How much of an effect does being URM do for an application?

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See my above post. I am not a bigot - MuAgonist is a troll who frequently joins forces with HoltMD, a penis-obsessed weirdo.

Hey, don't drag me into this endless discussion and don't hate me because I like big penises. Yours is probably difficult to find even with a microscope. :meanie:


And MuAgonist and I are NOT trolls. We just don't like bigots. 😀
 
Hey, don't drag me into this endless discussion and don't hate me because I like big penises. Yours is probably difficult to find even with a microscope. :meanie:


And MuAgonist and I are NOT trolls. We just don't like bigots. 😀

I continue to await your suggestion for which kneepads I should buy (for my upcoming hockey season).
 
tn4596 wrote:

Yeah, you are driving to the MCAT exam, or to the hospital where you are the chief of surgery, when you get pulled over by the cops who are suspicious of someone of your color driving a nice car in that neighborhood. I know, you've already told me that the cops only pull people over when the driver is doing something wrong.... Fact is, they just might suspect that the Mercedes you are driving is stolen... How does that effect your blood pressure, your timing in getting to where you need to be, your peace of mind. And if you try to go the humble route and drive an old beater, you are going to be profiled because nice people in that neighborhood don't drive those cars.

1) cops are not everywhere
2) cops are not actively trying to pull over black citizens out of spite, they probably have better things to do
3) tinted windows
You realized that you just made up a very specific hypothetical situation to rationalize your correlation? A black person was driving normally to his very important meeting. Coincidentally, a racist cop happened to be right there at the right place and position to see said black citizen driving his expensive car and decide to pull him over. This one event somehow raise said black citizen blood pressure,traumatized him which then somehow limit his ability to advance his career, maybe because he missed that one important meeting or bomb his one important test that he can't retake?
That's nice. I will play too. Question: how does a squirrel limit my future career? A: During my important meeting/presentation/whatever, a squirrel decided to sneak into the room that very same day and sabotage everything. Why couldnt it sneak in to my office any other day? My career is ruined. :d


I have heard of black professional women walking through hotels in certain cities being stopped by hotel detectives who suspected that a black woman in a high class hotel must be a hooker. How does that make you feel if as you are checking into a hotel for an interview the next day or to present your research at an annual meeting?

1)Again with the specific situation. How can said hotel survive if their detectives gave hard times to every single black persons who come there. Also, if I was in that very situation, why not just check in to another hotel, this is a very simple solution.
2) how can you be so sure that this incidence occurred solely because of the color of a person's skin? Also, life is tough and unfortunate things happen to everyone, not just blacks.
3)You also assume that many applicants and I have mental strengths that are equivalent to snow flakes and would be deeply traumatized from such experiences. "Those detectives thought I was a hooker by a mistake, so I broke down in tears in the middle of my presentation/interview." If a person cannot deal with such inconveniences, how would they perform when faced with critical life or death situation as a physicians? How can they deal with difficult patients?.


There well may be a reason why hypertension and the health consequences of it are more prevalent in the African-American community than in whites and it is not related to genetics (not seen in genetically similar populations elsewhere in the world) and controling for weight, smoking, and sodium intake.

This statement imply that society are discriminating toward black people in such a wide scale, which is hardly believable by itself. This somehow cause blacks population to faces health problems. Idk where you draw the correlation but :Yes! Blame society and blame the oppression!
I tried to refrain from debating in this topic anymore but I just couldn't. Favoritism bleeds through your posts. I see you conveniently ignored my point that Asians are getting the short end of the stick academically. Apparently, you think it's fair for someone to have their grades undermined and to end up not getting in a higher level of education, solely based on the color of his/her skin. But no no, don't nobody dare touch the AA, as their blood pressure might go up and affect their future.
 
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I'm asian, ORM, and I don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick. Grades aren't everything. The MCAT isn't everything.
 
I'm asian, ORM, and I don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick. Grades aren't everything. The MCAT isn't everything.

Said the person with 3.9/35. Your point of view will be drastically different when you are among the average applicant.
 
Said the person with 3.9/35. Your point of view will be drastically different when you are among the average applicant.

If you don't want to worry about it, then don't be an average applicant. You don't have control over how adcoms view URMs, but you do have control over your own application. Don't be average. Problem?
 
If you don't want to worry about it, then don't be an average applicant. You don't have control over how adcoms view URMs, but you do have control over your own application. Don't be average. Problem?

Are you aware that for many people, no matter how hard they work, can only get a 3.6/30? Anyway, I am really not debating URM on an individualistic basis here. If you skim through our conversation, the debate is about how discrimation is used as a justification for the current URM policies. In realities, I know URM matriculants do not take many spots from ORM. In principle,I think the current URM policies breed actual discrimination and is unfair to others groups. It's one thing to say that URM policy probably won't affect a ORM applicant's candidacy for med school and serve a need. It's another thing to justify such policy using something such as slavery or discrimination and call it fair.
 
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There well may be a reason why hypertension and the health consequences of it are more prevalent in the African-American community than in whites and it is not related to genetics (not seen in genetically similar populations elsewhere in the world) and controling for weight, smoking, and sodium intake.

I'm curious what you think this reason is.
 
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Yeah, you are driving to the MCAT exam, or to the hospital where you are the chief of surgery, when you get pulled over by the cops who are suspicious of someone of your color driving a nice car in that neighborhood. I know, you've already told me that the cops only pull people over when the driver is doing something wrong.... Fact is, they just might suspect that the Mercedes you are driving is stolen... How does that effect your blood pressure, your timing in getting to where you need to be, your peace of mind. And if you try to go the humble route and drive an old beater, you are going to be profiled because nice people in that neighborhood don't drive those cars.



....is this a real argument? I mean seriously...seriously? You had been making rational arguments up until this one. This one is just ridiculous. There would be very few AA's that claim a reason like this one is responsible for a lower MCAT.

You. are. a. joke.
 
....is this a real argument? I mean seriously...seriously? You had been making rational arguments up until this one. This one is just ridiculous. There would be very few AA's that claim a reason like this one is responsible for a lower MCAT.

You. are. a. joke.

Dude, that's all you can say. That's the same way you reacted to what I was telling you about the realities of racism. You just say everything you disagree with is "ridiculous" and "stupid" and now you're calling LizzyM a "joke."

Perhaps that kind of thing flies at Bob Jones "University" or wherever you come from but in the rest of the world you have to try a little harder.....

edit: LizzyM was asked to give an example of how police discrimination might affect URMs lives/application chances, and she gave it. It's an "example." I could tell you about situations like that in my own life and how they affected other aspects of my own life, but you'd only call me ridiculous.
 
Dude, that's all you can say. That's the same way you reacted to what I was telling you about the realities of racism. You just say everything you disagree with is "ridiculous" and "stupid" and now you're calling LizzyM a "joke."

Perhaps that kind of thing flies at Bob Jones "University" or wherever you come from but in the rest of the world you have to try a little harder.....

edit: LizzyM was asked to give an example of how police discrimination might affect URMs lives/application chances, and she gave it. It's an "example." I could tell you about situations like that in my own life and how they affected other aspects of my own life, but you'd only call me ridiculous.

I have to agree, though, as an example it added nothing of use to the discussion. It isnt really appropriate to stack hypothetical upon hypothetical.
 
Isn't your list pretty top heavy?


That was the plan. "Top schools are UAMS, UIowa, and NYU. Applying to the rest for ****s and giggles."
 
That was the plan. "Top schools are UAMS, UIowa, and NYU. Applying to the rest for ****s and giggles."

:laugh: 👍 Seriously, though, your profile is quite impressive. You'll be fine.
 
....is this a real argument? I mean seriously...seriously? You had been making rational arguments up until this one. This one is just ridiculous. There would be very few AA's that claim a reason like this one is responsible for a lower MCAT.

You. are. a. joke.

kGgLp.gif


You realize LizzyM is going to find out your identity and ban you from all schools right? There is actually is some logic to what she is describing. Living a life of greater stress could lead to hypertension.
 
Are you aware that for many people, no matter how hard they work, can only get a 3.6/30? Anyway, I am really not debating URM on an individualistic basis here. If you skim through our conversation, the debate is about how discrimation is used as a justification for the current URM policies. In realities, I know URM matriculants do not take many spots from ORM. In principle,I think the current URM policies breed actual discrimination and is unfair to others groups. It's one thing to say that URM policy probably won't affect a ORM applicant's candidacy for med school and serve a need. It's another thing to justify such policy using something such as slavery or discrimination and call it fair.

Is that right? Discrimination and the aftermath of slavery has definitively influenced the capacity for minorities communities to make progress in their socioeconomic status, education level, etc. You could easily look this up if you wanted to...
 
kGgLp.gif


You realize LizzyM is going to find out your identity and ban you from all schools right? There is actually is some logic to what she is describing. Living a life of greater stress could lead to hypertension.

Ohh yeah..... that's true..... poor guy....:meanie:
 
You are the joke. check out this link and learn something before attempting to argue reasonably.

http://www.unnaturalcauses.org/video_clips_detail.php?res_id=210

Thoughts as I watched the video:

1) They say health outcomes are better for those with higher education (such as doctors, lawyers, etc.). According to the "social justice" crusaders, then, we owe it to every man and woman to be entitled to a Doctorate degree.

2) They throw out a statistic that blacks have higher infant mortality rates than whites, when adjusted for income level, education, etc. Since they are "social scientists" and are unable to advance a credible theory for a medical phenomenon, they fall back on the intellectually lazy thesis that it is a "social milieu" that causes the "inequality."

:bullcrap: Black women who are lawyers or doctors are not leading a more "socioeconomically" stressful life than a white girl with no high school diploma.

Final note: the video looks like it was made for a 4th grade class. Are you an elementary school teacher? Otherwise, I have no idea how you stumbled upon this.
 
kGgLp.gif


You realize LizzyM is going to find out your identity and ban you from all schools right? There is actually is some logic to what she is describing. Living a life of greater stress could lead to hypertension.



Too bad I'm already in school.

I was simply saying that an example of urms getting the short end of the stick being getting pulled over on your way to take the mcat is ridiculous.
 
This is fascinating. I heard about that study in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkeAu-h3i44), but hadn't been able to find it until now.

I would recommend the video. Dr. Betancourt is a Nuyorican physician who specializes in public health work on disparties.

Oh thanks for the link....This is the kind of work I want to spend my life doing 🙂

Unnatural Causes: How inequality is making us sick is one of the most comprehensive works on inequality and health done in California.
 
Thoughts as I watched the video:

1) They say health outcomes are better for those with higher education (such as doctors, lawyers, etc.). According to the "social justice" crusaders, then, we owe it to every man and woman to be entitled to a Doctorate degree.

2) They throw out a statistic that blacks have higher infant mortality rates than whites, when adjusted for income level, education, etc. Since they are "social scientists" and are unable to advance a credible theory for a medical phenomenon, they fall back on the intellectually lazy thesis that it is a "social milieu" that causes the "inequality."

:bullcrap: Black women who are lawyers or doctors are not leading a more "socioeconomically" stressful life than a white girl with no high school diploma.

Final note: the video looks like it was made for a 4th grade class. Are you an elementary school teacher? Otherwise, I have no idea how you stumbled upon this.


That sounded like Glenn Beck's ramblings against social justice. Nobody is suggesting that they all get doctorates.

"intellectually lazy?" It, to me at least, makes sense that it must be something social if genetics and country of origin were controlled for.
 
Too bad I'm already in school.

I was simply saying that an example of urms getting the short end of the stick being getting pulled over on your way to take the mcat is ridiculous.

icon_touchdown.gif
 
That sounded like Glenn Beck's ramblings against social justice. Nobody is suggesting that they all get doctorates.

"intellectually lazy?" It, to me at least, makes sense that it must be something social if genetics and country of origin were controlled for.

Progressive radicals tend to want to "level the playing field" and destroy "inequality." I'm only following Che's philosophy to its natural conclusion.
 
Thoughts as I watched the video:

1) They say health outcomes are better for those with higher education (such as doctors, lawyers, etc.). According to the "social justice" crusaders, then, we owe it to every man and woman to be entitled to a Doctorate degree.

2) They throw out a statistic that blacks have higher infant mortality rates than whites, when adjusted for income level, education, etc. Since they are "social scientists" and are unable to advance a credible theory for a medical phenomenon, they fall back on the intellectually lazy thesis that it is a "social milieu" that causes the "inequality."

:bullcrap: Black women who are lawyers or doctors are not leading a more "socioeconomically" stressful life than a white girl with no high school diploma.

Final note: the video looks like it was made for a 4th grade class. Are you an elementary school teacher? Otherwise, I have no idea how you stumbled upon this.

I expected more from you..... your argument is full of sarcasm and insults for "social scientist" and no solid intellectual argument.... what a shame. 👎
 
Progressive radicals tend to want to "level the playing field" and destroy "inequality." I'm only following Che's philosophy to its natural conclusion.


What in the world? Now you're REALLY sounding like Glenn Beck.

Only "radicals" want fairness and equality? Damn I must be Fidel Castro.
 
I expected more from you..... your argument is full of sarcasm and insults for "social scientist" and no solid intellectual argument.... what a shame. 👎

The point is, there's no content in the video. I might as well post a video of Barney the Dinosaur and w=expect intelligent critiques.

What in the world? Now you're REALLY sounding like Glenn Beck.

Only "radicals" want fairness and equality? Damn I must be Fidel Castro.

Presumably, everyone wants fairness and equality. This means the law treats everyone equally, not that we 1) blame Whitey or 2) have government pay Robin Hood.

It's unfortunate for your "side" that conservatives are consistently shown to give more charity than liberals.
 
The point is, there's no content in the video. I might as well post a video of Barney the Dinosaur and w=expect intelligent critiques.



Presumably, everyone wants fairness and equality. This means the law treats everyone equally, not that we 1) blame Whitey or 2) have government pay Robin Hood.

It's unfortunate for your "side" that conservatives are consistently shown to give more charity than liberals.


I think I see what's going on here: You're blinded by your agenda.

What did the bolded comment have to do with anything? What is "my side?" I'm not a liberal.
 
Too bad I'm already in school.

I was simply saying that an example of urms getting the short end of the stick being getting pulled over on your way to take the mcat is ridiculous.

Ane then you had to call her a joke.
 
kGgLp.gif


You realize LizzyM is going to find out your identity and ban you from all schools right? There is actually is some logic to what she is describing. Living a life of greater stress could lead to hypertension.

Additionally, I do agree with the stress and hypertension argument. What I do not agree with is using an outlandish example such as "well URMs are more likely to get pulled over on their way to take the MCAT so this poses a distinct disadvantage for URMs getting into med school".

Also, I apologize for calling lizzym a joke, her arguments actually in general are well thought out and logical. That was an immature response on my part.

Lastly, don't threaten people saying "ohhhh you disagree with this argument and I'll make sure you don't get into med school". One, I'm already in, so it doesn't ruffle my feathers and two, I'm sure lizzym doesn't appreciate you making threats on her behalf.
 
Oh buuuuurn. You and Sandstorm must have been SO mad when Obama was elected.

...actually, I set off fireworks. I was excited...more NOT to have Biden in office than to have Obama, but I digress...
 
The point is, there's no content in the video. I might as well post a video of Barney the Dinosaur and w=expect intelligent critiques.



Presumably, everyone wants fairness and equality. This means the law treats everyone equally, not that we 1) blame Whitey or 2) have government pay Robin Hood.

It's unfortunate for your "side" that conservatives are consistently shown to give more charity than liberals.

Don't insult me calling me Liberal.

Mostly, conservatives donate to charities that fit their ideals, like the mormon church, and do not benefit society in general + they get tax reductions because of that... So in the end they benefit from it.

My point with the video, was that inequality, racism plays a role in the life of minorities. Also, are you saying that the experts from Harvard, UCLA, etc are intellectually lazy because they concluded that racism puts a burden on the biology of humans......? This is the problems with conservatives, they reject facts, data, and serious studies because it doesn't match with their political views. Don't tell me you don't believe in evolution....
 
Additionally, I do agree with the stress and hypertension argument. What I do not agree with is using an outlandish example such as "well URMs are more likely to get pulled over on their way to take the MCAT so this poses a distinct disadvantage for URMs getting into med school".

Also, I apologize for calling LizzyM a joke, her arguments actually in general are well thought out and logical. That was an immature response on my part.

Lastly, don't threaten people saying "ohhhh you disagree with this argument and I'll make sure you don't get into med school". One, I'm already in, so it doesn't ruffle my feathers and two, I'm sure lizzym doesn't appreciate you making threats on her behalf.

Why do you think someone's blood pressure might be high? Could it be because of stressful situations, like, say, the fear of getting pulled over, FOR EXAMPLE. It was an example. You just felt the need to mock the example rather than the real idea behind that example.
 
Additionally, I do agree with the stress and hypertension argument. What I do not agree with is using an outlandish example such as "well URMs are more likely to get pulled over on their way to take the MCAT so this poses a distinct disadvantage for URMs getting into med school".

Also, I apologize for calling LizzyM a joke, her arguments actually in general are well thought out and logical. That was an immature response on my part.

Lastly, don't threaten people saying "ohhhh you disagree with this argument and I'll make sure you don't get into med school". One, I'm already in, so it doesn't ruffle my feathers and two, I'm sure lizzym doesn't appreciate you making threats on her behalf.

I wasn't threatening, I was warning in you in light of making personal attacks against an adcom on website that has access to your personal contact information. It's not a threat if I too am cautious as well. You never know who works for SDN and could access your info.
 
I wasn't threatening, I was warning in you in light of making personal attacks against an adcom on website that has access to your personal contact information. It's not a threat if I too am cautious as well. You never know who works for SDN and could access your info.

*eye roll*. It was a threat. It's pretty sad that part of your argument hinges on "if you disagree with me, I'm going to make a threat ON BEHALF OF SOMEONE ELSE to have you banned from med school".

And yes, I recognize that lobo made this argument, not you.
 
When did Biden ever have a chance at being President?

Lol...my gaffe I was just reading an article about him...I meant McCain, was thinking about Biden, meant McCain and typed Biden. Durrr

*facepalm*
 
Lol...my gaffe I was just reading an article about him...I meant McCain

LOL, OK, agreed.

Edit: If it sounded threatening it was half-joking. I don't know LizzyM, and I wouldn't attack her or any high-ranking person on SDN because I'm too paranoid about somebody getting my info. I don't care if you disagree with the argument. I wasn't threatening your opinion, I was responding to the joke comment.
 
*eye roll*. It was a threat. It's pretty sad that part of your argument hinges on "if you disagree with me, I'm going to make a threat ON BEHALF OF SOMEONE ELSE to have you banned from med school".

And yes, I recognize that lobo made this argument, not you.

Dude, I wasn't threatening you....It was sarcasm... sarcasm is not easily detected in an online forum.
 
I think I see what's going on here: You're blinded by your agenda.

What did the bolded comment have to do with anything? What is "my side?" I'm not a liberal.

I assumed from the arguments you made that you support the concepts of "leveling the playing field" and equality of achievement I discussed.

Don't insult me calling me Liberal.

Mostly, conservatives donate to charities that fit their ideals, like the mormon church, and do not benefit society in general + they get tax reductions because of that... So in the end they benefit from it.

My point with the video, was that inequality, racism plays a role in the life of minorities. Also, are you saying that the experts from Harvard, UCLA, etc are intellectually lazy because they concluded that racism puts a burden on the biology of humans......? This is the problems with conservatives, they reject facts, data, and serious studies because it doesn't match with their political views. Don't tell me you don't believe in evolution....

If you don't know the relatively tiny percentage of Mormons in this country...

Second, your straw man is almost clever, with the exception that there were no data or serious studies in the video you posted. Even Michael Moore could have done better.


Why do you think someone's blood pressure might be high? Could it be because of stressful situations, like, say, the fear of getting pulled over, FOR EXAMPLE. It was an example. You just felt the need to mock the example rather than the real idea behind that example.

The underlying assumption in the video is that it is American society as a whole that contributes to the disparate outcomes. Well, gangs in the inner cities must shoulder the responsibility for adding massively to the stress of law-abiding members of their own community.
 
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