how much marks will be needed in step 1 to get into dermat program for IMG? ?

[adi11]

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Hi
i m a freshly IMG n i m interested in doing dermatology in united states , i know its a very competitive field and there are very rare chances for international students to get in this field but still can someone please help me with how much marks will be needed in step 1 to get into dermat program ?

 

[PMPMD]

Hi
i m a freshly IMG n i m interested in doing dermatology in united states , i know its a very competitive field and there are very rare chances for international students to get in this field but still can someone please help me with how much marks will be needed in step 1 to get into dermat program ?

According to data from the NRMP, independent applicants (which includes IMGs) with the highest step 1 scores (>260) only had a 60% chance of matching (and that only includes those who were ranked, meaning they had to get at least one interview.) So the real probability is lower. Therefore you need to do as well as you possibly can. See full reference below.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

 

[shan564]

Plus, you'd have to have some great rec letters in the field to even get yourself an interview. A lot of IMGs come in with the impression that a certain score will be all you need to get into a competitive program, but they'll be looking at a lot more than that. Of those people with a 250-260 who got into derm, I can imagine that a lot of them were probably practicing dermatologists in their home countries. Plus, "independent applicants" includes anybody other than US seniors, so a lot of those people are probably Americans who took some time off to do a master's or PhD with an emphasis in dermatology.


If you're really bent on dermatology, you might have a better chance if you try to get into a transitional year program first... you could probably do that with a 230-240. That'll give you a while to do some derm rotations and get to know some of attendings who could help you get into derm as a PGY2.

 

[adi11]

According to data from the NRMP, independent applicants (which includes IMGs) with the highest step 1 scores (>260) only had a 60% chance of matching (and that only includes those who were ranked, meaning they had to get at least one interview.) So the real probability is lower. Therefore you need to do as well as you possibly can. See full reference below.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

@ PMPMD thank you so much for the info just one more doubt what does " they had to get at least one interview" means can u please explain and also if i do dermat residency from my home country do i still have to pass usmle (with such high scores) for doing fellowship in united states?

 

[ArcGurren]

It is very, very hard for IMGs to get into dermatology residency in the united states; it's already one of the toughest residencies to apply to for US students alone (something like a 60% match rate as someone said previously).

To whoever said trying to get into a prelim and then match dermatology would be a way to do it... unlikely, as prelims have an even lower match rate than US seniors when applying for categorical residencies within their own programs, let alone categorical programs for dermatology.

I would be more realistic about your expectations. I know an IMG student who had to apply for medical school and redo his 3rd and 4th year here as well as accrue research before applying for dermatology residency - and even THAT's going to be tough.

 

[PMPMD]

@ PMPMD thank you so much for the info just one more doubt what does " they had to get at least one interview" means can u please explain and also if i do dermat residency from my home country do i still have to pass usmle (with such high scores) for doing fellowship in united states?

I'm referring to the data in the Charting Outcomes report by the NRMP. Since they report on match outcomes, the numbers only apply to candidates who participated in the match. A person must have at least one rank (and therefore have had at least one interview) to participate in the match.

The USMLE may not be required for the fellowship match.

 

[shan564]

The USMLE may not be required for the fellowship match.

You still have to pass it.

 

[PMPMD]

You still have to pass it.

Oh yeah guess I forgot about the whole licensing thing.

 

[adi11]

You still have to pass it.

so this means if i have to practice in US i need to pass USMLE ... so if i have done my MD DERMAT in my home country and want to practice in US do i have to again do my MD from US ?

 

[Phloston]

According to data from the NRMP, independent applicants (which includes IMGs) with the highest step 1 scores (>260) only had a 60% chance of matching (and that only includes those who were ranked, meaning they had to get at least one interview.) So the real probability is lower. Therefore you need to do as well as you possibly can. See full reference below.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

To be honest, that IMG data is so painfully variable and confounded that it's best to just look at the US Seniors' data for accurate figures.

Chances are, if an IMG attained a 260+, which is clearly 2SD above the mean (>97.5%tile), there must be significant reasoning as to why he or she would not match. Keep in mind, as an IMG, the importance of research is tremendous, as is having obtained letters of recommendation from 2 or 3 visiting clerkships in the US.

Those with astounding USMLE scores not having matched must not have had the research or the US clerkship letters. It's as simple as that. It's like the Yankees having had acquired Hideki Matsui from Japan years ago. These top residencies, as traditional as some may be, aren't myopic, and are looking for the best in the world, and if you have the credentials you have just as good of a chance. It's more than likely that a substantial proportion of IMGs just simply don't have more than good board scores, and unfortunately the IMG application rides on more than just the USMLE. If you want derm, get your 260, some recs from 2 or 3 visiting clerkships, and if you have three or four years to spare, a PhD if you're really passionate.

 

[Phloston]

I've done some additional reading.

Firstly, the statistics that are listed regarding applicants who had matched vs not-matched are with respect to applicants' preferred specialty; meaning: data that shows applicants with 250 or 260+ not having matched doesn't mean that they didn't match anywhere, it just means they didn't match into the specialty that they had listed as #1.

The other thing (and more importantly), notice the pages regarding the # of contiguous rankings. "Contiguous rankings" is defined as the # of consecutive rankings listed within the preferred specialty (i.e. if you listed derm residencies as your top three and then listed a strong surgery program as the fourth, derm is the preferred specialty and the # of contiguous rankings = 3). For derm, this is p.33 of that document. Notice that very very few IMGs listed more than three contiguous rankings within their preferred specialty, whereas many American seniors listed more than sixteen! This simply demonstrates that poorer IMG matching rates into preferred specialties are strongly dependent on the # of residencies applied to within those specialties. Matching statistics for IMGs is based on, overall, fewer residencies having been applied to compared to US Seniors, so of course the matching rates are lower for IMGs, irrespective of USMLE scores.

That's a good document that's been posted, but once again, the pages listing info on # of contiguous rankings translates into your odds of obtaining your preferred specialty as not disadvantaged insofar as you list many residency programs on your rank-order list for that specialty.

 

[adi11]

To be honest, that IMG data is so painfully variable and confounded that it's best to just look at the US Seniors' data for accurate figures.

Chances are, if an IMG obtained a 260+, which is clearly 2SD above the mean (>97.5%tile), there must be significant reasoning as to why he or she would not match. Keep in mind, as an IMG, the importance of research is tremendous, as is having obtained letters of recommendation from 2 or 3 visiting clerkships in the US.

Those with astounding USMLE scores not having matched must not have had the research or the US clerkship letters. It's as simple as that. It's like the Yankees having had acquired Hideki Matsui from Japan years ago. These top residencies, as traditional as some may be, aren't myopic, and are looking for the best in the world, and if you have the credentials you have just as good of a chance. It's more than likely that a substantial proportion of IMGs just simply don't have more than good board scores, and unfortunately the IMG application rides on more than just the USMLE. If you want derm, get your 260, some recs from 2 or 3 visiting clerkships, and if you have three or four years to spare, a PhD if you're really passionate.

so u meant to say that i should do my MD dermat from my home country n then go for fellowship / PhD in US ....

 

[Phloston]

so u meant to say that i should do my MD dermat from my home country n then go for fellowship / PhD in US ....

I don't know what you're asking. Could you please re-word that?

Firstly, I was being half-facetious about doing a PhD. Only ever do that if you are passionate about doing that, not just for the sake of residency.

Secondly, it just occurred to me another reason why match rates might be lower than anticipated:

Let's say you want general surgery but get a 260. It's possible that some applicants might just throw Harvard Plastics at the top just to tend boundaries, followed by general surgery programs subsequently. That being said, plastics would be the preferred specialty and #contiguous rankings would = 1. So yet again, if this top applicant didn't get into Harvard Plastics, which by all means it's probably more likely to get hit by lightening than get that position, he or she technically would not have matched, as per the statistics in that document, even if he or she got his or her second rank-order choice of gen surg.

Hope that clears things up.

Look at the statistical data. That is your guide, not I nor anyone else here.

 

[adi11]

I don't know what you're asking. Could you please re-word that?

Firstly, I was being half-facetious about doing a PhD. Only ever do that if you are passionate about doing that, not just for the sake of residency.

Secondly, it just occurred to me another reason why match rates might be lower than anticipated:

Let's say you want general surgery but get a 260. It's possible that some applicants might just throw Harvard Plastics at the top just to tend boundaries, followed by general surgery programs subsequently. That being said, plastics would be the preferred specialty and #contiguous rankings would = 1. So yet again, if this top applicant didn't get into Harvard Plastics, which by all means it's probably more likely to get hit by lightening than get that position, he or she technically would not have matched, as per the statistics in that document, even if he or she got his or her second rank-order choice of gen surg.

Hope that clears things up.

Look at the statistical data. That is your guide, not I nor anyone else here.

sorry i kind of misunderstood what you told about PhD but thanks a lot for the information lots of things got cleared in my mind .... other than this what i wanted to ask was if i do DERMAT residency from my home country but in future wants to practice in US..... do i have to again do my MD(residency) from US ?

 

[Chirurg]

sorry i kind of misunderstood what you told about PhD but thanks a lot for the information lots of things got cleared in my mind .... other than this what i wanted to ask was if i do DERMAT residency from my home country but in future wants to practice in US..... do i have to again do my MD(residency) from US ?

apart from doing a fellowship, nobody can practice in the US without a residency.
only exception is, you are world famous and get an institutional license from a hospital and can only practic in that hospital.

 

[shan564]

I think there's some confusion here with terminology. In India, "MD" is awarded in a particular specialty after you've finished your residency and "MBBS" is awarded after medical school. In the US, "MD" is awarded after medical school.

I think the OP would benefit from reading a bit more about the American medical education system before looking at these sorts of specifics.

 

[adi11]

I think there's some confusion here with terminology. In India, "MD" is awarded in a particular specialty after you've finished your residency and "MBBS" is awarded after medical school. In the US, "MD" is awarded after medical school.

I think the OP would benefit from reading a bit more about the American medical education system before looking at these sorts of specifics.

thanks a lot 🙂 i wasnt aware of this

 

[jatt12]

Don't bother it's hard