. If I were to gather 1000 music majors and 1000 physics majors with 3.8+ GPAs across the US, I sure you would find a large gap in intelligence. In fact, I'm sure the music majors would even admit this.
I like this guy's post from another thread about MCAT/science majors:

He is smarter than me and explains the idea better, he is talking about bio vs physics but I think this applies to many other majors. Although literature can be challenging too.




I can't blame you for thinking how you do. You are a freshman in college and have much to learn, and a lot of humbling ahead of you.

Well, there was a point made earlier about Kobe playing basketball and a fourth grader playing basketball. Music is the same way.

A whole lotta people "play" music.

And even more "musicians" make millions (ie. Spears).

If I were in your position though, I would be careful making broad generalizations about the IQ of those in differing fields.

I personally am a musician, who after studying for 2 years (no math or science since HS 10 years prior, and even then minimal amounts) was able to score in about the 85th percentile against all of those "brilliant" science majors through the MCAT (10 weeks of study with examkrackers home study, took the damned thing once) and do really well with these "oh so hard" science classes.

I would take a physics exam over a "pass or get kicked out of school, no matter your GPA" sophomore year jury at Eastman any day of the week. 👍

Food for thought:

http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

Note from the above link the section that lists Gardner's "multiple intelligences." It ain't all school smarts kids.

Oh, and Mozart was brilliant. Pool shark and all around "rock star." Just sayin'.

 

[Handy388]

LOL this is totally true. I was a physics major in undergrad and all of our exams in the quantum class were open book and open notes. In fact, when our professor told us about the exam, he was like you can bring whatever resources you want into the exam except for using other people or anything computer more advanced than Ti89... then he chuckled. People would come in with piles of textbooks and multiple calculators. The averages on the exams were still below 60...

In med school, acing everything would be rediculously easy if I had the textbook and course notes in front of me. This is the difference between memorizing and thinking.

providing you can find what you need out of the 1500+ pages of big robbins.

 

[mrivera]

I have a 3.99 GPA in undergrad, and I am most likely the laziest student at my University. I am not intelligent(i am actually just plain book smart), and I am pretty sure that I will get kicked out of Med school if i don't fix my work habits. The only issue is that I just cant sit down in a library for more than 30 minutes........... any advice?

 

[artx2008]

I have a 3.99 GPA in undergrad, and I am most likely the laziest student at my University. I am not intelligent(i am actually just plain book smart), and I am pretty sure that I will get kicked out of Med school if i don't fix my work habits. The only issue is that I just cant sit down in a library for more than 30 minutes........... any advice?

Don't sit in the library. Try to study at home. I don't know why, but I can't study in the library as well.

 

[mrivera]

Don't sit in the library. Try to study at home. I don't know why, but I can't study in the library as well.

Thanks.

 

[tncekm]

I think this depends on your undergrad major. I know physics majors who went to med school and said it was a piece of cake compared to undergrad.

A physics major and being in med school are apples and oranges. There is a minimal amount of overlap in classes like physio and biochem, but overall they are very different and performance and/or view of the level of difficulty in med school most likely cannot be reliably predicted based on ones major.

If you're lucky enough to be accepted, you'll see.

providing you can find what you need out of the 1500+ pages of big robbins.

Exactly. Again, physics/math/etc and med school are apples and oranges. I personally find those conceptual classes to be much easier b/c they require very little memorization. Therefore, the faster you can understand a concept the faster you learn it. This is much different from being required to do tons of rote memorization and then determine the significance of what you memorized on your own, then apply it to a conceptual question (med school). I don't think the work at med school has (yet) been difficult, but the volume more than makes up for that, and believe it (non-specifically directed at pre-meds), they do challenge us conceptually!

 

[tncekm]

Don't sit in the library. Try to study at home. I don't know why, but I can't study in the library as well.

I'd give the opposite advice b/c I can't study at home. LOL. I skip classes almost every day, but I'm not at home when I study... I'll go to a barnes and noble or something.

 

[SparkleMotion]

Actually, lets be realistic here.

In order to be the best, you're going to have to make sacrifices. Here's what I want you to do:

Starting showering only once per week, and for a maximum of 4-5 minutes, or 7-8 if you have an assistant that can laminate your notes for you - you CAN'T be wasting time and this give you an additional ~30 minutes per week.

As far as eating goes, you're going to need to almost entirely cut back. I want you to buy a runner gel fanny pack and fill it to the brim. At the end of every 20 hr study session (you'll be staying awake for 48 hours at a time) I want you to pop a gel open and take 15 seconds to enjoy it. You'll also need a camel pack so you can hands-free hydrate - you don't want to die, that's a big study time waster.

Finally, like I mentioned earlier, you'll be studying in 20 hours blocks and staying awake for 48 hours at a time. At the end of that 48 hours you can sleep - not to exceed 2.5 hours.

If you pull this off it's reasonable to say that you may make the top 10% of your class. If you attempt this and fail to make the top of the class, let me know and we can talk robotics.

 

[crestfall]

I agree with the notion that the amount of studying you will need to do in medical school depends on your natural aptitude toward the subjects you or studying and how good you are at memorizing things.

let me first apoligize for not make an informed or serious attempt addressing the original posters question becuz im in my undergrad still.

on another note, im a biochem major. i have taken genetics and the chemistry majors physical chemistry sequence and the "engineering" calculus based physics sequence.

So i think i am qualified to address the bio versus physics major issue atleast to some extent. one of my friends is a math grad student and another is a physics major and we actually talk about this often, but in a more non confrontational inquisitive manner.

I think the idea that a physics major is better at critical thinking and a bio major is better at memorizing things is a legitimate claim at the undergrad level.

But i do not think this generalization bears much weight if you try and compare say a molecular biologist versus a quantum chemist at the graduate level, or say at the academic researcher level.

I think that both of them are trying to figure out how things work in exciting and new uncharted territory in both of there fields. It took a lot of insight to put together the pieces of the puzzle behind the idea of genetic inheritance being linked to alleles of a gene on a chromosome. c'mon that was quite an insightful observation Mendel had, although he didnt phrase it like that. I think that involved some valuable "critical thinking" and huge leaps of thought.

Also, physicist dont understand at all how and why gravity works. they just know that things fall at about 9.8 m/s/s. so in a way arnt they just observing a fact and taking it at face value, or dare I say memorizing it and then trying to come up with a way to unite with electromagnitizm , and strong nuclear force, and sum other forth force i forget try to come up with a theory that explains everything, called string theory.

Biology is way way younger than math and physics. Those subjects are deeply understood at the undergrad level and therefor are presented in a way where you are expected to put the pieces together yourself becuz the theories are explained so well, and years of math since elementary have prepared to manipulate physics equations using algebra to draw insightful inferences will doing practice problems at the end of the book.

Biology on the other hand, you need organic chemistry and biochemistry to understand what the enzymes are really doing on a mechanistic level. last time i checked organic chemistry was not taught in elementary school. so biology cant help itself but to be taught at a "here this is what happens, forget about why it happens, either you do not have the background to understand or I do not even know" kind of basis.

In 100 years when biology is understood in a more intuitive level then it too will be taught in a more challenging critical thinking kind of way, becuz it will be understood better, it will be taught better and becuz of that it will be tested in a more challenging critical thinking type manner" or atleast i believe so.

as for now physics is more critical thinking based than bio is atleast at the undergrad level. but at the grad level where you are desiging experiments, i think the critical thinking involved in the respective fields is maybe not equal definite on par with each other depending on the lab .

sorry for the long post, i hope some reads it and has interesting things to say, i might have been inaccurate in my string theory reference,

but i from what i remember it involves uniting electromagnetism, gravity and strong nuclear force and a forth force in a "single unified thoery"

 

[dokein]

Exactly what I'm talking about, I didn't know they actually did that😀

If you can have any resources you want and still have 60% exam averages then it goes to show that the class involves difficult thinking!

This is all I've been saying. My physiology/biology classes with a textbook and notes would have 99.5% averages.

Several of my biology classes at UCLA were open book/open notes, and the test averages ranged from 30-70%. Yeah, 30%.

As for fields like philosophy, yes it's possible to get away without any sort of difficult logical understanding, which is a major criticism of the major and how it is taught. But that's not necessarily a criticism of the subject:you should know the scientific revolution arose as a result of many centuries of philosophical questioning, and many early scientists were also philosophers.

Even within the physical sciences, it's possible to get away without thinking. A few of my friends who were physics majors basically did every problem in the book and encountered most problem types the teacher could test on rather than truly understand the equation. That's why really good graduate programs in the hard sciences, like good biology programs, don't really care about GPA but rather look at research, etc.

I know what you mean in terms of physics and mathematics typically requiring more critical thinking than rote memorization in order to do well, and biology typically less so, and philosophy being typically easier to bull****, due to how it's taught in most schools, but I also think you're over generalizing and overextending your argument.