How much say do you have in choosing duty station

[sp4k]

Hi everyone,

I'm a PhD currently working in biopharma but I plan on applying to USUHS (PHS or Army) for the love of medicine and military. Since I'm a bit older (30) than average applicant and have a family I was wondering how much say you have when choosing duty stations later on. Does military care at all about your preference or do they ship you wherever they decide?

Thanks.

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[WernickeDO]

Hi everyone,

I'm a PhD currently working in biopharma but I plan on applying to USUHS (PHS or Army) for the love of medicine and military. Since I'm a bit older (30) than average applicant and have a family I was wondering how much say you have when choosing duty stations later on. Does military care at all about your preference or do they ship you wherever they decide?

Thanks.

You will likely be presented with a list of possible sites and you can submit a preference list. Bear in mind your options might be Fts Polk, Sill, and Drum if you're Army (FYI: those are considered not desirable sites). So technically you do have a "say" but that doesn't always mean much.

 

[Perrotfish]

Hi everyone,

I'm a PhD currently working in biopharma but I plan on applying to USUHS (PHS or Army) for the love of medicine and military. Since I'm a bit older (30) than average applicant and have a family I was wondering how much say you have when choosing duty stations later on. Does military care at all about your preference or do they ship you wherever they decide?

Thanks.

They care about your preferences if those preferences are reasonable. Just realize that everyone else has preferences too and the more senior staff members will take priority.

Reasonable preference: you want to go to Leemore (an awful base surrounded by cornfields for 2 hours in any direction) rather than Okinawa because you are married to a civilian family practice doctor who can only work in the US. The detailer will probably work with you. Not a guarantee, but probably.

Unreasonable preference: you can only live in the DC metro area, because you are married to a civilian lawyer who works for a lobbying firm and your spouse's job can't move. They will not let you tie yourself to one of the most desirable bases in the Navy, and force someone else to go to the awful bases, because of your personal choices. You will be moving, and your spouse will get to choose between quitting her job and being separated from you for the next few years.

And again, even reasonable preferences aren't always possible to accommodate. If ALL the available assignments are overseas in your year, you might not even get Leemore.

 

[sp4k]

Unreasonable preference: you can only live in the DC metro area, because you are married to a civilian lawyer who works for a lobbying firm and your spouse's job can't move. They will not let you tie yourself to one of the most desirable bases in the Navy, and force someone else to go to the awful bases, because of your personal choices. You will be moving, and your spouse will get to choose between quitting her job and being separated from you for the next few years.

This is hilarious because you're kind of describing the situation. My fiancee is currently pursuing PhD but has plans to do law school while I'm in med school, and eventually work in science policy. Alternative for her would be medical writing, which can be done remotely. I guess I'm lucky in that sense, but what we're worried the most is children.

 

[Perrotfish]

This is hilarious because you're kind of describing the situation. My fiancee is currently pursuing PhD but has plans to do law school while I'm in med school, and eventually work in science policy. Alternative for her would be medical writing, which can be done remotely. I guess I'm lucky in that sense, but what we're worried the most is children.

Worried about children in what sense?

FWIW I have known a few active duty married to lawyers. It's really tough to make that work if she doesn't join the military as well.

Them military is very good (though not perfect) about keeping dual military couples together, BTW.

 

[militaryPHYS]

but what we're worried the most is children.

How old are your kids?

If your biggest concern is duty station based off your kids (save EFMP situations) then you really need to re-evaluate if the military is the right thing for you and the family...especially a USUHS commitment. Sure you will have 4 years in D.C. for med school, but after that it is anyone's guess. Most likely it won't be D.C. for the first 3-6 years post-med-school (unless you are top-notch and match at your top choice for residency) Even then, you may or may not still like walter-reed/Bethesda based off of your med school rotations.

I thought I wanted to stay in D.C. too until I rotated out during my clerkships. Other residencies/states have a lot to offer and might draw you in. Don't sign the line for USUHS if you already have the next 10 years planned out for you and the fam and you'll be disappointed if something changes.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

You will not have four years in DC as a USUHS student. I’ve had a total of two rotations at Walter Reed.

Sure I didn’t really want to rotate there very much, but people that did still have spent significant time out of the National capital area.


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[Cooperd0g]

... Leemore ... Leemore.

It is Lemoore. And there are worse places. But overall, good advice.

 

[pgg]

It is Lemoore. And there are worse places. But overall, good advice.

I spent a few years at Lemoore. I requested it and the SL/detailer were happy to oblige, despite it being a transcontinental PCS.

There were positives to it. Cost of living is low (for California). No traffic, no crowds. Moonlighting for my specialty was superb. Close to our families (which is why we asked to go there). The fresh produce is amazingly good ... the restaurants largely suck unless you're an Applebees or Ruby Tuesday devotee ... but I do miss the farmers markets and the surrounding orchards and the taco trucks.

But yeah, it's a cultural wasteland. And ... the surrounding mountains and dust-kicking agriculture industry make the air quality about the worst in the entire nation. Seriously - Lemoore/Hanford, Visalia, Fresno, and Bakersfield typically EACH make the top 5 of nearly every nationwide air quality ****list out there. It's that bad. Taxes suck. The gun laws suck. The nanny state sucks. It's freakishly hot in the summer.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Don't forget cocci. If you're black or Filipino, stay the **** away from that place

 

[Cooperd0g]

I spent a few years at Lemoore. I requested it and the SL/detailer were happy to oblige, despite it being a transcontinental PCS.

There were positives to it. Cost of living is low (for California). No traffic, no crowds. Moonlighting for my specialty was superb. Close to our families (which is why we asked to go there). The fresh produce is amazingly good ... the restaurants largely suck unless you're an Applebees or Ruby Tuesday devotee ... but I do miss the farmers markets and the surrounding orchards and the taco trucks.

But yeah, it's a cultural wasteland. And ... the surrounding mountains and dust-kicking agriculture industry make the air quality about the worst in the entire nation. Seriously - Lemoore/Hanford, Visalia, Fresno, and Bakersfield typically EACH make the top 5 of nearly every nationwide air quality ****list out there. It's that bad. Taxes suck. The gun laws suck. The nanny state sucks. It's freakishly hot in the summer.

Agreed on all points. While not on the top of my list, I would go back before many other places. Like you said, the relatively low cost of living and, for me, the proximity to the mountains. I would be in the mountains just about every weekend all year round.

 

[sp4k]

Thanks everyone for your responses. So in, let's say, 10 years in PHS or Army, how many times can you expect to have to relocate? Do any of these have to be overseas?

 

[Perrotfish]

Thanks everyone for your responses. So in, let's say, 10 years in PHS or Army, how many times can you expect to have to relocate? Do any of these have to be overseas?

In all branches of the military you will relocate every 2-4 years. Most orders are for 2-3 years, with an option to extend for one additional year. Unattached orders (where you aren't allowed to take your family, though not technically a deployment) are sometimes 1 year. No idea about PHS.

 

[HighPriest]

One important thing to keep in mind with regards to PCS moves (and this is highly specialty specific):
Just because there are physicians of your specialty at a location doesn't mean that you actually have a chance of ending up there.

For example: in Army ENT, unless you're fellowship trained, you will not go to Madigan or Tripler. It's very unlikely that you'll go to SAMC or WR. These locations are saturated with fellowship trained docs, and they don't want or have room for generalists.

There are rare exceptions. Back when rank meant something, it was possible to go there as an O-6 generalist. I think those days are gone, at least for now.

We also had one generalist who ended up at MAMC because they were married to a physician in another department who was ordered to MAMC. Had the spouse not come, however, the general ENT would definitely not have ended up at MAMC. (That ENT also did some time away from their spouse at a small MEDDAC prior to being eligible to go to MAMC).

Because there are many more family docs, internists, or pediatricians compared with ENT, I understand it is much more common to get stationed at a large MEDCEN. That is not generally true with subspecialists without a fellowship (save for neurosurgery and to a lesser extent urology).

Anyway, that's not applicable to most people, but it is important to understand for the people who might be effected by it.

 

[sp4k]

One important thing to keep in mind with regards to PCS moves (and this is highly specialty specific):
Just because there are physicians of your specialty at a location doesn't mean that you actually have a chance of ending up there.

For example: in Army ENT, unless you're fellowship trained, you will not go to Madigan or Tripler. It's very unlikely that you'll go to SAMC or WR. These locations are saturated with fellowship trained docs, and they don't want or have room for generalists.

There are rare exceptions. Back when rank meant something, it was possible to go there as an O-6 generalist. I think those days are gone, at least for now.

We also had one generalist who ended up at MAMC because they were married to a physician in another department who was ordered to MAMC. Had the spouse not come, however, the general ENT would definitely not have ended up at MAMC. (That ENT also did some time away from their spouse at a small MEDDAC prior to being eligible to go to MAMC).

Because there are many more family docs, internists, or pediatricians compared with ENT, I understand it is much more common to get stationed at a large MEDCEN. That is not generally true with subspecialists without a fellowship (save for neurosurgery and to a lesser extent urology).

Anyway, that's not applicable to most people, but it is important to understand for the people who might be effected by it.

Thank you, those are all great points. So can specialty in any way influence where you're more likely to get stationed? Based on my personal interest and scientific background, I'd love to go neuro or psychiatry.

Thank you again.

 

[HighPriest]

It can, in the sense that not every station has every specialty. I don't know of a list anywhere that states what each station has with regards to medical specialties. But I would not think that you'd need to be fellowship trained to end up at the large MEDCENS in neuro or psyche. I can't say for sure, however. The question is: how small of a place could you end up wasting away at?

 

[haujun]

Needs of military always take precedence over your personal choice. If you personally know or work with your consultant and he likes you that should help 100%!! It is always who know and it should not work this way but it is what it is...

 

[j4pac]

Bro...you’ve got too many moving pieces. The military needs people like you, and I’m a big advocate of people who want to serve...but this is going to likely be a big f’n problem to your family situation.

 

[Homunculus]

One important thing to keep in mind with regards to PCS moves (and this is highly specialty specific):
Just because there are physicians of your specialty at a location doesn't mean that you actually have a chance of ending up there.

For example: in Army ENT, unless you're fellowship trained, you will not go to Madigan or Tripler. It's very unlikely that you'll go to SAMC or WR. These locations are saturated with fellowship trained docs, and they don't want or have room for generalists.

There are rare exceptions. Back when rank meant something, it was possible to go there as an O-6 generalist. I think those days are gone, at least for now.

We also had one generalist who ended up at MAMC because they were married to a physician in another department who was ordered to MAMC. Had the spouse not come, however, the general ENT would definitely not have ended up at MAMC. (That ENT also did some time away from their spouse at a small MEDDAC prior to being eligible to go to MAMC).

Because there are many more family docs, internists, or pediatricians compared with ENT, I understand it is much more common to get stationed at a large MEDCEN. That is not generally true with subspecialists without a fellowship (save for neurosurgery and to a lesser extent urology).

Anyway, that's not applicable to most people, but it is important to understand for the people who might be effected by it.

also, if you are part of a small specialist community, once you are someplace if you don't like it they may not be able to move you due to lack of other options. i wanted to move at year 3-- no dice, because there was no one to replace me. year 4, same story though they are trying to work something out to keep me in. if i wasn't at the end of my ADSO i wouldn't be able to leave until year 5 or 6. all it takes is 1 or 2 people to retire or ETS and it locks people into their positions. just something to be aware of.

--your friendly neighborhood finally has most of the cards caveman

 

[sp4k]

Bro...you’ve got too many moving pieces. The military needs people like you, and I’m a big advocate of people who want to serve...but this is going to likely be a big f’n problem to your family situation.

Thank you everyone for your feedback, I appreciate it. I guess in the long run, me and my wife don't really see this as a huge issue, but of course things can change. I still have a couple of years to figure this out.

On a separate note, does anyone know what the life in PHS is like? I can't seem to get the answer anywhere, even from their recruiter.