how much weight does a 3.1 gpa have from a "top institution"? also Q about writing separate PS?

[jankodejenko]

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I have a 3.1 sgpa unfortunately from taking science courses at uc Berkeley, does anyone know how much weight would be put into consideration? assuming I get a 19 or 20 on the DAT.


also am I only allowed to write one personal statement? i mean I do have preferences for schools but it seems that on the application you could only submit one Personal statement, where it then branches out to all the schools you apply to.

 

[weaselodeath]

I have a 3.1 sgpa unfortunately from taking science courses at uc Berkeley, does anyone know how much weight would be put into consideration? assuming I get a 19 or 20 on the DAT.


also am I only allowed to write one personal statement? i mean I do have preferences for schools but it seems that on the application you could only submit one Personal statement, where it then branches out to all the schools you apply to.

I don't know anything about Berkeley, but you will get your chance to write more specifically for most schools. The personal statement you submit to AADSAS goes out to every school to which you apply, but many schools ask for extra essays on other related prompts as part of their secondary or supplemental application processes.

 

[SweetMelonPreDent]

youre going to need a 21+ AA DAT. Apply to a lot of schools, banging extras and a solid PS.

 

[doc toothache]

If you knock the DAT out of the park, it might lend some credence to a low gpa from a "top institution".

 

[FanOfCostco]

Zero weight. It doesn't matter if your 3.1 from Berkeley or east bay. 3.1 is 3.1

 

[SweetMelonPreDent]

Zero weight. It doesn't matter if your 3.1 from Berkeley or east bay. 3.1 is 3.1

This is true. This is just a number on a paper.

However I heard that committees do not like Community College credits for the prereqs. But is only after they look at your app.

 

[weaselodeath]

If you knock the DAT out of the park, it might lend some credence to a low gpa from a "top institution".

That's a good narrative.

 

[887194]

A low GPA is still a low GPA regardless of institution. You will need a high DAT score to compensate - ideally a 22+. Apply broadly and things should work out.

 

[predent2151]

Your school really doesn’t matter that much. The only time they would think “well his GPA might be deflated” is if you were majoring in some type of engineering or physics, something notoriously hard for maintaining a high GPA and then got like 23+ on the DAT. If you had a 20 AA and 3.1 nobody would care what school you went to because if the curriculum was that much harder you should’ve done drastically better on the DAT.

 

[Steeezy]

I'm going to disagree with the sentiment here that your undergrad doesn't matter. An excellent DAT score shows that you learned even if you weren't perfect on your exams in undergrad. It's something that cannot be measured with stats and is only discussed behind closed doors, but when comparing a gpa from Berkeley vs. wherever, with all other things held equal (ECs, DAT, LORs), you have to think there is an advantage for the Berkeley student.

 

[FanOfCostco]

This is true. This is just a number on a paper.

However I heard that committees do not like Community College credits for the prereqs. But is only after they look at your app.

Community college credits are bad mmkayyyy

 

[Medin2017]

I'm going to disagree with the sentiment here that your undergrad doesn't matter. An excellent DAT score shows that you learned even if you weren't perfect on your exams in undergrad. It's something that cannot be measured with stats and is only discussed behind closed doors, but when comparing a gpa from Berkeley vs. wherever, with all other things held equal (ECs, DAT, LORs), you have to think there is an advantage for the Berkeley student.

Yea when all else is equal. However, a 3.1 being better than another school's 3.1 isn't going to help your case much if at all. And the consensus here was that destroying the DAT would tell the true story, so I think you're in agreement with the rest of the posters.

 

[FanOfCostco]

Yea when all else is equal. However, a 3.1 being better than another school's 3.1 isn't going to help your case much if at all. And the consensus here was that destroying the DAT would tell the true story, so I think you're in agreement with the rest of the posters.

i think we can also agree that the problem is the 3.1. not from the university. after all, its not like ochem reactions are different when taught at berkeley vs sf state....last i checked at least

 

[Medin2017]

i think we can also agree that the problem is the 3.1. not from the university. after all, its not like ochem reactions are different when taught at berkeley vs sf state....last i checked at least

Yes, and if anything, even if the school is good, you could make the argument that the applicant didn't belong at said school or major if they got a subpar GPA without even considering the level of difficulty of the school.

Not to further rain on your parade- ace the DAT and get an upward trend.

 

[SmileswithKammy]

I have a 3.1 sgpa unfortunately from taking science courses at uc Berkeley, does anyone know how much weight would be put into consideration? assuming I get a 19 or 20 on the DAT.


also am I only allowed to write one personal statement? i mean I do have preferences for schools but it seems that on the application you could only submit one Personal statement, where it then branches out to all the schools you apply to.

Yea unfortunately most graduate programs, dentistry aside, do not care what school you are coming from. They want to see your work ethic, and by having a 3.1 from Berkeley doesn't mean its equivalent to 3.7 at a state school. Aim for a 22+ on your DAT and kill your application.

 

[Futuredentist(hopefully)]

Yes i agree with most of what was said above^ with a low gpa you want to get at least a 22 on DAT. I do hear some schools condiser higher DAT scores over gpa so might want to look into those schools

 

[Lau Sang]

Here's my take on it:

Your 3.1 is probably worth more than a 3.1 at some no-name school, but you can't really say your 3.1 is better than a 3.4 at that no-name school. There's just no way to quantify any of it. SoSgraduating from Berkeley won't really help you except against those on the lower end of the gpa spectrum.

Don't expect your ug to give you any appreciable advantage and just do your best on the DAT. Make no mistake, you do have something to prove with it. Science is science no matter what school you go to, and DAT will be the best indication for revealing whether or not you learned well. Please do update us when you take your DAT though.

 

[predent2151]

Yeah science is science. The name of your institution says nothing about how rigorous it is. I know some “big name” schools that give multiple choice organic exams. Multiple choice, blows my mind.

 

[sobertiger]

i think we can also agree that the problem is the 3.1. not from the university. after all, its not like ochem reactions are different when taught at berkeley vs sf state....last i checked at least

Of course the material is the same, but it is significantly easier to get a good grade at SF State because at Berkeley you're curved against some of the hardest working students in the nation, and because the curve is so merciless.

Since they want the grades to be distributed like a bell curve, they make the exams ridiculously difficult in order to keep the mean at bay, knowing that with such cutthroat, smart students an ordinary exam would skew the curve heavily to the right.

The reason for the strict curve is that with a huge number of incoming freshmen and so many of them trying to be pre-med, pre-dental, etc., there isn't enough room for everyone in chemistry/biology majors. As such, the weak are weeded out without mercy in the pre-req classes. The Chem series is notorious for this. For example, a typical Chem 1A class at Berkeley would start with 1500 people, and by the end of Chem 3B (orgo 2) there would only be 400 left, with only 150 getting Cs or better. It is no surprise, then, that the average GPAs for bio/chem majors at Berkeley are so low (2.8 for Bio [the lowest at Cal], 3.02 for Molecular and Cell Bio, 3.15 for Chem, 3.16 for Chem Engineering).

 

[sobertiger]

Yeah science is science. The name of your institution says nothing about how rigorous it is. I know some “big name” schools that give multiple choice organic exams. Multiple choice, blows my mind.

If you think multiple choice exams are easy, you've never taken a truly difficult multiple choice exam (DAT included). Some of the most difficult exams are in multiple choice format. There are zero partial credits given, and depending on how smart and cruel the professor is the choices can be impossibly vague. The Chem 1A midterm I took at a post-bac is a child's play compared to a Chem 1A midterm at Berkeley (5 short answer, 21 multiple choice), and I'm not exaggerating. Those exams are engineered to fail people.

 

[Like_Groceries]

Zero weight. It doesn't matter if your 3.1 from Berkeley or east bay. 3.1 is 3.1

A 3.1 isn't just a 3.1... If that were the case, then pre-reqs from community colleges wouldn't be an issue.

Idk why this thread is pushing the "science is science" anywhere you go, because that's not true. I'm 100% sure science courses at Berkley are taught more rigorously then science courses at "..... state university"

 

[predent2151]

If you think multiple choice exams are easy, you've never taken a truly difficult multiple choice exam (DAT included). Some of the most difficult exams are in multiple choice format. There are zero partial credits given, and depending on how smart and cruel the professor is the choices can be impossibly vague. The Chem 1A midterm I took at a post-bac is a child's play compared to a Chem 1A midterm at Berkeley (5 short answer, 21 multiple choice), and I'm not exaggerating. Those exams are engineered to fail

Got a 27 on OC and a 99 percentile on the ACS exam. Tutored it for quite awhile. I can say with absolute certainty that multiple choice organic exams are easier. The answer is on the page. A retro synthesis problem is not nearly as difficult when reagents are provided on the test for you. For solving unknowns learning how to use NMR, IR, and mass spec to truly solve an unknown structure for a free response test is millions of times more difficult if your test is free response. If it’s multiple choice you can simply check structures instead of truly learning how to piece a molecule together. We actually had a professor come to my college and bring his old tests from a different college. The head of the department made him change the multiple choice exams because they are indeed to easy. Look at Wisconsin’s tests online or MIT, significantly more difficult than any multiple choice tests I’ve seen.

 

[caloc]

Aim for a higher DAT score. I inflated my low GPA from Berkeley with classes from community college (close to 70 units) and received 7 interviews. No one has questioned me about it so far.

 

[Lau Sang]

This is what I said:

Science is science no matter what school you go to, and DAT will be the best indication for revealing whether or not you learned well.

Different schools will of course have some variance in levels of rigor which will have some affect on your gpa. And the same can be said about different professors in the same school btw. Trying to account for this when looking at the gpa is really hard. But what you learn is literally the same, no matter the rigor, so that's why DAT performance is important.

 

[Tim_Whatley]

My UG degree is from Umich, which is similar caliber to UC Berkeley (top-5 public undergrads). As is being discussed in this thread, science courses at these institutions are graded on a bell curve. You're competing (in the case of Umich) against students with an average incoming GPA of 3.87 and ACT score 50th percentile range of 31-34 (that's 96th-99th percentile of the exam). Science courses are curved to a B-. The kids who are getting low B's at these institutions could very likely perform at the top of the crowd at a state university. Think about it: the middle of the bar student still has an average 3.87 and 96th-99th percentile test scores. That's not even the top-gun student... and there are a lot of those.

In my Calc II class (notoriously hard at Umich), we were prepping for the final. The last day before the final, as a warmup, we were given the other state school's Calc II final from the previous year. It was a complete joke. Everyone was laughing afterwards, and it really put things into perspective.

Ahhh, U of M arrogance at its finest. You know how to tell if someone you meet is a UM grad? A: They'll tell you in the first 10 seconds of the conversation.

If only your football team could prepare for "that other state school" the way your Calc II class prepares for their final.

Go Green, sucka. Say hi to Harbaugh for me.

 

[SmileswithKammy]

Ahhh, U of M arrogance at its finest. You know how to tell if someone you meet is a UM grad? A: They'll tell you in the first 10 seconds of the conversation.

If only your football team could prepare for "that other state school" the way your Calc II class prepares for their final.

Go Green, sucka. Say hi to Harbaugh for me.

Ouch.

 

[Tim_Whatley]

Hahaha, touché. Was trying to dodge this type of conversation by not directly referring to MSU. It's unfortunate your basketball team can't live up to your rank (0-2 against us, even in East Lansing). But hey, to each his own.

Fortunately I didn't go to school to play sports.

Neither did I, which is why I can respect some old-fashioned sports banter/trash talk. I do not, however, tolerate unnecessary, incessant attacks on my university’s academic reputation.

Incidentally, I got into your beloved UM but chose MSU because many family members attended and I felt at home there. And the women don’t stimulate a gag reflex. Take care

 

[Tim_Whatley]

That’s fair. I wasn’t attacking your University’s academic reputation, I’m sorry if I came across that way. The calc II story is something that did actually happen. I was attempting to contribute to the original point of the thread with it. I also wrote that first post with the phrase “other state university”, of which there are several in Michigan (all good universities IMO). I was trying to make a generic point. I wasn’t trying to attack MSU. I too have multiple family members who are MSU grads.

Anyways, apologies for the de-railing of this thread.

Alright, we’re cool. Good luck with everything and enjoy the basketball tournament.

 

[sobertiger]

Got a 27 on OC and a 99 percentile on the ACS exam. Tutored it for quite awhile. I can say with absolute certainty that multiple choice organic exams are easier. The answer is on the page. A retro synthesis problem is not nearly as difficult when reagents are provided on the test for you. For solving unknowns learning how to use NMR, IR, and mass spec to truly solve an unknown structure for a free response test is millions of times more difficult if your test is free response. If it’s multiple choice you can simply check structures instead of truly learning how to piece a molecule together. We actually had a professor come to my college and bring his old tests from a different college. The head of the department made him change the multiple choice exams because they are indeed to easy. Look at Wisconsin’s tests online or MIT, significantly more difficult than any multiple choice tests I’ve seen.

I see your original comment was regarding ochem. For ochem, multiple choice is definitely easier. That's why ochem exams tend to have more free response questions.

 

[predent2151]

I see your original comment was regarding ochem. For ochem, multiple choice is definitely easier. That's why ochem exams tend to have more free response questions.

Then we’re in agreement lol. Yeah I was just saying I’m baffled that some schools actually give full multiple choice tests for organic. I won’t mention which university but I know of a top school whose exams are absolute jokes.