How much of an effect does being URM do for an application?

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sliceofbread136 said:
I'm not anti-urm advantage at all, I just think the reasons behind aren't as glorious as others are saying.
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of course the reason is not glorious, you are absolutely right. med schools responds more to LCME's influence and public perceptions. if you think a urm doctor is more likely to go back to the ghetto and serve his neighborhood, you are also right. but i wouldnt bet anything on it. chances are he is getting his family and his business out of there as soon as he made it; same thing can be said about the kid who is raised in the middle of nowhere. the only real solution to solve the underserved physician problems in some area is to improve the location itself: populate/urbanize the rural area, uplifting the ghettos.
all in all, i am sure the number of applicant getting their decision changed because of their urm status is relatively low. arguing about urm is nitpicking the process.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
How many people actually really care about the race of their doctor? I've never meet anyone who cared...

Next time I'm at the doctor's office I'm going to insist I get a white doctor. I wonder how that will turn out.
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How much clinical experience do you have? I can't even keep track of how often I hear, "I want a Filipino doctor, I want a Chinese doctor, I want a Mexican doctor, I want a Black doctor....etc."

It's about trust and communication.

The people that kept the Tuskegee syphilus studies active decades after penicillin was discovered were also ORMs who wanted to work with minorities. I mean that only ended in 1972. That's only 40 years ago that White doctors were using African-Americans as guinea pigs. They still are in other countries by our own pharma companies.
 
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tn4596 said:
of course the reason is not glorious, you are absolutely right. med schools responds more to LCME's influence and public perceptions. if you think a urm doctor is more likely to go back to the ghetto and serve his neighborhood, you are also right. but i wouldnt bet anything on it. chances are he is getting his family and his business out of there as soon as he made it; same thing can be said about the kid who is raised in the middle of nowhere. the only real solution to solve the underserved physician problems in some area is to improve the location itself: populate/urbanize the rural area, uplifting the ghettos.
all in all, i am sure the number of applicant getting their decision changed because of their urm status is relatively low. arguing about urm is nitpicking the process.
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I absolutely agree with this. I think that in the meantime, however, URM helps meet a need.
 
MuAgonist said:
How much clinical experience do you have? I can't even keep track of how often I hear, "I want a Filipino doctor, I want a Chinese doctor, I want a Mexican doctor, I want a Black doctor....etc."

It's about trust and communication.

The people that kept the Tuskegee syphilus studies active decades after penicillin was discovered were also ORMs who wanted to work with minorities. I mean that only ended in 1972. That's only 40 years ago that White doctors were using African-Americans as guinea pigs. They still are in other countries by our own pharma companies.
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I've got about 300 hours, not including the large amounts of time I spent in the hospital for a family member. I've never heard it :shrug:
 
MuAgonist said:
So you don't think white people avoid minority doctors?
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My pcp is black, my ob gyn is asian, and my ent is Latina. Haha, actually never thoight about that before.


No, and those that do need to get over their racism...kind of like the minorities who avoid white docs......
 
Sandstorm said:
My pcp is black, my ob gyn is asian, and my ent is Latina. Haha, actually never thoight about that before.


No, and those that do need to get over their racism...kind of like the minorities who avoid white docs......
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You play very fast and loose with your definition of racism.
 
Sandstorm said:
Pre judging someone due to their race...

Ie refusing a doctor of a certain race...
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I would not go with that definition. Is it, for example, racist for a minority individual to avoid a white physician because of a previous personal experience of belittling by a white physician?

I would say no.
 
wolfie77 said:
I would not go with that definition. Is it, for example, racist for a minority individual to avoid a white physician because of a previous personal experience of belittling by a white physician?

I would say no.
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By that same logic it would not be racist for me to say Asians are terrible drivers because of a previous experience with a terrible driver who happened to be Asian.
 
wolfie77 said:
I would not go with that definition. Is it, for example, racist for a minority individual to avoid a white physician because of a previous personal experience of belittling by a white physician?

I would say no.
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"It's not racist to judge someone by their race because you had a bad experience with someone of their race."
 
Sandstorm said:
By that same logic it would not be racist for me to say Asians are terrible drivers because of a previous experience with a terrible driver who happened to be Asian.
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It would be analogous. But then again, there's that global history of subjugation of other groups by people who happened to have been white. The reality in our world is that racism happens to be a white-at-the-top system. So, in my example, the belittlement + history leads to a situation of racism.
 
wolfie77 said:
It would be analogous. But then again, there's that global history of subjugation of other groups by people who happened to have been white. The reality in our world is that racism happens to be a white-at-the-top system. So, in my example, the belittlement + history leads to a situation of racism.
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I just find it sooooooo funny how people continually say... It's ok for URMs to be racist towards ORMs, but if the opposite happens its a huuuuuge deal.


...something about having cake, eating cake, and not being able to do both....
 
Sandstorm said:
I just find it sooooooo funny how people continually say... It's ok for URMs to be racist towards ORMs, but if the opposite happens its a huuuuuge deal.


...something about having cake, eating cake, and not being able to do both....
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Side bar, I do wonder how I'm supposed to eat cake if I don't first have cake.
 
Sandstorm said:
I just find it sooooooo funny how people continually say... It's ok for URMs to be racist towards ORMs, but if the opposite happens its a huuuuuge deal.


...something about having cake, eating cake, and not being able to do both....
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It's uncomfortable man but this is the reality of our situation in the world. I mean, let's take as an example the word "minority." In this country, it's sometimes assumed that "minorities" are not as well off because they are not in power (i.e. the majority). But if you take a look at a country like South Africa, the majority group was under apartheid by the minority group. That minority was white. So it's not the simple fact that relative proportions in a population matter, it's whiteness that matters. Whiteness = power. This is the aspect that is missing from your analysis.
 
wolfie77 said:
It's uncomfortable man but this is the reality of our situation in the world. I mean, let's take as an example the word "minority." In this country, it's sometimes assumed that "minorities" are not as well off because they are not in power (i.e. the majority). But if you take a look at a country like South Africa, the majority group was under apartheid by the minority group. That minority was white. So it's not the simple fact that relative proportions in a population matter, it's whiteness that matters. Whiteness = power. This is the aspect that is missing from your analysis.
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Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the definition of racism, so please grasp at some loose threads and do your best to tie this post into that discussion.

K thanks.
 
Sandstorm said:
Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the definition of racism, so please grasp at some loose threads and do your best to tie this post into that discussion.

K thanks.
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I was trying to explain to you why the situation with the Asian driver was a different type of situation (with respect to racism) compared to the situation with the white physician.

I was trying to incorporate power dynamics into the understanding of racism prevalent in this thread.
 
Sandstorm said:
Wait, I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the definition of racism, so please grasp at some loose threads and do your best to tie this post into that discussion.

K thanks.
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Dude it's rly simple. Let me re-explain it for you:

You can only be racist if you are white.
 
Sandstorm said:
I think this is what he was getting at and let me re-explain this..

That. Is. Obnoxiously. Idiotic.
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I told you it was uncomfortable. But just bc you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

Racism, on our planet, is a white-at-the-top enterprise. It could have been some other way, but for historical reasons it ended up this way.

Now, that doesn't mean that a non-white can't be hateful or discriminatory against a white person, but that doesn't make it racism.
 
wolfie77 said:
I told you it was uncomfortable. But just bc you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

Racism, on our planet, is a white-at-the-top enterprise. It could have been some other way, but for historical reasons it ended up this way.

Now, that doesn't mean that a non-white can't be hateful or discriminatory against a white person, but that doesn't make it racism.
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THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MAKES IT. Oh this argument is over because you can't think logically
 
wolfie77 said:
I told you it was uncomfortable. But just bc you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

Racism, on our planet, is a white-at-the-top enterprise. It could have been some other way, but for historical reasons it ended up this way.

Now, that doesn't mean that a non-white can't be hateful or discriminatory against a white person, but that doesn't make it racism.
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Actually it is, despite whatever convoluted definition of racism you may be using.
 
Sandstorm said:
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MAKES IT. Oh this argument is over because you can't think logically
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....or perhaps because you don't accept the realities of what racism looks like in our world.
 
wolfie77 said:
....or perhaps because you don't accept the realities of what racism looks like in our world.
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Well, until someone other than Wolfie wishes to discuss this, I'm off to have this argument with my 8 year old niece, it's sure to be more intellectual than this one.
 
Have you guys ever seen that funny Louis CK stand-up bit where he mentions that there is nothing that you can call a white person that would even hurt his feelings?

^This has to do with the power dynamics at work in our society. There is virtually nothing you can do to a white man, based on his race, that can be hurtful because of the reality of racial power dynamics.
 
wolfie77 said:
Have you guys ever seen that funny Louis CK stand-up bit where he mentions that there is nothing that you can call a white person that would even hurt his feelings?

^This has to do with the power dynamics at work in our society. There is virtually nothing you can do to a white man, based on his race, that can be hurtful because of the reality of racial power dynamics.
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Now it makes sense..,

You take points of your argument from a stand up comic.

Ahahahah. I'm positively tickled. Keep em coming !
 
wolfie77 said:
I told you it was uncomfortable. But just bc you don't like it, doesn't make it untrue.

Racism, on our planet, is a white-at-the-top enterprise. It could have been some other way, but for historical reasons it ended up this way.

Now, that doesn't mean that a non-white can't be hateful or discriminatory against a white person, but that doesn't make it racism.
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I didn't know that there were actually people that thought this way.
 
Sandstorm said:
Well, until someone other than Wolfie wishes to discuss this, I'm off to have this argument with my 8 year old niece, it's sure to be more intellectual than this one.
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The weird thing here is that you're the one (metaphorically) covering your ears and yelling LALALALALA., rather than engaging or thinking about what I said. I realize that the conclusion of my analysis is probably uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it any less true or logical.
 
wolfie77 said:
The weird thing here is that you're the one (metaphorically) covering your ears and yelling LALALALALA., rather than engaging or thinking about what I said. I realize that the conclusion of my analysis is probably uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it any less true or logical.
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No, not at all what I'm doing, I'm waiting for you to make a point that isn't absolutely redonculous and actually deserves to be engaged.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
Yes that random website overrides the freaking dictionary. Good job.
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That "random website" is that of an organization that specializes in this area. I didn't know Mr. Webster or whoever were in the business of racism studies.
 
wolfie77 said:
The weird thing here is that you're the one (metaphorically) covering your ears and yelling LALALALALA., rather than engaging or thinking about what I said. I realize that the conclusion of my analysis is probably uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it any less true or logical.
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You are the one re-defining the definition of racism to fit your own convoluted argument....
 
wolfie77 said:
That "random website" is that of an organization that specializes in this area. I didn't know Mr. Webster or whoever were in the business of racism studies.
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"mr. Webster or whoever".

*knee slap*. Oh you are FANTASTIC.
 
sliceofbread136 said:
You are the one re-defining the definition of racism to fit your own convoluted argument....
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Are you suggesting that years ago I went and made up this organization and this website so that one day I might use its definition of racism in a thread on SDN?
 
wolfie77 said:
Are you suggesting that years ago I went and made up this organization and this website so that one day I might use its definition of racism in a thread on SDN?
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I think that's exactly what is being said *nods head*

Funny; that argument would be significantly less ridiculous than most of yours
 
wolfie77 said:
That "random website" is that of an organization that specializes in this area. I didn't know Mr. Webster or whoever were in the business of racism studies.
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Ok so now that the dictionary is a bad source I'll go find some more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/racism.asp
http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/what-is-racism-faq.htm
http://www.usariseup.com/latest-news/what-is-racism

I could site enough sources for this post to have like 100 gb of data because literally every source on the internet disputes your bullcrap
 
sliceofbread136 said:
Ok so now that the dictionary is a bad source I'll go find some more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/racism.asp
http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/what-is-racism-faq.htm
http://www.usariseup.com/latest-news/what-is-racism

I could site enough sources for this post to have like 100 gb of data because literally every source on the internet disputes your bullcrap
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From the ADL link:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism.
.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is in line with what I'm saying. The source YOU CITED bolsters my argument.
.
 
wolfie77 said:
From the ADL link:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism.
.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is in line with what I'm saying. The source YOU CITED bolsters my argument.
.
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I was not aware there were no blacks or Asians or Indians in the western hemisphere. You've changed my worldview.
 
wolfie77 said:
From the ADL link:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism.
.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is in line with what I'm saying. The source YOU CITED bolsters my argument.
.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person

It had a more significant impact in history, not that discriminating a white person isn't racism. Keep being an idiot.
.
 
wolfie77 said:
From the ADL link:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism.
.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is in line with what I'm saying. The source YOU CITED bolsters my argument.
.
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Oh and way to shoot yourself in the foot...

"more significant impact THAN ANY OTHER FORM OF RACISM". So if you're suggesting westerners = whites, then your own quote suggests there are other forms of racism, ie from non- whites.
 
Sandstorm said:
I was not aware there were no blacks or Asians or Indians in the western hemisphere. You've changed my worldview.
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lolz. Note the 500-100 yrs ago part (There are no Asians or Indians in the Western hemisphere in that time period because no large migration had yet occurred.)

At least read the two paragraphs following the quote. They're talking about Europeans.
 
wolfie77 said:
lolz. Note the 500-100 yrs ago part (There are no Asians or Indians in the Western hemisphere in that time period because no large migration had yet occurred.)

At least read the two paragraphs following the quote. They're talking about Europeans.
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I posted the definition they gave. It is literally the first line on the website. Once again, stop being stupid.
 
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