How Much Research Required for PM&R/Family Medicine?

[Kameha01]

I know some specialties require more research/pubs/posters and some require a lot less. I'm wondering how necessary/how much is required for someone who is really interested in PM&R or family medicine?

I highly, HIGHLY doubt I'm gonna change my mind. I have certain physical limitations that prevent me from doing more competitive specialties like surgery, so I'm pretty set on one of those two specialties

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[GoSpursGo]

None

 

[Kameha01]

None

wait really? so how do i stand out from other pm&r applicants?

 

[Med Ed]

wait really? so how do i stand out from other pm&r applicants?

That's just it, other than having genuine interest in the specialty (which will come through on the LORs), you don't need to. Assemble a decent application, apply smartly, present yourself well during interviews, and there is an excellent chance you'll match at one of your top 3 programs.

Unfortunately, the simplicity of this approach seems almost strange in today's environment.

 

[GoSpursGo]

wait really? so how do i stand out from other pm&r applicants?

Agree with above. Of course, if you WANT to explore research and think about an academic career or aim for “top” programs, by all means give it a go. But you can almost certainly match to *a* program as long as you have no red flags like professionalism problems or board failures

 

[medschoolboi2023]

Agree with above. Of course, if you WANT to explore research and think about an academic career or aim for “top” programs, by all means give it a go. But you can almost certainly match to *a* program as long as you have no red flags like professionalism problems or board failures

Is it impossible to teach as a physician if you dont go through academic medicine? Im not interested in research but would like to teach future physicians

 

[RangerBob]

PM&R attending here. If you want a top program then yes, research is helpful. But even then it’s not necessary.

The majority of programs don’t care about research though. Mayo was literally the only program that even asked about the one research project I did.

 

[ciestar]

You don’t need research for FM.

 

[cj_cregg]

Can't speak to PM&R, but for FM I had 2 small projects that were required for my college and MD degrees, each with a poster presentation at the school symposium, and no real pubs. I was told I had "a lot" of research at one interview lol

ETA re: teaching - there are more than enough FM programs and med schools with community-based rotations out there who are looking for FM docs to take rotating students/residents that you do not need to have an academic pedigree to teach.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Is it impossible to teach as a physician if you dont go through academic medicine? Im not interested in research but would like to teach future physicians

You pretty much have to do academic medicine, but you don’t necessarily need to do research in acsdemia

 

[Kameha01]

PM&R attending here. If you want a top program then yes, research is helpful. But even then it’s not necessary.

The majority of programs don’t care about research though. Mayo was literally the only program that even asked about the one research project I did.

got it. what do pmr programs look for in potential residents? what other activities can i do that they care about?

 

[Ho0v-man]

A friend of mine had ~40th/50th percentile scores on steps as a DO with no research. Interviewed at a couple top places in pm&r. FM is less competitive.

Congrats on being interested in non-competitive specialties. Would have made med school much nicer and dare I say, somewhat enjoyable.

 

[Med Ed]

got it. what do pmr programs look for in potential residents? what other activities can i do that they care about?

Try to pass everything in medical school on the first attempt. Do things you are interested in. Your school will probably have interest groups in one or both of these specialties, and those groups typically plan activities you may find enjoyable.

The biggest single thing you can do for either specialty is just show genuine interest. A lot of people use non-competitive fields as backup plans. A lot of other people who have red flags (or otherwise marginal applications) apply to them out of desperation.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You pretty much have to do academic medicine, but you don’t necessarily need to do research in acsdemia

With the expansion of DO schools that's no longer true.

 

[Med Ed]

Is it impossible to teach as a physician if you dont go through academic medicine? Im not interested in research but would like to teach future physicians

There are two basic routes to teaching medical students.

1. Join an academic institution as a full-time faculty member. Teaching will probably be part of your job description and can occur in any setting. More likely to have opportunities to get involved in directing a course or serving on committees.
2. Private practice but join an academic institution as a clinical/adjunct faculty member. Teaching is something you do out interest and typically occurs in clinical settings, often one-on-one.

 

[RangerBob]

got it. what do pmr programs look for in potential residents? what other activities can i do that they care about?

Do well on your clerkships, USMLE, and show some kind of interest/commitment to the specialty--a PM&R rotation is essential. I did a couple away rotations, so 3 total PM&R rotations, which was maybe 1 too many.

We're really the same as FM in this regard. They, like us, want to see decent scores/grades and that you genuinely want to pursue that specialty. A good quality rotation and LOR is typically enough to show that for most FM and PM&R programs. After that, most PM&R/FM programs just want to make sure you're a good fit personality-wise with the program. Most of my interviews were conversational and quite relaxed.

If you want to go to out top residency programs like Mayo, Spaulding (Harvard) UW (Washington) and just a handful of others, then having some research, extracurricular PM&R stuff (like helping teach MSK anatomy to the M1s), and doing an away PM&R rotation at that specific program are all very helpful.

If you decide to pursue PM&R, the PM&R sub-forum here can be useful for advice on how many programs to apply to/where to apply to. PM&R generally doesn't have any spots go unfilled, so it's critical in PM&R to apply to a good number of programs.

 

[GoSpursGo]

With the expansion of DO schools that's no longer true.

I can’t speak for FM or PM&R specifically, but there are multiple tracks that can academic faculty member can be hired onto. So you’ll need “academic productivity,” but it doesn’t have to necessarily be basic science or clinical research, it could be education or QI or admin or something else that can cover some nominal amount of your FTE (ie being a clerkship director or residency program director, or even associate director, etc—these jobs can cover anywhere from .1-.3 or .4 FTE). Yeah you’ll need to have some pubs, but they can be fluffy reviews or med Ed or even simple case series.

As others have said, you can also presumably affiliate with a med school as adjunct faculty and just be a preceptor.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I can’t speak for FM or PM&R specifically, but there are multiple tracks that can academic faculty member can be hired onto. So you’ll need “academic productivity,” but it doesn’t have to necessarily be basic science or clinical research, it could be education or QI or admin or something else that can cover some nominal amount of your FTE (ie being a clerkship director or residency program director, or even associate director, etc—these jobs can cover anywhere from .1-.3 or .4 FTE). Yeah you’ll need to have some pubs, but they can be fluffy reviews or med Ed or even simple case series.

As others have said, you can also presumably affiliate with a med school as adjunct faculty and just be a preceptor.

The last part is what I was referring to. I have in the last several years had students with me 8 months out of the year for a month at a time. Minus having to give the occasional lunch lecture, that's what most of my med school attendings did as far as med student education went.