How much of a pay cut do you think we will see in the future...

[Silent Cool]

http://vision.dentistry.vcu.edu/files/2012/09/ISDS-Leadership-Conference-April-2012-041112-1.pptx

Nice data.

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[753698]

I actually forgot two other things that are relevant.

One is that some people assert that dental insurance is going to just go away in time. It's really not "insurance", it's a benefit that offsets costs. And in the contact sport that is health care policy today, many employers are being so squeezed by the rising cost of medical insurance that they are going to negotiate away the dental part just to save that last dollar or two.

This of course would work in our favor. But whether it happens or not, we can fight back right now. Like several practices around the country, we created our own insurance for patients. It's not really "insurance" either but it rewards people for compliance and for coming to our practice. Preventive and diagnostic care is all "covered" when they pay a yearly fee, which costs less than if they just came in. And most procedures are reduced 20%, with 10% on implants and Invisalign due to our higher outside costs. I can go into more detail if anyone wants. This is mainly intended for new patients but our existing patients are welcome to subscribe as well. And people love it, they just love it.

Then there is the inescapable fact that when people delay necessary dental treatment, it only gets worse, more painful (physically and esthetically), and more expensive. It's a shame but there is no escaping it. Rather than re-write everything allow me to link to a post I did on it:

http://rickwilsondmd.typepad.com/rick_wilson_dmds_blog/2010/12/dental-economics-101-from-the-patients-standpoint.html.

I write for patient's viewpoint so it's elementary but these are important things for us to be thinking about.

The upshot is, we're all just about to get really really busy. After all, the economy tanked in 2008, things have been building in the mouths of the non-compliant especially in terms of caries and its effects. Still, my practice and many thousands of others are busy already because we aren't part of a vast corporate system and we have not commoditized people. That is, and always will be, dentistry's great advantage. And so my view is- no pay cut at all..

Wait are you serious that dental insurance is actually going to be gone? I know I'm 6 years late but I've not been hearing that news at all. I mean that would be great for us dentists because then everything becomes FFS right?

 

[BluntForceTrauma]

Wait are you serious that dental insurance is actually going to be gone? I know I'm 6 years late but I've not been hearing that news at all. I mean that would be great for us dentists because then everything becomes FFS right?..

Reviving loooooong dead threads.

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[DOC YANKEM]

Judging on the past trends, we can only say that dental insurance is getting worse especially delta. It doesn’t help when most of the upper management of ADA have huge ties to Delta. In a perfect world, everyone would pay out of pocket in cash or credit cards. For now, we have to consider the patient’s dependence on insurance. I believe FFS is an easier way of calculating production and net profits since every office has different overhead costs.


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[753698]

Judging on the past trends, we can only say that dental insurance is getting worse especially delta. It doesn’t help when most of the upper management of ADA have huge ties to Delta. In a perfect world, everyone would pay out of pocket in cash or credit cards. For now, we have to consider the patient’s dependence on insurance. I believe FFS is an easier way of calculating production and net profits since every office has different overhead costs.


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That's rough. Maybe as the economy gets better there will be less of a dependence on insurance since people can afford to pay out of pocket? I dunno just throwing darts here..

 

[321931]

That's rough. Maybe as the economy gets better there will be less of a dependence on insurance since people can afford to pay out of pocket? I dunno just throwing darts here..

The economy technically is better. It's literally at its peak right now. People are making good money, jobs and growth is good, housing has recovered....and yet all my patients, who live in an affluent area...and have great jobs, still don't want to pay out of pocket.

Why would anyone want to pay out of pocket? Dentistry is not a necessity. People will wait til the next benefit year if they max out on a root canal to get the crown done. It's always going to be that way.

 

[753698]

The economy technically is better. It's literally at its peak right now. People are making good money, jobs and growth is good, housing has recovered....and yet all my patients, who live in an affluent area...and have great jobs, still don't want to pay out of pocket.

Why would anyone want to pay out of pocket? Dentistry is not a necessity. People will wait til the next benefit year if they max out on a root canal to get the crown done. It's always going to be that way.

Was it just that insurance wasn't as prominent back in the day when most practices used to run on FFS?

 

[321931]

Was it just that insurance wasn't as prominent back in the day when most practices used to run on FFS?

Perhaps but insurance is here to stay...

You can go oon/ffs but why would a patient pay 30% more when they can come see me and get the same thing at a discount?

 

[753698]

Perhaps but insurance is here to stay...

You can go oon/ffs but why would a patient pay 30% more when they can come see me and get the same thing at a discount?

Do you think a good solution would be to offer discounts through the practice itself? Like membership discounts etc. I've heard of some offices implementing this.

It seems like a scenario in which both the patient and the dentist benefit. The patient gets more affordable care and the dentist doesn't get hit with lower reimbursements.

 

[Drifter_]

Why would patients wanna enroll in a membership plan at your office when they get dental insurances from their companies like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, ect... which give amazing discount that applies to many different dental offices. If they enroll in your membership plan, they only get discount at your office, they are stuck with you. They wanna shop around, find the cheapest one, the most convenient, the closest dental office to their home. If all of a sudden they wanna change office, they already waste their $$ on your membership plan. Dental insurances provided by those companies are pretty cheap anyways.


Meanwhile, dentists have to accept insurance because if you don't someone else will and you'll lose patients. We have an oversupply of dentists yet the government still think we have an access to care problem. More schools being opened every year and tuition rising will lead to more desperate dentists willing to work for pennies. This will only benefit insurance companies and dental corps.

 

[allantois]

Why would patients wanna enroll in a membership plan at your office when they get dental insurances from their companies like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, ect... which give amazing discount that applies to many different dental offices. If they enroll in your membership plan, they only get discount at your office, they are stuck with you. They wanna shop around, find the cheapest one, the most convenient, the closest dental office to their home. If all of a sudden they wanna change office, they already waste their $$ on your membership plan. Dental insurances provided by those companies are pretty cheap anyways.


Meanwhile, dentists have to accept insurance because if you don't someone else will and you'll lose patients. We have an oversupply of dentists yet the government still think we have an access to care problem. More schools being opened every year and tuition rising will lead to more desperate dentists willing to work for pennies. This will only benefit insurance companies and dental corps.

It’s not like government regulates the supply of dental schools. Blame the poor foresight and leadership of ADA, not to mention their ties to Delta Dental.

 

[321931]

Do you think a good solution would be to offer discounts through the practice itself? Like membership discounts etc. I've heard of some offices implementing this.

It seems like a scenario in which both the patient and the dentist benefit. The patient gets more affordable care and the dentist doesn't get hit with lower reimbursements.

The fact is that DSO/large group chains have higher buying power, more power to negotiate with insurance companies, and the small solo owner cannot compete.

Look at the food industry. Your mom and pop shops are a dying breed.

Do you think your local pizza store can compete with Corporate Giants? No.

But there are gourmet pizza stores with 1000 yelp reviews that will be fine.

Dentistry is heading the same way. There will be small practices that are gourmet and will do fine...but the ones in the middle that aren't gourmet and rather bland...just normal practice that do fillings/crowns...will most likely be left behind to the point where owning isn't worth it anymore.

So where will all the graduates go? To work at Dominoes...but if you are lucky...you might end up in a partnership with some gourmet pizza shop and make good money.

 

[753698]

The fact is that DSO/large group chains have higher buying power, more power to negotiate with insurance companies, and the small solo owner cannot compete.

Look at the food industry. Your mom and pop shops are a dying breed.

Do you think your local pizza store can compete with Corporate Giants? No.

But there are gourmet pizza stores with 1000 yelp reviews that will be fine.

Dentistry is heading the same way. There will be small practices that are gourmet and will do fine...but the ones in the middle that aren't gourmet and rather bland...just normal practice that do fillings/crowns...will most likely be left behind to the point where owning isn't worth it anymore.

So where will all the graduates go? To work at Dominoes...but if you are lucky...you might end up in a partnership with some gourmet pizza shop and make good money.

By gourmet do you mean concierge dentistry? The whole white glove/cosmetic side of dentistry?

I mean if that's what bring in business, then that is what brings in business!