how much "shadowing" do applicants really have

[redrabbit]

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Hi everyone,
For those applying this cycle, I hope that everything is going well. I just have a very general question. I was wondering how many hours of shadowing and/or "real" clinical experince applicants have (not including volunteering at the hospital, filing charts).
Do you think working in an dental or optometry office would also be consider "medically-related/ clinical" experience?
thanks

 

[45408]

I've shadowed docs for a total of nine days, I think, but I've been an EMT since last November (that's when I got the job - I got certified in January 04).

I'd skip the dentist/optometrist, because you're not going to be a dentist or optometrist, are you?

 

[MoosePilot]

Hi everyone,
For those applying this cycle, I hope that everything is going well. I just have a very general question. I was wondering how many hours of shadowing and/or "real" clinical experince applicants have (not including volunteering at the hospital, filing charts).
Do you think working in an dental or optometry office would also be consider "medically-related/ clinical" experience?
thanks

About 50 hours shadowing and about 25 volunteering in the radiology department.

 

[0T6]

About 100 hours shadowing a doc and about 500 volunteering in an ER with direct patient interaction (and no filing)

 

[Mr. Seeds]

~100 hrs physician shadowing, and approx. 2500 hrs. clinical experience working at the VA.

 

[pseudoknot]

300 hours of shadowing in a hospital summer program, although it was around the same time I filed the AMCAS so maybe it doesn't "count." Also ~100 hours working as an EMT, and about 1000 hours working at a suicide hotline (which is kind of in a gray area of clinical exposure).

 

[redrabbit]

wow, its that very common. That seems like a lot.

in regards to the optometry/dental job, that is the only job I can find with flexible hours. I was just wondering if that will be consider some clinical experience. I don't want to be an optometrist, maybe an optha tho.Will it acutally hurt me?

 

[SuzieQ3417]

I have only a few days of shadowing experience. I know this is going to hurt my application, but it was difficult for me to fit it into my schedule. The only free time I have during the school year is on the weekends, and unfortunately all of the urgent care clinics I contacted do not allow pre-meds to come in on the weekends. Anyway...beyond excuses, there are some people who are applying without 300+ shadowing hours. 🙂

 

[hlchess]

Wow, I don't have any shadowing experience. The only medically related experience is volunteering at the hospital.

How do you guys find doctors to shadow? Does your school have a system to help you get shadowing experience?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

My parents are docs so I dont have any formal "shadowing" experiences, but 25 years of getting to know what physicians do.

 

[SuzieQ3417]

Wow, I don't have any shadowing experience. The only medically related experience is volunteering at the hospital.

How do you guys find doctors to shadow? Does your school have a system to help you get shadowing experience?

My advice is to contact as many doctors as you can. I must have called/emailed at least a dozen doctors, and only two responded. I looked up doctors through the internet...our univ hospital has pictures for each physician as well as bios (including where they went to med school/residency).

 

[45408]

Does your school have a system to help you get shadowing experience?

Yup. Although I also arranged one of the docs on my own - I know him through work.

 

[Will Hunting]

Yup. Although I also arranged one of the docs on my own - I know him through work.

wow, I really need to get on shadowing.

 

[crazy_cavalier]

In the words of one of my favorite deans,

"Your middle name could be 'shadowing' and that doesn't matter. I have students who think, oh shadow shadow and shadow, but that doesn't mean anything if they are failing in the classroom."

Don't go bonkers on the shadowing / clinical exp. Yes, have some, yes know what you are getting into, but first priorities lie on grades and mcat.

 

[LabMonster]

I shadowed a DO in our ER for about 20 hours. Clinical Lab experience 10000 ish, direct patient contact is much less though, more like 1000 hours.

Shadowing is great, don't do it "because all the other kids are doing it" - do it because you want to learn and experience medicine firsthand. 🙂

 

[g3pro]

In the words of one of my favorite deans,

"Your middle name could be 'shadowing' and that doesn't matter. I have students who think, oh shadow shadow and shadow, but that doesn't mean anything if they are failing in the classroom."

Don't go bonkers on the shadowing / clinical exp. Yes, have some, yes know what you are getting into, but first priorities lie on grades and mcat.

I think a better way of saying it is:

"Get your priorities straight: MCAT, GPA, clinical experience (shadowing), volunteering."

 

[psipsina]

I have about 250hrs shadowing XP I got before I had my hospital priveledges at my current job, without priveledges you were only allowed to shadow a Dr, so I spent two days a week in clinic shadowing and getting paid for it 😉 . . . As far as clinical XP I have my current job where I see patients in a clinic, take histories, dispense study medications, order labs etc. I'm also about to start volunteering at a children's hospital either keeping kids on the hem-onc ward company or rocking babies. I think what they are really looking for is that you have an idea of what you are getting into, have had to interact with rude patients, deal with rude insurance co's, deal with rude hospital admin etc and still want in on this job.

 

[Dr.VanNostrand]

I have 3,000,000 hours of shadowing experience (direct patient contact, naturally), during which time I performed an open heart surgery, read was and peace to a ward of sick children, and saved a family and their two dogs from a burning building....mwahahaha...

 

[Blake]

I have 3,000,000 hours of shadowing experience (direct patient contact, naturally), during which time I performed an open heart surgery, read was and peace to a ward of sick children, and saved a family and their two dogs from a burning building....mwahahaha...

GO YOU ! 😎

Btw, I probably didn't have over 20 hours of shadowing when I applied (I don't live in the USA), and my volunteering experience was basically zero. I guess I'll come back in 10 years and tell you how if I became a decent doc or not. 😉

Anyway, in my opinion, most medical students I hang out with basically did all of this to pad their resumes. No, I'm not saying you (yea, you) are doing this too, but don't stress too much about quantity. It's all about quality.

 

[redrabbit]

for those of you that applied/got in/etc.. how much shadowing did you have?
I have been shadowing for three days and all I see are they same things? how would 100+ hours be any better than 20 hours if it is the smae thing?

 

[Kimka83]

On your AMCAS, did you list shadowing as community service/volunteer -medical/clinical or as extracurricular/hobbies/advocations?

 

[gujuDoc]

About 50 hours shadowing and about 25 volunteering in the radiology department.

Wow!!! You have almost the same number hours as me. I think I am 3 short of 50 hours. I did 47 hours between Physical med and rehab and Neurology. I might do some in a different field in the future.

I currently volunteer with the VA SICU waiting room.

 

[MoosePilot]

Wow!!! You have almost the same number hours as me. I think I am 3 short of 50 hours. I did 47 hours between Physical med and rehab and Neurology. I might do some in a different field in the future.

I currently volunteer with the VA SICU waiting room.

It was cool. I really enjoyed the shadowing I got to do. I like all the docs I shadowed and if I'm a doc, I hope I get to help some pre-meds out.

 

[gujuDoc]

It was cool. I really enjoyed the shadowing I got to do. I like all the docs I shadowed and if I'm a doc, I hope I get to help some pre-meds out.

Yeah, I enjoyed my shadowing experiences as well. The VA doctors, are especially nice to people who want to shadow them, not just wear I shadowed but also in the other depts where my friends shadowed. And what made that deal even sweeter was that many of these docs were affiliated with the med school, so they were especially understanding towards students.

I think the neuro chair was funny as hell. He was cool because his experiences were quite diverse and he always had stories to share with his patients, which made it easier to communicate and relate to the patients.

 

[curlykid]

Hi all, I have a few questions.

Where exactly do we mention all of our shadowing experience in our application?

I am not really sure what to do, anytime I've had a volunteering position, I've asked a doctor if I can shadow them, so whenever there was downtime in my volunteer position, I just shadowed the doc. On my application, would I just say, Volunteer/Shadowing, or just leaving the shadowing part out of it. I really don't have that many hours to begin with (at least it seems compared to everyone else on this forum). ~20 hours volunteer/shadow Radiologist, ~4-5 hours shadowing a dermatology (pre-freshman), ~28 hours volunteer/shadow ER. is it bad to put voluteer/shadow? ooo i forgot, ~50 hours pure shadowing a pediatrician. should i leave out the shadow with the others?

 

[Sust]

For my clinical experience, I worked at a Virginia State Involuntary Psych Facility as a technician. I highly recommend it if you want to test your people skills and REALLY get up close/personal clinical exposure.

Working in a dental or optometry office is not optimal but I think better than sitting on your duff all summer. If possible, try to do the EMT thing. I think my EMT experience in DC really opened my eyes to what medicine "feels" like sometimes.

Hi everyone,
For those applying this cycle, I hope that everything is going well. I just have a very general question. I was wondering how many hours of shadowing and/or "real" clinical experince applicants have (not including volunteering at the hospital, filing charts).
Do you think working in an dental or optometry office would also be consider "medically-related/ clinical" experience?
thanks

 

[Kazema]

0 hours shadowing.

My clinical experience was all from volunteering and as an AmeriCorps member tutoring (and doing other random things) in a psychiatric hospital.

One of my interviewers at UB actually mentioned my lack of shadowing but they me in anyway.

 

[gujuDoc]

0 hours shadowing.

My clinical experience was all from volunteering and as an AmeriCorps member tutoring (and doing other random things) in a psychiatric hospital.

One of my interviewers at UB actually mentioned my lack of shadowing but they me in anyway.

Hey Kazema,

Has med school started for you all yet?? If so, how were your first weeks?? I'm just asking cuz its already the second week of classes for the MS1's here at USF. Hope things are going good so far.

 

[Kazema]

Yep, we had orientation last week, started classes last Thursday. Have an exam in our biostats/epidemiology-type class this Friday, Anatomy also starts this Friday. "Foundations" which is like all the biochem/histology/genetics/etc stuff starts Monday, as does "Clinical Practice of Medicine".

So the fun has begun, with even more fun soon to come. It's awesome so far, having a blast, but then I was a psychology-ish major so stats is in my blood. I might have a different attitude starting on Monday .

 

[smsansoucie]

Hi everyone,
For those applying this cycle, I hope that everything is going well. I just have a very general question. I was wondering how many hours of shadowing and/or "real" clinical experince applicants have (not including volunteering at the hospital, filing charts).
Do you think working in an dental or optometry office would also be consider "medically-related/ clinical" experience?
thanks

So far, I have had 9 hours of shadowing experience. To answer your second question, I do believe that working in a dental/optometry office is a "medically-related/clinical" experience as you would be working with both patients and service providers in a clinical setting to treat physical conditions.

Stephanie

 

[Sartre]

Are there any firm guidelines as to what qualifies as "clinical experience"? I've worked as a behavioral therapist with autistic children (not in a clinic, but in in-home programs) for the past four years, and currently work at a facility that combines research and clinical (for autism and related disorders).

Do these experiences qualify as clinical? I plan to shadow doctors over the next 6 months for my own edification, but do I need to do more in a hospital setting? (I'm working full-time and taking evening and weekend classes, so I don't have a whole lot of time).

Thanks everyone for your advice and comments - this thread has been very helpful.

 

[redrabbit]

anymore advice?

 

[will8570]

So, I work in the local hospital ED on the weekends during the school year...~4 hours a week. First, Is that enough? I get some patient contact but its mostly silent observation of the physicians treating patients.

Second, I spent two months this summer working in the Holding/pre-surgery ward of a different hospital. I mostly transported patients to and from the Day surgery area to the holding area and then back from recovery to day surgery or to the floors if they were inpatients. During this exposure, I saw five surgical procedures, including an organ harvest on a braindead organ donor. But I mostly "shadowed" anesthesiologists for two months during each free minute. How do I classify this experience on apps? And does this count as shadowing? I think I'm going to ask the doctor that took the most interest in me to write me a rec letter. Any advice on this?

And last, do you ask for rec letters right after you get experience or right before you are going to apply to med school? I mean, do they necessarily have a "time stamp?"

 

[indynshrty]

I shadowed a doc in the ER of a children's hospital....it was great..and I got to see some cool stuff, but overall...I saw some of the same stuff over and over again. Also, I also found that I most benefitted from watching the interactions of the doctor with her patients, not so much the clincal stuff. So basically, I think that it's what you get out of it...not really the amount of hours.
Did you all include the shadowing stuff on your apps...I'm kind of hoping that the letter of rec that I got from my doc will show that I shadowed her.

 

[75969]

Yeah, I enjoyed my shadowing experiences as well. The VA doctors, are especially nice to people who want to shadow them, not just wear I shadowed but also in the other depts where my friends shadowed. And what made that deal even sweeter was that many of these docs were affiliated with the med school, so they were especially understanding towards students.

How exactly did you go about finding doctors at the VA to shadow? Have you shadowed at any other hospitals in Tampa? Thanks!

 

[gujuDoc]

How exactly did you go about finding doctors at the VA to shadow? Have you shadowed at any other hospitals in Tampa? Thanks!

Send me a PM with your email, and I'll email you more details. I know many people because the old volunteer director helped me out. now I just call the doctors directly. Are you in AED by any chance?? If so, I can let you know at one of our meetings. If not, you can possibly just pm me with an email and we can discuss. When you pm me, let me know what kind of doctors (what fields) you are interested in. And to answer the last question......I have some contacts at TGH, and am working on gaining 3 contacts at Moffitt. So we'll see how that goes. I used to have a contact at Shriners but they had to stop letting us go because there were too many students. I have several several contacts at the VA though.

I also have some contacts through the Reach Out and Read program near TGH for pediatrics. But again, let me know.

 

[75969]

Send me a PM with your email, and I'll email you more details.....QUOTE]

PM sent!

 

[calcrew14]

for those of you that applied/got in/etc.. how much shadowing did you have?
I have been shadowing for three days and all I see are they same things? how would 100+ hours be any better than 20 hours if it is the smae thing?

Are you sure that you haven’t overlooked anything? I believe that it’s the routine of a medical practice that Adcoms want you to see. Are you sure that you don’t get much out of it? Well, the same things that you see over and over again could mean that a practice of medicine can be boring to death. It may be the one area on the dark side that adcoms want everyone to see. Medicine can be as monotonous as a blank screen. Adcoms want to make sure that you can handle it.

Adcoms wants to make sure that you’d love to do what the doctor does in his practice too. So, if s/he takes a lot of history, then you’d be dying to do it too. The same applies to physical examination, giving out advice and writing prescription…etc You also need to make sure that you enjoy the time out too. The only time that you don’t need to mention is when the doctor goes to the bank. Now go for it, good luck.

BTW, I have an impression that adcoms don't care at all for shadowing other professional such as a pharmacist or a dentist. Checking other careers may backfire especially when one does it late. Regarding the topic of this thread, go with numbers posted here (shadowing and hospital volunteer.)

 

[big_smiles]

I had 450 hrs hospital volunteer work, ~500 hours shadowing (mostly in New Visions in senior yr high school, ~50 in college), and researched 2 years where I occasionally went on rounds. Emphasize your strong points in your application! If you have a lot of clinical experience, talk about it. If not, emphasize your strong points!

 

[redrabbit]

How do you think it will backfire? I am "only" doing it as a job. I do ppl get 400+ hours of shadowing unless there's a program in your area. This summer, i have shadowed 3 doctors for about 25 hours, is that good. I think i have a pretty go sense of what they do and they are all in different fields.

 

[riceman04]

300+ hours.
but I have only shadowed approx. 100 outside of the family.

My dad and sister are physicians

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Are there any firm guidelines as to what qualifies as "clinical experience"? I've worked as a behavioral therapist with autistic children (not in a clinic, but in in-home programs) for the past four years, and currently work at a facility that combines research and clinical (for autism and related disorders).

Do these experiences qualify as clinical? I plan to shadow doctors over the next 6 months for my own edification, but do I need to do more in a hospital setting? (I'm working full-time and taking evening and weekend classes, so I don't have a whole lot of time).

Thanks everyone for your advice and comments - this thread has been very helpful.

I think working with autisitic kids directly is great experience. I know that adcoms do like to see hospital volunteer work in particular, but if you're lacking time I wouldn't worry too much. I think they want to see: long-term committment to something, empathy/community involvement, and exposure to what doctors do in a hospital setting. If you have done this via shadowing and work as it sounds you have, I wouldn't worry. They want people who prioritize and don't overload themselves! Personally, I think you learn more about being a great doctor from talking to parents of special needs kids than you do by volunteering anyway. Best of luck to you.

 

[MechE]

I've shadowed 13 docs. I usually spent a few days to a week with each one.

 

[redrabbit]

I've shadowed 13 docs. I usually spent a few days to a week with each one.

Will doctors usually let you stay for 5 whole days? The doctors I have asked are fairly reluctant, and they most i have done with them is one full day 9-6. Others only want me to be there for one afternoon. How do i ask for more. sometimes, it feels weird to be there b/c i run out of questions to ask during the down time.

 

[MechE]

Will doctors usually let you stay for 5 whole days? The doctors I have asked are fairly reluctant, and they most i have done with them is one full day 9-6. Others only want me to be there for one afternoon. How do i ask for more. sometimes, it feels weird to be there b/c i run out of questions to ask during the down time.

The doc I spent a week with was in Internal Medicine. Towards the end he slapped a stethoscope on me and let me take a history on some of his patients, so I’d get some experience. Most of the other docs I shadowed were for a day or two. I spent more time with the surgeons because I shadowed them in their clinics and the OR.

 

[calcrew14]

How do you think it will backfire? I am "only" doing it as a job. I do ppl get 400+ hours of shadowing unless there's a program in your area. This summer, i have shadowed 3 doctors for about 25 hours, is that good. I think i have a pretty go sense of what they do and they are all in different fields.

Working for an optometrist or a dentist looks better than shadowing them. I didn’t mean that you should exclude any of them. Just gave you a warning that adcoms might see them as distraction.
Twenty five hours in three offices should work fine. It can also be a proof that opportunity doesn’t come by, easily. As long as you are confident that you can attest to your experience well, there is no need for any more shadowing. You might end up in a nit-picking chamber somewhere.

Do you have any nonclinical activity? It may be time to look for one now. How about starting some thread like "clinical vs non-clinical, which one gets you in?" with zero post moniker? It might help.

 

[sweetstuff25]

I always feel like i'm gettin "in the way" of the doctors job when shadowing thus i've shadowed a very few times. i'm surprised ppl did aprox 100hours, i'd feel a little awkward especially since i'm a pre-med and 90% of doc vocabulary is foreign language to me.

 

[redrabbit]

I always feel like i'm gettin "in the way" of the doctors job when shadowing thus i've shadowed a very few times. i'm surprised ppl did aprox 100hours, i'd feel a little awkward especially since i'm a pre-med and 90% of doc vocabulary is foreign language to me.

i kinda feel the same way as sweetstuff24. I do feel that i get in their way. Even during down times, i felt as though i am preventing them from doing stuff they normally do. A lot of awkward silences too...

 

[MoosePilot]

It's easier as a non-trad. I had a great time shadowing and wish I'd had more time to do more of it.

 

[pre-medUSF]

I agree that sometimes it feels as if you are getting in the way when you are shadowing. Yesterday I shadowed a neurologist at a VA hospital and he was nearly 3 hrs behind schedule. I asked him if I was putting him behind schedule and offered to leave if he would like. He said that I was not putting him behind, but that the cases were very complicated. He encouraged me to stay and said that he enjoyed having me. I think that doctors are much more comfortable with having a shadow than most people think. The doctor treated me very nice and asked me questions about the patients right in front of them. I felt a little like I was being quized. Oh, I forgot to mention, the attending neurologist I shadowed is the Department Chair of Neurology at USF med school. I am interested in applying to USF med school and focusing on neurology, so it was really neat that I got to shadow him.