How much weight does a good comlex score carry?

[Orangeyouglad]

I apologize if this comes off rude or braggy, but I really haven’t gotten a solid answer to this question. Basically what the title says, how much does it carry in terms of residency competitiveness with the upcoming merger? I got a good solid usmle (238) and a very good comlex (679.)

To give you all some examples of what I’m asking, does my competitiveness jump enough to go from DR to IR? Gen surg to ortho? Gen surgery anywhere to gen surgery California? That kind of thing. Sorry if this still doesn’t make sense, I’m a little loopy.

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[DrWhozits]

I apologize if this comes off rude or braggy, but I really haven’t gotten a solid answer to this question. Basically what the title says, how much does it carry in terms of residency competitiveness with the upcoming merger? I got a good solid usmle (238) and a very good comlex (679.)

To give you all some examples of what I’m asking, does my competitiveness jump enough to go from DR to IR? Gen surg to ortho? Gen surgery anywhere to gen surgery California? That kind of thing. Sorry if this still doesn’t make sense, I’m a little loopy.

In short, probably not much. Since you took the USMLE, that’s more or less what they are going to look at. Especially if you are talking about DR, IR, Ortho or GS.

You are a 238. It’s my understanding that the 679 is just a pretty number that you can feel really good about, but PDs are gonna skip right over it.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

In short, probably not much. Since you took the USMLE, that’s more or less what they are going to look at. Especially if you are talking about DR, IR, Ortho or GS.

You are a 238. It’s my understanding that the 679 is just a pretty number that you can feel really good about, but PDs are gonna skip right over it.

Thanks for the frank and honest reply. I figured that would be the case but wasn’t sure

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t that COMLEX score go a long way in terms of applying to all the former AOA ortho programs that crossed over post merger? Would it be worth applying to all former AOA ortho programs plus traditional ACGME gen surg as backup?

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I apologize if this comes off rude or braggy, but I really haven’t gotten a solid answer to this question. Basically what the title says, how much does it carry in terms of residency competitiveness with the upcoming merger? I got a good solid usmle (238) and a very good comlex (679.)

To give you all some examples of what I’m asking, does my competitiveness jump enough to go from DR to IR? Gen surg to ortho? Gen surgery anywhere to gen surgery California? That kind of thing. Sorry if this still doesn’t make sense, I’m a little loopy.

In short, no.


ACGME PDs don't really give a **** about a very good COMLEX - many don't even recognise what a good COMLEX score is - and given the presence of a USMLE score probably won't even look at the COMLEX. Your competitiveness for hard-to-match specialties in the ACGME world have nothing to do with your COMLEX.

 

[DrWhozits]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t that COMLEX score go a long way in terms of applying to all the former AOA ortho programs that crossed over post merger? Would it be worth applying to all former AOA ortho programs plus traditional ACGME gen surg as backup?

^^^this is a good point.

I didn’t even think of the former AOA programs. I’m not sure if this is true or not, but it seems like it would be the case.

 

[Preston Garvey]

^^^this is a good point.

I didn’t even think of the former AOA programs. I’m not sure if this is true or not, but it seems like it would be the case.

It is the case. Most DO program directors dont know what a USMLE score means. I interviewed at 10 DO ENT programs and only two asked if I had taken the USMLE. Having a good USMLE will open a lot more doors than a good COMLEX given that there will not be many former AOA surgical programs after 2020; however a good COMLEX will still impress at these programs.

 

[Jinxapotato]

I asked a few PD about this... I got a 248 Step 1 and a 611 COMLEX, so about similar percentiles, but pretty much all the PD told me if you have a USMLE they probably won't even look at your COMLEX as long as you passed.

PS: I am only applying ACGME

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

ZERO considering you have a USMLE score.

 

[W19]

As of now, you are ok for ACGME DR and GS... You are not competitive for IR and Ortho.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I apologize if this comes off rude or braggy, but I really haven’t gotten a solid answer to this question. Basically what the title says, how much does it carry in terms of residency competitiveness with the upcoming merger? I got a good solid usmle (238) and a very good comlex (679.)

To give you all some examples of what I’m asking, does my competitiveness jump enough to go from DR to IR? Gen surg to ortho? Gen surgery anywhere to gen surgery California? That kind of thing. Sorry if this still doesn’t make sense, I’m a little loopy.

Decent chances at ACGME DR and GS. Solid chances at AOA Ortho programs. If you’re set on Ortho, you need to do away rotations at AOA Ortho programs and network big time.

IR is very slim for you.

 

[NurWollen]

Decent chances at ACGME DR and GS. Solid chances at AOA Ortho programs. If you’re set on Ortho, you need to do away rotations at AOA Ortho programs and network big time.

IR is very slim for you.

Very sad that they made IR a separate residency from DR.

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[Orangeyouglad]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm more set on the GS/ortho so this helps (seems like GS is more solid.)

As far as the DR/IR thing I was just giving an example of how my question was framed, ie. does that comlex score allow for a jump in competitiveness of that magnitude. And I think ya'll answered that lol

Now if I can ask all your opinions on this, do the scores make one more competitive for GS in a desirable location like CA? I'd like to stay close to family.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Now that I think about it, if anything it would make more of a difference if it was previously an AOA residency huh

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Now that I think about it, if anything it would make more of a difference if it was previously an AOA residency huh

If we still had AOA, I would say you would match into ortho if you had 4 auditions. AOA didn't get to see your USMLE and I have anecdotally heard the door opens at 650. Then it all becomes your audition.

 

[DrWhozits]

For gen surg, I’m sure there are community programs in CA or at least the West Coast/AZ that you would be competitive for.

That area of the country is stupidly competitive, so you are most likely shut out of the UCs, UW, OHSU type programs.

 

[shadowlightfox]

As of now, you are ok for ACGME DR and GS... You are not competitive for IR and Ortho.

What does it take for IR? If he's competitive for DR, can't he land first DR and then get through IR via fellowship?

 

[W19]

What does it take for IR? If he's competitive for DR, can't he land first DR and then get through IR via fellowship?

Definitely... That is the easiest way to do IR. Integrated IR was arguably the most competitive specialty to match into in 2018.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

 

[shadowlightfox]

Definitely... That is the easiest way to do IR. Integrated IR was arguably the most competitive specialty to match into in 2018.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

I was looking at the osteopathic students data who matched into it, and apparently the credentials were surprisingly much lower, to the point where people who didn't match had higher average board scores and more research than those who did.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

AOA didn't get to see your USMLE and I have anecdotally heard the door opens at 650.

Eh more like 600. The mean COMLEX for ortho in 2017 was 598

 

[bic_atlantis]

Eh more like 600. The mean COMLEX for ortho in 2017 was 598

where did you get those numbers from?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

where did you get those numbers from?

MSU shared a document with its students that had the 2017 COMLEX means for different specialties on it. It was shared with me by one of their students. I’ll see if I can dig it up.

The 600 opening the ortho door comes from ortho residents. At that point it’s all about the audition and other things you have.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

MSU shared a document with its students that had the 2017 COMLEX means for different specialties on it. It was shared with me by one of their students. I’ll see if I can dig it up.

The 600 opening the ortho door comes from ortho residents. At that point it’s all about the audition and other things you have.

Your info is outdated. I understand your thought process bc it is in line with mine and my source of info from current residents.

However, you need to peruse through your links again. Matched Ortho Comlex 1 average is now 680 w/ unmatched Ortho Comlex 1 average being 600.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Matched Ortho Comlex 1 average is now 680 w/ unmatched Ortho Comlex 1 average being 600.

I’m going to need a source for that seeing as I have one for my info.

If you are using the NRMP data that isn’t correct. The 680 average is only for the 4 applicants that matched MD ortho and the unmatched is 580, which again is only for ortho programs through the NRMP match. It doesn’t include the applicants that matched in the AOA match (where the vast majority of ortho spots were). There were only 6 former AOA spots in the NRMP match and they all went to MDs.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I’m going to need a source for that seeing as I have one for my info.

NRMP 2018 Ortho Matched Data for DO students

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

NRMP 2018 Ortho Matched Data for DO students

Yeah you’re wrong. That is only for the NRMP match.... the vast majority of ortho programs filled during the AOA match, even the ones already ACGME accredited. Only 6 spots total in the NRMP match were at former AOA programs.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Yeah you’re wrong. That is only for the NRMP match.... the vast majority of ortho programs filled during the AOA match, even the ones already ACGME accredited. Only 6 spots total in the NRMP match were at former AOA programs.

That makes sense. I was confused about the discrepancy from my sources vs the data. Thanks for clearing it up for future Ortho interested applicants.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

Yeah you’re wrong. That is only for the NRMP match.... the vast majority of ortho programs filled during the AOA match, even the ones already ACGME accredited. Only 6 spots total in the NRMP match were at former AOA programs.

Sooo what does that mean for 2020 grads?

 

[UnoMas]

Sooo what does that mean for 2020 grads?

Isn't 2020 is the first year that MD and DO match will happen at the same time? That means DO students who aspire to go into Ortho should have solid Step 1/Step 2 scores, COMLEX level 1 and 2 scores, some research and pubs, 6-7 audition rotations lined up between both formerly DO programs and a few MD programs and a SOLID backup plan in case they fail to match. It will be an interesting Charting Outcomes to read in 2020.

 

[HueySmith]

I’m going to need a source for that seeing as I have one for my info.

If you are using the NRMP data that isn’t correct. The 680 average is only for the 4 applicants that matched MD ortho and the unmatched is 580, which again is only for ortho programs through the NRMP match. It doesn’t include the applicants that matched in the AOA match (where the vast majority of ortho spots were). There were only 6 former AOA spots in the NRMP match and they all went to MDs.

Where do you see this data?

 

[shadowlightfox]

Isn't 2020 is the first year that MD and DO match will happen at the same time? That means DO students who aspire to go into Ortho should have solid Step 1/Step 2 scores, COMLEX level 1 and 2 scores, some research and pubs, 6-7 audition rotations lined up between both formerly DO programs and a few MD programs and a SOLID backup plan in case they fail to match. It will be an interesting Charting Outcomes to read in 2020.

Damn son. I know that there's some level of exaggeration scattered here and there, but even then it's scary.

 

[UnoMas]

Damn son. I know that there's some level of exaggeration scattered here and there, but even then it's scary.

I don't personally know anyone who has applied or is applying to MD ortho. DO side, I know 2 who successfully matched last year, 1 is applying this year, 6 audition rotations are the norms and most of the time, those will be the only 6 interviews they have. It sounds like exaggeration but if I were applying to Ortho for the 2020 match, that'd be my exact game plan.
It's not rare to see an MD candidate to have good board scores, research and 2-3 audition rotations for ortho. You need to match/exceed their prowness or you'll fall behind.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Isn't 2020 is the first year that MD and DO match will happen at the same time? That means DO students who aspire to go into Ortho should have solid Step 1/Step 2 scores, COMLEX level 1 and 2 scores, some research and pubs, 6-7 audition rotations lined up between both formerly DO programs and a few MD programs and a SOLID backup plan in case they fail to match. It will be an interesting Charting Outcomes to read in 2020.

This. I know 2 people applying MD ortho (also applying AOA) and this is their strategy. If you want ortho post merger you need to look like an ortho applicant on paper.

Where do you see this data?

@DrMcLovin shared the data for the 6 spots, and the 4 DOs that matched in the NRMP match went to UW, LSU, TTech, and UTMB. Therefore the 6 spots went to MDs.

 

[Scrubs101]

I don't personally know anyone who has applied or is applying to MD ortho. DO side, I know 2 who successfully matched last year, 1 is applying this year, 6 audition rotations are the norms and most of the time, those will be the only 6 interviews they have. It sounds like exaggeration but if I were applying to Ortho for the 2020 match, that'd be my exact game plan.
It's not rare to see an MD candidate to have good board scores, research and 2-3 audition rotations for ortho. You need to match/exceed their prowness or you'll fall behind.

Dont most schools have a restriction on the amount of rotations you can do in a specific specialty? Or is it just my school? Ours used to be 3 months and i was happy to find out it got bumped up to 4, ive heard of the occasional person doing 6+ auditions but never assumed it was the norm

I know of people who applied aoa ortho and recieved more interviews than auditions done, i know its more common on the aoa side to require rotations for interviews but i believe its less than half of them

 

[Orangeyouglad]

So in most cases for competitive specialties like ortho, post merger, DOs need to beast both tests vs pre merger DOs could get away with beasting the comlex and doing only good on the usmle (235-240). Yikes

 

[UnoMas]

Dont most schools have a restriction on the amount of rotations you can do in a specific specialty? Or is it just my school? Ours used to be 3 months and i was happy to find out it got bumped up to 4, ive heard of the occasional person doing 6+ auditions but never assumed it was the norm

I know of people who applied aoa ortho and recieved more interviews than auditions done, i know its more common on the aoa side to require rotations for interviews but i believe its less than half of them

At my school, 4th year you get 3 electives, 1 study month for Level 2, 4th year vacation, 1 Surgical elective + 3rd year vacation. That's 7 rotations right there. 3rd year gets 2 extra electives, which the resourceful ortho guys can turn into some face-time with potential programs. I believe the limit is 4 but when it's ortho or something ultra-competitive and you got the grades to back up your request, the limit is lifted on a case to case basis.

This is obviously the extreme. Just talking about that many audition rotations make me shiver

 

[Preston Garvey]

Dont most schools have a restriction on the amount of rotations you can do in a specific specialty? Or is it just my school? Ours used to be 3 months and i was happy to find out it got bumped up to 4, ive heard of the occasional person doing 6+ auditions but never assumed it was the norm

I know of people who applied aoa ortho and recieved more interviews than auditions done, i know its more common on the aoa side to require rotations for interviews but i believe its less than half of them

Some people split months into 2 week auditions. All of my auditions were 2 weeks, but that may be more common in ENT than Ortho.

 

[Scrubs101]

Some people split months into 2 week auditions. All of my auditions were 2 weeks, but that may be more common in ENT than Ortho.

Are 2 week auditions more favorable/highly suggested in ENT?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Some people split months into 2 week auditions. All of my auditions were 2 weeks, but that may be more common in ENT than Ortho.

I think that might be more ENT specific as our program only lets people rotate for 2 weeks, although 2 week ortho auditions are possible. Probably very program dependent I’d imagine.

 

[Preston Garvey]

Are 2 week auditions more favorable/highly suggested in ENT?

Honestly if you are a good auditioner a month long audition would make you look more favorable in a programs eyes because the majority of rotators are coming through for 2 weeks. A month says you are seriously interested; however when you are trying to maximize the amount of interviews you get 2 week auditions are better.

 

[Preston Garvey]

I think that might be more ENT specific as our program only lets people rotate for 2 weeks, although 2 week ortho auditions are possible. Probably very program dependent I’d imagine.

Yeah I guess it would be best to ask previous ortho applicants if they did any 2 week rotations. 2 weeks is rough though because as soon as you get to know everyone its over haha.

 

[W19]

I was looking at the osteopathic students data who matched into it, and apparently the credentials were surprisingly much lower, to the point where people who didn't match had higher average board scores and more research than those who did.

Clearly these 3 DO who matched IR had some other things (i.e connections etc...) that get them the spot.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Clearly these 3 DO who matched IR had some other things (i.e connections etc...) that get them the spot.

Actually if you look the research numbers were pretty different too.

 

[ClinPathDO]

I apologize if this comes off rude or braggy, but I really haven’t gotten a solid answer to this question. Basically what the title says, how much does it carry in terms of residency competitiveness with the upcoming merger? I got a good solid usmle (238) and a very good comlex (679.)

To give you all some examples of what I’m asking, does my competitiveness jump enough to go from DR to IR? Gen surg to ortho? Gen surgery anywhere to gen surgery California? That kind of thing. Sorry if this still doesn’t make sense, I’m a little loopy.

You have a solid USMLE and COMLEX, spend third year figuring out what residency and then go for it. IR, Gen surg and Ortho are all different. For ortho and gen surg you will have to do DO auditions. Radiology you won’t.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

You have a solid USMLE and COMLEX, spend third year figuring out what residency and then go for it. IR, Gen surg and Ortho are all different. For ortho and gen surg you will have to do DO auditions. Radiology you won’t.

Thanks! I definitely wanna do a surgical specialty so most likely gen surgery or ortho but with this discussion I’ve learned the consensus seems like once the merger comes around, I won’t be competitive enough for ortho cuz usmle ain’t that high.

 

[ClinPathDO]

Thanks! I definitely wanna do a surgical specialty so most likely gen surgery or ortho but with this discussion I’ve learned the consensus seems like once the merger comes around, I won’t be competitive enough for ortho cuz usmle ain’t that high.

If you want ortho, know your anatomy and the handbook of fractures cold. Aim for osteopathic program such as Pinnacle, Doctors, Broward, etc.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

If you want ortho, know your anatomy and the handbook of fractures cold. Aim for osteopathic program such as Pinnacle, Doctors, Broward, etc.

Sorry to intrude but I have a question about matching ortho as a DO. My step1 is 248 and was wondering if I have a good chance at one of the osteopathic programs you mentioned. I currently have 4x poster presentations as first author and one published work in undergrad (not first author for that). what are my prospects realistically speaking? Anything more I can do to my app as a third year? Thank you so much for your time!

 

[electrolight]

Sorry to intrude but I have a question about matching ortho as a DO. My step1 is 248 and was wondering if I have a good chance at one of the osteopathic programs you mentioned. I currently have 4x poster presentations as first author and one published work in undergrad (not first author for that). what are my prospects realistically speaking? Anything more I can do to my app as a third year? Thank you so much for your time!

Comlex is more important to historically AOA ortho programs. I'm in the last year of the AOA match and can't even assign my USMLE to those programs. I can't imagine it will all of the sudden be more important. Your app will be fine if you do well on step 2 also.

From what I'm seeing on auditions is that the guys who memorized handbook of fractures already look like all stars. Memorize handbook in your down time. Practice x-rays. And know your anatomy. Show up ready to work.

 

[ClinPathDO]

Sorry to intrude but I have a question about matching ortho as a DO. My step1 is 248 and was wondering if I have a good chance at one of the osteopathic programs you mentioned. I currently have 4x poster presentations as first author and one published work in undergrad (not first author for that). what are my prospects realistically speaking? Anything more I can do to my app as a third year? Thank you so much for your time!

Yea know your anatomy, ortho knowledge and when you do your auditions work hard, don’t be late, and show you can handle being an intern on the floors and in the OR. You can submit comlex but programs will ask about USMLE.

 

[gergles]

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