how much should i shadow?

[ocdoc]

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I'm shadowing an MD to eventually go to DO school. What is a good minimum amount?

 

[jkhamlin]

I'm shadowing an MD to eventually go to DO school. What is a good minimum amount?

KCOM once told me 100 hours.

 

[harrypotter]

KCOM once told me 100 hours.

For reals?! 😱 Hot damn, I'm having a heck of a time just trying to find one that'll let me shadow for an afternoon..... let alone 100 hours!

 

[Testy McAterson]

do u have any clinical volunteer hours/work hours? asking anyone to let you follow them around for 100 hours is asking an awful lot of someone. i'd try to volunteer in a hospital (emergency departments will usually let you) and just shadow a day or two per doctor... but that's just me. i can tell you that most schools (AND DOCTORS) prefer hours spent volunteering over shadowing, though...shadowing is great to get some knowledge, but with volunteering--at least you're DOING something.

 

[dr.z]

I'm shadowing an MD to eventually go to DO school. What is a good minimum amount?

At least enough time so that the person shadowing you can really get to know you so that he/she can write a good letter.

 

[Dr.Detroit]

I'm shadowing an MD to eventually go to DO school.

You should try to shadow a DO. DO schools (at least pretend that they) want to know if you know the difference b/w MDs and DOs. So, shadow one or many long enough to learn what the difference can be. (Some secondaries from DO schools that I filled out even asked if I'd been treated by a DO and/or received OMM. So, change your primary care doc to a DO if they aren't one already...if you'd like to answer "yes" to this question.)

Also, many (most?) DO schools either explicitly require an LOR from a DO or strongly recommend that you provide an LOR from a DO. (I was offered LORs from two DOs after a single day of shadowing them.)

 

[jkhamlin]

For reals?! 😱 Hot damn, I'm having a heck of a time just trying to find one that'll let me shadow for an afternoon..... let alone 100 hours!

No one said getting into med school is easy, although it appears that way when you are working on it and you see others getting in.

It has taken me about 5 years, but I have managed to get about 202 hours. Not all of them were with the same doctor. I only had about 95 the first time I applied, and I was told that it was a big factor in my rejections. I was told that working as a CNA, of all things, would count, which IMHO is not a good premedical job. The problem with volunteering these days is that due to lawsuits and other issues, volunteers aren't allowed to do much of anything except man an information desk. What I did was I kept calling physicians, and asking around from professors, nurses, pharmacists, and anyone else I knew to find someone to shadow. I ended up getting the 202 hours most of which were in the last year, and then I also managed to get two DO's to write LOR's for me!

So the best advice I could give is to just keep working on it and you'll get there.

 

[Testy McAterson]

i still agree with this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=316425

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

100hrs is horse****. However long it takes until you feel like you know the doc/he knows you well is how long you should do it.

In my case, less than 20 hrs and I got a SOLID rec.

 

[jkhamlin]

100hrs is horse****. However long it takes until you feel like you know the doc/he knows you well is how long you should do it.

In my case, less than 20 hrs and I got a SOLID rec.

Call KCOM, KCUMB, and OSU and tell them that. 🙄 They don't think it is "horse****." I have had premed advisors suggest that 1000 hours of pre health experience including shadowing is best. It is getting more and more competitive out there, and med schools (especially Osteopathic) are looking at these kinds of things. Besides, the OP seems to have meant for application, not for a letter of recommendation.

Funny thing about shadowing, though; they really have no official way in most cases to verify it. I wonder how many applicants lie about it.

 

[Kuba]

maybe I am naive, but I feel like I got solid rec after 8 hours.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Call KCOM, KCUMB, and OSU and tell them that. 🙄 They don't think it is "horse****." I have had premed advisors suggest that 1000 hours of pre health experience including shadowing is best. It is getting more and more competitive out there, and med schools (especially Osteopathic) are looking at these kinds of things. Besides, the OP seems to have meant for application, not for a letter of recommendation.

Funny thing about shadowing, though; they really have no official way in most cases to verify it. I wonder how many applicants lie about it.

No, but I will call the two schools I applied to and got into that.


Wait, they already know.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

maybe I am naive, but I feel like I got solid rec after 8 hours.

Thats what Im talkin about.

 

[dr.kicia]

Call KCOM, KCUMB, and OSU and tell them that. 🙄 They don't think it is "horse****." I have had premed advisors suggest that 1000 hours of pre health experience including shadowing is best. It is getting more and more competitive out there, and med schools (especially Osteopathic) are looking at these kinds of things. Besides, the OP seems to have meant for application, not for a letter of recommendation.

Funny thing about shadowing, though; they really have no official way in most cases to verify it. I wonder how many applicants lie about it.

i highly doubt that would be true...1000 hr of clinical experiance...that would be crazy. If you would have time asside from work and school to do 4 hr a week volunteering it would take you almost 5 years to get 1000 hr....so best bet would be to start in hs...come on...how many ppl out of those who get addmitted acctually do that?
And what about those who have families, bills to pay and little time asside from holding 3 jobs and doing their undergrad full time to do volunteer work for 5 years?

No body i know who got into med school did 1000 hr of clinical experiance...it was more like 150-200.

 

[Kuba]

i highly doubt that would be true...1000 hr of clinical experiance...that would be crazy. If you would have time asside from work and school to do 4 hr a week volunteering it would take you almost 5 years to get 1000 hr....so best bet would be to start in hs...come on...how many ppl out of those who get addmitted acctually do that?
And what about those who have families, bills to pay and little time asside from holding 3 jobs and doing their undergrad full time to do volunteer work for 5 years?

No body i know who got into med school did 1000 hr of clinical experiance...it was more like 150-200.

im pretty sure I have over 1000 working in the ER, but my grades suffered.

 

[dr.kicia]

im pretty sure I have over 1000 working in the ER, but my grades suffered.

yeah but not everybody has a healthfield related job...no?
Like in my case the only way i am able to get clinical experiance is through shadowing or volunteering. Adding full time school and jobs to the equasion the most i can do is 4 hr a week...Now if i wasn't in the US alone and had someone supporting me financially then yeah i could probobly even volunteer for 30 hr a week...but i can't...and i think that many ppl are in a similiar situation so requiring applicants to do 1000 hr of volunteering would seem a little unfair.

 

[Kuba]

yeah but not everybody has a healthfield related job...no?
Like in my case the only way i am able to get clinical experiance is through shadowing or volunteering. Adding full time school and jobs to the equasion the most i can do is 4 hr a week...Now if i wasn't in the US alone and had someone supporting me financially then yeah i could probobly even volunteer for 30 hr a week...but i can't...and i think that many ppl are in a similiar situation so requiring applicants to do 1000 hr of volunteering would seem a little unfair.

i totally agree, and i doubt its accurate, i was just babbling

 

[mj1878]

I'm shadowing an MD to eventually go to DO school. What is a good minimum amount?

Try not to think of it in terms of "What's the bare minimum I need to do" and instead think of it as pretty much your last real patient contact for a while. It's a great opportunity to soak up as much as you can before you're buried in books.

 

[Testy McAterson]

Call KCOM, KCUMB, and OSU and tell them that. 🙄 They don't think it is "horse****." I have had premed advisors suggest that 1000 hours of pre health experience including shadowing is best. It is getting more and more competitive out there, and med schools (especially Osteopathic) are looking at these kinds of things. Besides, the OP seems to have meant for application, not for a letter of recommendation.

Funny thing about shadowing, though; they really have no official way in most cases to verify it. I wonder how many applicants lie about it.

are you sure you're not thinking physician assistant? lots of PA schools require 500-2000+ work or volunteer (shadow hours don't count--i've looked into PA) hours with references for the admissions people to read your app...

 

[dr.kicia]

i totally agree, and i doubt its accurate, i was just babbling

LOL...that's what i thought.
By the way congrats on your interview invite 😀

 

[jkhamlin]

i highly doubt that would be true...1000 hr of clinical experiance...that would be crazy. If you would have time asside from work and school to do 4 hr a week volunteering it would take you almost 5 years to get 1000 hr....so best bet would be to start in hs...come on...how many ppl out of those who get addmitted acctually do that?
And what about those who have families, bills to pay and little time asside from holding 3 jobs and doing their undergrad full time to do volunteer work for 5 years?

No body i know who got into med school did 1000 hr of clinical experiance...it was more like 150-200.

I didn't say I agree with the 1000 hours, that is just what I've been told by premed advisors. I agree with you, it would be almost impossible and I doubt it is done very often. I just pointed it out to illustrate that the 100 hours of shadowing is by no means extreme.

 

[Kuba]

I just want to point out that what I said earlier:

maybe I am naive, but I feel like I got solid rec after 8 hours.

is intended just if you are seeking a letter of rec. I definitely do not think 8 hours is enough for your clinical experience. You need to have a lot of clinical experience, and I dont know how to put a number on that amount.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

I didn't say I agree with the 1000 hours, that is just what I've been told by premed advisors.

Those premed advisors are wrong. If you want proof of that just go to the Osteopathic board and ask how many had 1000 VOLUNTEER hours of clinical experience before getting accepted. I would bet you'd get NO replies.

As for shadowing, 100 hours seems extreme to me. The bulk of your clinical experience should come from volunteering, not shadowing. I would say you need to shadow as many hours as you need to in order to get a strong LOR. For some, that can be 8-10 hours, for others, it might be 30-40 hours. Only you can gage it.

 

[Kuba]

Those premed advisors are wrong. If you want proof of that just go to the Osteopathic board and ask how many had 1000 VOLUNTEER hours of clinical experience before getting accepted. I would bet you'd get NO replies.

As for shadowing, 100 hours seems extreme to me. The bulk of your clinical experience should come from volunteering, not shadowing. I would say you need to shadow as many hours as you need to in order to get a strong LOR. For some, that can be 8-10 hours, for others, it might be 30-40 hours. Only you can gage it.

why does everyone use the word volunteer and not work?😕

 

[medmom]

I think the real answer is as much as reasonably possible. I have done quite a lot of shadowing in excess of 500 hours. That being said, the very first comment I got at my interview last week was "I am very impressed by the amount of shadowing you have". In some cases I think that the amount of shadowing, if it is a lot, can make you stand out when other things like grades can't. Just my IMO. Now by the end of the day I will know if that really made a difference, come on WVSOM!!!

 

[dr.kicia]

why does everyone use the word volunteer and not work?😕

yeah...i do not get it either...especially that my clinical experiance by volunteering looks like this:
Come in at 9 am...say hi to everybody.
and then for next 4 hours i am opening plastic bags( for the blod, urine,etc. samples to be wrapped in) and stock them in a nice christmass-tree-like pile...sometimes it will get exciting and i will move a patient from room 3 to room 5.whooooo hoooo.
I do not even get to see that much since most of the time while i am at the ER doctors just stand around and look for something to do. Maybe i just didn't have luck to buisy days....

Even if i done 1000 hr of this no one will tell me this is clinical experiance....unless we can start counting standing by the wall for 4 hr and watching ER like a movie as EC...there is no way i will ever understand why this is so loved by adcoms... but i have to admit there has been times when i felt useful doing volunteering...but i can count these on my two fingers.
I definetly think that working experiance would be much better.
I also have to mention that shadowing is really where i learned a lot of things and i plan to shadow untill i need to apply which is next june. As far as volunteering goes...i think i will be done doing that by the end of this semester. It just doesn't make that much sense to me plus i am very buisy even without it.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

I didn't say I agree with the 1000 hours, that is just what I've been told by premed advisors.

I wish more premed advisors would read SDN...
If anyone says to you 1000 hours
ask them to explain how you are supposed to get 1000 hours in four years.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

why does everyone use the word volunteer and not work?

Because even though you are doing the act of "working" while you volunteer your time, the term "work" is synonymous with getting paid for what you do and most of us don't. Most pre-meds volunteer at hospitals instead of becoming an EMT, CNA, etc.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Because even though you are doing the act of "working" while you volunteer your time, the term "work" is synonymous with getting paid for what you do and most of us don't. Most pre-meds volunteer at hospitals instead of becoming an EMT, CNA, etc.

That and, depending on where you volunteer, you may not be doing much work at all.

In the four hours per week I spent at the hospital, I may have worked for a total of one hour. There just wasn't enough to do.

 

[Kuba]

is working>volunteer or is volunteer>work. I can see both arguments. working gives you much better clinical exposure. Volunteering shows you care enough to donate your time for no compensation. any thoughts?

 

[Testy McAterson]

is working>volunteer or is volunteer>work. I can see both arguments. working gives you much better clinical exposure. Volunteering shows you care enough to donate your time for no compensation. any thoughts?

i think ur right. ultimately it seems schools want: 1.) to see that you have some exposure to the field and know what you're getting yourself into 2.) you to show that you are compassionate and giving and humble. i think you can prove these qualities through working OR volunteering. i write 'volunteering' in place of 'working' simply because a lot of students don't have the paperwork or cannot find a job in the field--and this obviously isn't required of them. if you can work in the field i wouldn't be too concerned to volunteer in the field--and vice versa. personally, i volunteered until i found a job in the field. that said, i still volunteer a couple hours a week (much less than i used to) but that's more because 1) the hospital i work at needs volunteers in the picu 2) i love playing with the little people and can't give it up. i don't think it matters so much WHAT you do as that you DO something to give you a little knowledge and show that you care.