How much weight do courtesy interviews hold?

[MDPedigree]

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One of my buddies knows a doctor who knows many adcoms at various schools. Because of this, he was able to set him up with "courtesy interviews' at many of these schools. My only question is do these usually end up garnering acceptances? His stats are a little on the low side, a 3.2 with a 509, ORM with no research. But he is anxious and wants to know if he has a shot.

Thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

LCME holds a dim view of courtesy interviews that might result in an acceptance.

 

[MDPedigree]

LCME holds a dim view of courtesy interviews that might result in an acceptance.

Do you know how commonly this is the case? And usually is the person accepted someone who would be considered competitive otherwise? Thanks!

 

[gyngyn]

Do you know how commonly this is the case? And usually is the person accepted someone who would be considered competitive otherwise? Thanks!

Competitive applicants who are recommended by a donor/alum/trustee... are not courtesy interviews. They are high yield applicants (double entendre intended).
People who would never have been interviewed but for the intervention are what the LCME is sniffing for.

 

[gyngyn]

My impression is:
1) the intervention gets you looked at sooner, pushed forward in the queue.
2) an actual substantial recommendation from highly known and respected quantity such as donor/alum/trustee along with solid application would have a large impact.

This is a target in LCME evaluations. If the candidate would not have been interviewed but for the donor, there will be consequences (finally).

 

[Goro]

One of my buddies knows a doctor who knows many adcoms at various schools. Because of this, he was able to set him up with "informal interviews' at many of these schools, which included a tour. Some of the schools are top tier, some of them not. At some of these interviews they said they will let him know of a decision. My only question is do these usually end up garnering acceptances? He did not receive these interviews via AMCAS, and although he applied to these schools via AMCAS, he has not heard back. His stats are a little on the low side, a 3.2 with a 509, ORM with no research. I honestly don't think he would have been competitive enough to interview for any of these schools had it not been for these connections. But he is anxious and wants to know if he has a shot.

Thanks!

Courtesy interviews work like this:
You get a nice interview, followed by a polite spot on the wait list, which will be followed by an even more polite rejection at the end of the cycle.

So unless your friend has a large donation check, he should be making Plan B, or eyeing the newer DO schools.

 

[MDPedigree]

Courtesy interviews work like this:
You get a nice interview, followed by a polite spot on the wait list, which will be followed by an even more polite rejection at the end of the cycle.

So unless your friend has a large donation check, he should be making Plan B, or eyeing the newer DO schools.

Just out of curiosity, how large of a donation would make a difference. Let's say you have competitive numbers for said school.

 

[•Syzygy•]

he does have a 509 mcat though...so why would he have to go for the newer DO schools?

 

[Goro]

Six figures. Labs are expensive, as are endowed chairs.

Just out of curiosity, how large of a donation would make a difference. Let's say you have competitive numbers for said school.

The 3.2 GPA is lethal at my school and a good number of others.

he does have a 509 mcat though...so why would he have to go for the newer DO schools?

 

[LizzyM]

This is a target in LCME evaluations. If the candidate would not have been interviewed but for the donor, there will be consequences (finally).

Is this new? Some years back I interviewed someone who was <10th percentile in MCAT and GPA. Had a LOR from a relative who was a generous donor. I was outvoted on the committee. To my chagrin the applicant matriculated, graduated in 4 years, matched well. Frankly, our floor is high and we can admit "lesser" applicants who will do well.

On the other hand, we had the infamous case many years ago of the Florida dean who admitted a guy whose dad had political connections to the governor, etc over the objections of the med admissions committee. Guy also graduated. Dad, meanwhile, ended up in prison for something like tax evasion and campaign fraud (karma).

How will LCME police this?

 

[gyngyn]

Is this new? Some years back I interviewed someone who was <10th percentile in MCAT and GPA. Had a LOR from a relative who was a generous donor. I was outvoted on the committee. To my chagrin the applicant matriculated, graduated in 4 years, matched well. Frankly, our floor is high and we can admit "lesser" applicants who will do well.

On the other hand, we had the infamous case many years ago of the Florida dean who admitted a guy whose dad had political connections to the governor, etc over the objections of the med admissions committee. Guy also graduated. Dad, meanwhile, ended up in prison for something like tax evasion and campaign fraud (karma).

How will LCME police this?

Every review cycle seems to bring a new emphasis. Apparently, "courtesy interviews" and waitlist management are this cycle's themes.
Even though courtesy interviews have never been considered a "best practice," there has never been the will to do anything about them.
Now they want to know that those who received "irregular" interviews do not have a shot at acceptance.
They will ask committee members how these situations are handled.

 

[Sagacious Scholar]

Hey all! A couple friends and I have a few questions pertaining to this topic and would appreciate any insight:

So if an applicant who has competitive stats for a school and has been recommended by an alumni receives an interview, would said applicant's interview be considered a courtesy interview? Is it possible that the applicant would have been invited to interview anyway, but moved further up the queue due to the recommendation? Is the time between secondary submission and interview invite any indication of whether it is a courtesy interview? Are courtesy interviews generally offered towards the end of the cycle?

Thanks!

 

[•Syzygy•]

Every review cycle seems to bring a new emphasis. Apparently, "courtesy interviews" and waitlist management are this cycle's themes.
Even though courtesy interviews have never been considered a "best practice," there has never been the will to do anything about them.
Now they want to know that those who received "irregular" interviews do not have a shot at acceptance.
They will ask committee members how these situations are handled.

can you elaborate on what you meant by "waitlist management"

i am intrigued by the concept of cycle themes. interesting.

 

[gyngyn]

can you elaborate on what you meant by "waitlist management"

i am intrigued by the concept of cycle themes. interesting.

The waitlist must be managed in a way that is consistent with school policy. The admissions committee must be responsible for the final decision. No single individual can manage the waitlist.

 

[gyngyn]

Hey all! A couple friends and I have a few questions pertaining to this topic and would appreciate any insight:

So if an applicant who has competitive stats for a school and has been recommended by an alumni receives an interview, would said applicant's interview be considered a courtesy interview? Is it possible that the applicant would have been invited to interview anyway, but moved further up the queue due to the recommendation? Is the time between secondary submission and interview invite any indication of whether it is a courtesy interview? Are courtesy interviews generally offered towards the end of the cycle?

Thanks!

Courtesy interviews are those granted because of money or connections when the applicant would not otherwise have been offered an interview.
The interval from submission to invitation would not indicate whether the interview was a "courtesy."
The timing of courtesy interviews varies, but there are at least a few good reasons to offer them late...

 

[Sagacious Scholar]

Courtesy interviews are those granted because of money or connections when the applicant would not otherwise have been offered an interview.
The interval from submission to invitation would not indicate whether the interview was a "courtesy."
The timing of courtesy interviews varies, but there are at least a few good reasons to offer them late...

Thanks for the quick response!

So, ultimately is there any way to determine whether an interview is a courtesy if the alumni-recommended applicant has stats around a school's median (3.85+ and 516+)?

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for the quick response!

So, ultimately is there any way to determine whether an interview is a courtesy if the alumni-recommended applicant has stats around a school's median (3.85+ and 516+)?

I think that if you are close to the median, it is plausible that you would have gotten an interview on your own.

if you had a 2.85/496 then we'd raise an eyebrow, eh?

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the quick response!

So, ultimately is there any way to determine whether an interview is a courtesy if the alumni-recommended applicant has stats around a school's median (3.85+ and 516+)?

Impossible

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just out of curiosity, how large of a donation would make a difference. Let's say you have competitive numbers for said school.

7 figures.

has been recommended by an alumni

Eh just a recommendation by a former student? I would doubt that was even factored in at all.

 

[Anonimus.Maximus]

Every review cycle seems to bring a new emphasis. Apparently, "courtesy interviews" and waitlist management are this cycle's themes.
Even though courtesy interviews have never been considered a "best practice," there has never been the will to do anything about them.
Now they want to know that those who received "irregular" interviews do not have a shot at acceptance.
They will ask committee members how these situations are handled.

I had no clue that the LCME had the authority to audit the admissions process, but I'm glad to hear it. I also had no clue that "courtesy interviews" were an established practice. I opened this thread thinking it was about IIs received after "in the area" letters.

 

[Kisangani]

I had low stats when I applied (3.3/28 with an even lower science gpa) and was accepted after getting what some might refer to as a "courtesy interview." It was at the school that is affiliated with the hospital where both of my parents practice (one of whom holds an administrative/academic position). Not only that, I was initially waitlisted and only got off of it after a few phone calls were made on my behalf. It makes a very big difference to have connections no matter what people on here want to believe.

 

[•Syzygy•]

I had low stats when I applied (3.3/28 with an even lower science gpa) and was accepted after getting what some might refer to as a "courtesy interview." It was at the school that is affiliated with the hospital where both of my parents practice (one of whom holds an administrative/academic position). Not only that, I was initially waitlisted and only got off of it only after a few phone calls were made on my behalf. It makes a very big difference to have connections no matter what people on here want to believe.

i dont think most people doubt that connections play a huge role in just about everything

 

[mvenus929]

I had low stats when I applied (3.3/28 with an even lower science gpa) and was accepted after getting what some might refer to as a "courtesy interview." It was at the school that is affiliated with the hospital where both of my parents practice (one of whom holds an administrative/academic position). Not only that, I was initially waitlisted and only got off of it after a few phone calls were made on my behalf. It makes a very big difference to have connections no matter what people on here want to believe.

I don't think anyone is saying that connections don't make a difference, but those who don't have anything to their application who get accepted because of these 'connections' are rare. I had a student stay with me when I was a first year student. She got waitlisted initially, and voiced to me later in the season that she was still very interested in attending our school. My dean of student affairs also happened to be the dean of admissions, so I sent him an email saying that she clicked well with my roommate and I, and I thought she'd make a great addition to the class. She got off the waitlist the following day. She ended up going on to be the class president and matched well.

There are lots of reasons an applicant with low stats could end up getting accepted, if the adcom felt they could make a contribution to the school (and would successfully make it through). There's a lot of ambiguity in that, which makes it hard to tell how much pull the connections really have. If the student above had not made a decent impression with her actual interviewers, it's entirely possible my dean would've said 'Thanks for the info, but she's not high on the list of people we want.'