How much of an effect does being URM do for an application?

[Freesia88]

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Members do not see this ad.

Not in the slightest. My point was that the final numbers of enrollment don't say anything about MCAT, GPA, extracurriculars, or how many members of each racial/ethnic group applied to medical school in the first place.



No, that is not my opinion. You misinterpreted my post.



I agree. I am all for URM (as opposed to AA in general), and I think a qualified applicant will get in regardless of race/ethnicity. That is, assuming (s)he makes good choices while applying.

The final numbers do matter though because they show who the adcoms thought were good enough, those whose MCAT, GPA, extracurriculars etc impressed the adcoms well enough.

The prevailing argument here against the URM advantage (Gah! I hate that phrase) is that it lets unqualified applicants in. This sounds to me like it is believed that all URM's have flawed application packages (low GPA's and MCATS etc) and hence medicine as a whole is being harmed by these sub par applicants being admitted to medical school.

The final numbers do show that in spite of this edge that URM's are given, the fraction of them who actually get accepted is still so small compared to white and asian applicants that it is quite absurd to think that you didn't get in because your spot was "taken" from you and "given" to some undeserving URM.

 

[LizzyM]

You can't help the way you are born and you have to play the hand you're dealt. With the Olympic Games starting this week, I'm thinking about some people who will be very, very good and yet not win a medal. Some of these people would have been good enough to win a medal if only they could compete with the women rather than the men. Is it unfair that they give medals to women who swim fast although they swim so slowly that some of the men who did not win medals could have beaten them if they were all in the pool at the same time? Should the medals go to the fastest regardless of sex?

 

[wolfie77]

You can't help the way you are born and you have to play the hand you're dealt. With the Olympic Games starting this week, I'm thinking about some people who will be very, very good and yet not win a medal. Some of these people would have been good enough to win a medal if only they could compete with the women rather than the men. Is it unfair that they give medals to women who swim fast although they swim so slowly that some of the men who did not win medals could have beaten them if they were all in the pool at the same time? Should the medals go to the fastest regardless of sex?

I don't think this is a road anyone here would wanna go down....biological determinism.

This is not the same thing. And on top of that, sports is of no consequence, compared to something like the physician workforce demographics.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You can't help the way you are born and you have to play the hand you're dealt. With the Olympic Games starting this week, I'm thinking about some people who will be very, very good and yet not win a medal. Some of these people would have been good enough to win a medal if only they could compete with the women rather than the men. Is it unfair that they give medals to women who swim fast although they swim so slowly that some of the men who did not win medals could have beaten them if they were all in the pool at the same time? Should the medals go to the fastest regardless of sex?

I'm pretty sure the boobs slow them down
So.... maybe we should advocate free elective mastectomies for Olympic swimmers? 😛

 

[Freesia88]

I'm pretty sure the boobs slow them down
So.... maybe we should advocate free elective mastectomies for Olympic swimmers? 😛

Wouldn't that be llike taking performance enhancing drugs or something? Performance enhancing surgery?😀

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I'll be as gentle as possible: your linked data is IRRELEVANT. It does not even take into account the applicant pool.

How is it completely irrelevant? It shows the end result, the actual demographics of medical school which is highly relevant.

By the way, can you at least tell us what state your medical school is in?

Dave89, I don't get it. Please help me understand. Do you just think URM's are just plain dumb and under no circumstances should be able to perform at a good enough level to be able to get into medical school? (You can just admit it...you'll not be the first to have such an opinion. )

He does support studies in others threads which he claims to be credible studies regarding the differences in intelligence (IQ) in populations of races.

I don't think this is a road anyone here would wanna go down....biological determinism.

This is not the same thing. And on top of that, sports is of no consequence, compared to something like the physician workforce demographics.

On this note, there was interesting article on CNN today about the role of gender in violence. It talked about the recent Colorado shooting and how only men commit these mass murders, and rarely do women ever commit an act of violence.

LizzyM: Do you mean that Asians need a higher standard in communication to get in?

No they need to meet a minimum standard, just like URMs have to meet a minimum MCAT and GPA.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

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[Arbor Vitae]

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[jhamaican]

You can't help the way you are born and you have to play the hand you're dealt. With the Olympic Games starting this week, I'm thinking about some people who will be very, very good and yet not win a medal. Some of these people would have been good enough to win a medal if only they could compete with the women rather than the men. Is it unfair that they give medals to women who swim fast although they swim so slowly that some of the men who did not win medals could have beaten them if they were all in the pool at the same time? Should the medals go to the fastest regardless of sex?

No. We should have a set of medals for each race and sex in each event. Everyone deserves a medal. Everyone is a winner. Generation of entitlement. Occupy!. You didn't build that! - Obama

If Olympics were like medical school admissions, there would be a set of medals for each race in the same event. People would say it is acceptable because track stars born in Jamaica had it easier than others - they received better training from an earlier age and no one should be held to their high standards.

 

[Poetic Silence]

Jamaican bobsledders make me LOL.

 

[kpcrew]

You can't help the way you are born and you have to play the hand you're dealt. With the Olympic Games starting this week, I'm thinking about some people who will be very, very good and yet not win a medal. Some of these people would have been good enough to win a medal if only they could compete with the women rather than the men. Is it unfair that they give medals to women who swim fast although they swim so slowly that some of the men who did not win medals could have beaten them if they were all in the pool at the same time? Should the medals go to the fastest regardless of sex?

there's a reason why no one watches the WNBA

 

[wolfie77]

No. We should have a set of medals for each race and sex in each event. Everyone deserves a medal. Everyone is a winner. Generation of entitlement. Occupy!. You didn't build that! - Obama

If Olympics were like medical school admissions, there would be a set of medals for each race in the same event. People would say it is acceptable because track stars born in Jamaica had it easier than others - they received better training from an earlier age and no one should be held to their high standards.

In fairness to the president, if you actually watch the video that contains that sound bite, you can see he was referring to the infrastructure that gov't has built that has allowed businesses to do business.

 

[Poetic Silence]

there's a reason why no one watches the WNBA

There's a reason why no one watches the Texas football teams.

 

[LizzyM]

There's a reason why no one watches the Texas football teams.

👎



😉

 

[Arbor Vitae]

There's a reason why no one watches the Texas football teams.

There's a reason no one watches Penn State. Too soon?

My favorite women's sport is hurdling.

 

[Ansar]

There's a reason no one watches Penn State.

I heard children love the games Penn State plays.
Or is the the other way around?

 

[Dave89]

In fairness to the president, if you actually watch the video that contains that sound bite, you can see he was referring to the infrastructure that gov't has built that has allowed businesses to do business.

The only way to interpret the statement in that manner is to demonstrate that Obama does not know basic English grammar.

 

[wolfie77]

The only way to interpret the statement in that manner is to demonstrate that Obama does not know basic English grammar.

....or mispoke. You can disagree with the man but there's no need to be disingenuous. It's clear that he doesn't believe that people don't build their own businesses. What he thinks is that they don't get there without having the support of a govt that has built a durable infrastructure.

 

[pre med 2014]

In fairness to the president, if you actually watch the video that contains that sound bite, you can see he was referring to the infrastructure that gov't has built that has allowed businesses to do business.

yes everyone knows that is what he meant, even all republicans. But politics is a game, it provided the perfect opportunity for a good sound bite and metaphor.

 

[Dave89]

....or mispoke. You can disagree with the man but there's no need to be disingenuous. It's clear that he doesn't believe that people don't build their own businesses. What he thinks is that they don't get there without having the support of a govt that has built a durable infrastructure.

It's not even close to clear. He was a member of the socialist New Party in the 1990s. I firmly believe that he has a collectivist and socialistic philosophy. If one takes the "You didn't build that" alone, without context, it fits perfectly with his past actions and words.

BTW the "misspoke" defense is a cop-out. He had already said something pretty stupid ("you didn't get there on your own" - either an insulting statement or something so blaringly obvious it speaks volumes about the stupidity of the voters he's catering to). He gave a reasonable rationalization for that. But then he chose to double down on this. Sorry, that's not a gaffe. Even taking context into account, Obama is flat out wrong. Those who have been successful tend to pay more taxes than most. So they owe other taxpayers and "the government" nothing.

2 options:

1) Obama actually believes an individual's success owes a good deal to "society", "everyone else", yada yada...

2) Contrary to media hype, Obama is a totally unremarkable speaker when not using his teleprompter training wheels.

 

[wolfie77]

It's not even close to clear. He was a member of the socialist New Party in the 1990s. I firmly believe that he has a collectivist and socialistic philosophy. If one takes the "You didn't build that" alone, without context, it fits perfectly with his past actions and words.

BTW the "misspoke" defense is a cop-out. He had already said something pretty stupid ("you didn't get there on your own" - either an insulting statement or something so blaringly obvious it speaks volumes about the stupidity of the voters he's catering to). He gave a reasonable rationalization for that. But then he chose to double down on this. Sorry, that's not a gaffe. Even taking context into account, Obama is flat out wrong. Those who have been successful tend to pay more taxes than most. So they owe other taxpayers and "the government" nothing.

2 options:

1) Obama actually believes an individual's success owes a good deal to "society", "everyone else", yada yada...

2) Contrary to media hype, Obama is a totally unremarkable speaker when not using his teleprompter training wheels.

If you already "firmly believe" a contradictory narrative, it really doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth.

 

[Dave89]

If you already "firmly believe" a contradictory narrative, it really doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth.

Oh, he's very versatile. He alternates between these two and corporatism. Truly a master of manipulation.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Oh, he's very versatile. He alternates between these two and corporatism. Truly a master of manipulation.

I already personally linked this thread to Obama's email, so he knows all about you Dave89.

 

[sibitrum]

BTW the "misspoke" defense is a cop-out. He had already said something pretty stupid ("you didn't get there on your own" - either an insulting statement or something so blaringly obvious it speaks volumes about the stupidity of the voters he's catering to).

Lol, the vast majority of voters of both parties are stupid and/or uneducated with respect to politics.

 

[PSU2013]

There's a reason no one watches Penn State. Too soon?

My favorite women's sport is hurdling.

😡😡😡😡😡 Yes

 

[Arbor Vitae]

😡😡😡😡😡 Yes

sorry mate, I was a supporter of Joe until the end too. I don't understand why they punished the players, and students, and school so much though. I mean look at the catholic church. That is far more important institution in society and they get a slap on the wrist.

 

[tn4596]

sorry mate, I was a supporter of Joe until the end too. I don't understand why they punished the players, and students, and school so much though. I mean look at the catholic church. That is far more important institution in society and they get a slap on the wrist.

Because the NCAA is relentlessly building a public perception of an image where athletes plays their hearts out for no money in a healthy, nurturing and respectful environment. Pretty overrated IMO. Public perception and loyalty are important to NCAA because that is directly related to viewerships, people arent watching college sports because athletes are the best of the best. Furthermore, there is a heavy news coverage especially when it comes to big program like Penn State, everything is out in the open when it comes to sports whereas for the catholic church, they can cover things up pretty quietly.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

Because the NCAA is relentlessly building a public perception of an image where athletes plays their hearts out for no money in a healthy, nurturing and respectful environment. Pretty overrated IMO. Public perception and loyalty are important to NCAA because that is directly related to viewerships, people arent watching college sports because athletes are the best of the best. Furthermore, there is a heavy news coverage especially when it comes to big program like Penn State, everything is out in the open when it comes to sports whereas for the catholic church, they can cover things up pretty quietly.

I consider scholarships money.

 

[Sandstorm]

there's a reason why no one watches the wnba

:-d

 

[PSU2013]

sorry mate, I was a supporter of Joe until the end too. I don't understand why they punished the players, and students, and school so much though. I mean look at the catholic church. That is far more important institution in society and they get a slap on the wrist.

Exactly! They're going a little overboard now

 

[GunnerBGone]

I watched a 6 year old in Kosovo get his lip torn off, fighting a stray dog for his supper...a dead donkey.
He tried to bite the dog...the dog won.
Lived in the town dump. Not sure how long. Parents probably killed for being the wrong religion.

Kid stood there, bottom lip dangling by corner. Bleeding like crazy.
Just stood there like a boss. No crying. No screaming. Just stared at everybody. 6 years old.

Went over to help...he kicked me in the balls.







Go bite a dog. Or shut the f*** up.

 

[woodside9]

 

[woodside9]

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[lobo.solo]

Please stop bumping old URM threads!!

 

[RomanTaylor]

Please stop bumping old URM threads!!

Right!? I mean, good God, what abyss did you dredge THIS crap from!?

 

[GunnerBGone]

Bump

 

[Fivo]

Why are you bumping this (I just did 🙁) when there are 14 pages worth of responses? What more can possibly be said?

 

[SixStringPsych]

Bump

 

[GunnerBGone]

My opinion must be known!!!!!1!!1!lL

Bump

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Right!? I mean, good God, what abyss did you dredge THIS crap from!?

URM vs non-URM threads are the abyss.

 

[SpecterGT260]

My opinion must be known!!!!!1!!1!lL

Bump

Why? It's kind of poorly formed

 

[Poetic Silence]

Team URM for the win!

We're taking it to the Superbowl this year, boys!