how much upward mobility present in the med school to path residency transition

[meanderson]

How much upward mobility is possible(from ed school to a path program) in path matches. At this point I''m intersted in a dermpath fellowship, and I know that I need to go to a top path program to have a better shot at one. It looks like my choices in med school might come down to emory vs, the medical college of georgia.

Is it likely for a nonphd/md candidate with good step 1 scores and some elective path rotations at good programs(besdes emory) to make the transition from emory to an institution like MGH, Hopkins, etc. I know emory is often considered top 10-15 in path, so it's not like i would be dissapointed to end up there, but I'd like to know the possibilities of making the jump from a top 20 med school like emory to a top 5 path program.

And as for MCG, I know JH and MGH would probably be out of the question, but what about path programs like Emory, Duke, etc which aren't quite top 5 but are certainly top 10-15 programs. Is that jump possible?

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[yaah]

Originally posted by meanderson


Is it likely for a nonphd/md candidate with good step 1 scores and some elective path rotations at good programs(besdes emory) to make the transition from emory to an institution like MGH, Hopkins, etc. I know emory is often considered top 10-15 in path, so it's not like i would be dissapointed to end up there, but I'd like to know the possibilities of making the jump from a top 20 med school like emory to a top 5 path program.

This is a myth perpetuated by disciples of the religion of "top ten school" worship. These ratings are biased and subjective to many factors that have very little to do with an individual student or resident. If you are a smart person, interested in what you do, and can demonstrate both you will not have trouble. Residencies tend to prefer candidates who fit these characteristics. Where you went to med school is probably about the 10th most important factor. Where it matters is that if you are at a famous institution, residency directors may be familiar with those who have written your reference letters, etc. A harvard diploma will not mean very much unless you do well. Law school might be a different story. If you want an example, I am at UMass. I don't know where that is on everyone's list of rankings (don't care!), but I am certainly not encountering anything on my interview travels that suggest my school is a deterrent. To answer your question, yes. You are very likely to go to a "more superior" institution, if that is your priority.

I don't know how serious your comments are, but I strongly encourage you to not care so much about ratings and rankings. Success in medicine is based on your performance and the opportunities you create for yourself, not on your pedigree or your resume. The reputation of a certain residency program and the opportunities it provides are definitely important considerations, don't get me wrong, but a star performer at a smaller place will likely have more mobility than an average performer at another. Don't choose your med school based on what it will do for your reputation. Choose it based on how you fit in with the learning enviroment, style of teaching, city, other students, etc. Other stuff will sort itself out.

It is true that going to a residency program with better reputation is more likely to give you an opportunity of getting a dermpath fellowship, but mostly because these programs often have dermpath fellowships and programs like to take their own applicants. But people from other programs get these fellowships all the time too.

 

[meanderson]

yaah, thanks for the information. You are a state school......are you getting interviews at top 10 path programs(JH, MGH, etc).

I know it's possible to break into a top 25 path program from a state medical school if you excel, but it seems like most of the people at the top 5-10 programs who are better bets to get the dermpath fellowships are coming from top 20 medical schools.

And I really would like to save 100k by going to MCG. I just don't want it to sabatoge my chance of getting a dermpath fellowship one day....

 

[yaah]

I got interviews at all 17 I applied to, including JHU, Brigham, MGH.

Save the $100k if that will make a big difference to you personally (I imagine it would!). Unless you find that Emory offers you lots of opportunities. It may be true that most residents at these places come from "top 20" schools, but I am not so sure. It might be because people at state schools are more likely to go into primaryh care. Take my word for it, it really is user-dependent. The reputation of your school is not going to get you more interviews by itself.

 

[governaitor]

How much upward mobility is possible(from ed school to a path program) in path matches. At this point I''m intersted in a dermpath fellowship, and I know that I need to go to a top path program to have a better shot at one. It looks like my choices in med school might come down to emory vs, the medical college of georgia.

If I wasn't such a nice guy I would wonder WTF is your problem. You are not even in med school and on XMAS day you are stressing out about getting into Dermpath. How the hell could a pre-med think that he/she wants to do dermpath? I went to a bottom 10 med school and did well enough that I was invited to interview at every place I applied to including UCSF, MGH, blah blah blah...Moreover, I have been told that I was one of the strongest candidates in the strongest applicant pools they have seen in years by one of the "top ten" path programs because I worked hard and did well even at a bottom ten med school.

Actually you better go back to High School, and improve your SAT score and go volunteer to wash test tubes in some guy's lab that is doing NIH funded research in order to get your name on a couple papers so you can start over at a "top 5" college in order to get into a "top 5" med school in order to get into a top 5 path program so you can get a top 5 fellowship so you can be a top 5 derm path attending.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by governaitor
How the hell could a pre-med think that he/she wants to do dermpath? I went to a bottom 10 med school and did well enough that I was invited to interview at every place I applied to including UCSF, MGH, blah blah blah...

As a premed who also has aspirations for a career in pathology I certainly think it's reasonable to know early on which career path (no pun intended) you want to pursue.

As for which medical school to attend, I think it's easy as a premed to get "caught up" in the rankings game. If a person has the slightest desire for a research career the school you attend DOES seem to make a difference.

Personally though, I'll take a medical school acceptance where ever I can get it !!

 

[yaah]

I definitely agree that one should think about it, but realize that you will be exposed to other areas. Life changes as you go, by the time one gets to junior year in college you might decide med school isn't worth it for you. Then, if you get into med school, your choice of specialty will almost certainly change (even though so many people entering med school say they are "positive."). You may end up back, in the end, deciding that your original choice is the correct one, but it takes time and lots of thought.

This top 5, top 10, whatever bothers me a lot as well. It doesn't matter for the individual. If you will notice, there are no uniform criteria for rankings nor are there uniform agreements. There is no requirement to attend certain med schools or residency to do whatever you want when you finish. If you work hard and do well, you will get your rewards. There's a lot of "downward" mobility too. People who go to Harvard med who can't hack it and quit school. People who go to residency who can't hack it and quit or change specialties. People who have great credentials on paper but no one trusts as a doctor. Frankly, there are lots of smart people in the world. Going to a "top 5" place doesn't make any difference in that. A certain one of these may appeal to you for various reasons, but its top 5 ranking could have been attained for others.

By the way, I got the same speech as the Governaitor at some of these programs - I wonder how many of us there are!

 

[meanderson]

Originally posted by governaitor
If I wasn't such a nice guy I would wonder WTF is your problem. You are not even in med school and on XMAS day you are stressing out about getting into Dermpath. How the hell could a pre-med think that he/she wants to do dermpath? I went to a bottom 10 med school and did well enough that I was invited to interview at every place I applied to including UCSF, MGH, blah blah blah...Moreover, I have been told that I was one of the strongest candidates in the strongest applicant pools they have seen in years by one of the "top ten" path programs because I worked hard and did well even at a bottom ten med school.

Actually you better go back to High School, and improve your SAT score and go volunteer to wash test tubes in some guy's lab that is doing NIH funded research in order to get your name on a couple papers so you can start over at a "top 5" college in order to get into a "top 5" med school in order to get into a top 5 path program so you can get a top 5 fellowship so you can be a top 5 derm path attending.

Thanks for your informed opinion, but there isn't any need to be sarcastic about it. While I don't know for sure I want dermpath, it's very likely that I will want to match into a competitive specialty at a competitive place(not exactly an uncommon aspiration), and I just wanted to wanted to ask people(such as yourself) who have been or are going through this process how important med school rep is. It was perfectly legitimate question and I appreciate you relating your own experience.

 

[Doctor B.]

I don't want to sound too much like a broken record, but what was said above is very accurate. As long as you attend an accredited US medical school (I'm assuming you're applying to US schools; there are plenty of good ones around the world as well), where you go to medical school won't make much of a difference as to where you'll be able to go for residency. It's great that you're interested in pathology now but make sure to keep an open mind in case you discover something else that you enjoy more. I remember thinking I wanted to do family practice until I actually DID it and then I marked that off the list very quickly! However, I also had classmates who went to medical school with the sole purpose of wanting to go into forensics and they never wavered from that. So, I'm not saying don't change your mind I'm just saying don't be afraid to.