How much weight does being related to faculty have for MD admission?

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ar707

ar707

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My friend keeps bragging about how he's set for Med School because his father is an assistant professor at the Yale School of Medicine. Is he spouting hot air, or does this have a tangible impact on matriculation chances?
 
That sounds like a horror story waiting to happen.
I think it was SDN where I read a story about I think a residency interview where someone failed epicly due to arrogance and the "my daddy" card.
 
ar707 said:
My friend keeps bragging about how he's set for Med School because his father is an assistant professor at the Yale School of Medicine. Is he spouting hot air, or does this have a tangible impact on matriculation chances?
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I'll go the other way from @Goro and @gonnif .

Having a physician parent drastically improves one's chances of getting into medical school. Being in academics even more.

#1 When it comes to education, parents matter, a lot. Physician parent means growing up at least reasonably well to do. It mean ample resources and more often than not a home culture of education being important. Those are incredibly important when it comes to laying the foundation for a medical school application. I certainly have seen children of physicians go the other way, but compared to the average child they have an advantage.

#2 Fair or unfair, connections matter at every level of schooling and employment. I was asked at my Hopkins interview, "so I see that your father went to HMS, what will it take to convince you to come here over there?" People notice your parent's education levels and some care more than others. In my n=1 experience this tends to be a bigger deal in the Northeast.

#3 Lastly, connections are great, but at the end of the day the ability to leverage those connections are what is important. The vast majority of people don't understand this concept and thus you get the, "polite interview, polite waitlist, polite rejection". But, on average? Will help more than it will hurt.
 
mimelim said:
I'll go the other way from @Goro and @gonnif .

Having a physician parent drastically improves one's chances of getting into medical school. Being in academics even more.

#1 When it comes to education, parents matter, a lot. Physician parent means growing up at least reasonably well to do. It mean ample resources and more often than not a home culture of education being important. Those are incredibly important when it comes to laying the foundation for a medical school application. I certainly have seen children of physicians go the other way, but compared to the average child they have an advantage.

#2 Fair or unfair, connections matter at every level of schooling and employment. I was asked at my Hopkins interview, "so I see that your father went to HMS, what will it take to convince you to come here over there?" People notice your parent's education levels and some care more than others. In my n=1 experience this tends to be a bigger deal in the Northeast.

#3 Lastly, connections are great, but at the end of the day the ability to leverage those connections are what is important. The vast majority of people don't understand this concept and thus you get the, "polite interview, polite waitlist, polite rejection". But, on average? Will help more than it will hurt.
Click to expand...

You could say that in general about children who grow up in upper middle class homes.

After all being a pre-med isn't cheap; What does a cycle cost? I have read reports of 5-10k..
That would take me a year to save probably two
MCAT prep is a grand from what I read?
I don't even have 1k in my bank.. I struggled to pay 700 dollars in extra tuition bills..

If your parents can foot those bills it puts less stress on your life.
If your parents can afford to tutor you or set you up for ECs from childhood it gives you an advantage going into a college.

Probably why the poorest school in my county has lower test grades and lower college going rates than the more wealthy schools.
 
Last year around traffic day, I was sitting in my mentor physicians office talking to him. Another physician, who was Vice Chair of X department, Chief of Department Y and a number of other positions at a Top 20 in the Northeast, comes in and says that his nephew is on the wait list and he read us off the email he was sending to the dean.

He was also a legacy of this medical school and did most of his training there. The letter said something along the lines of making it very clear that he was an alum, what he had gained from his time at University X, his contributions over the years as a faculty at Univ X, how he hoped his nephew could have a similar experience as him, and what his nephew would add to the school.

Nephew was accepted 2 days later.
 
Frogger27 said:
Last year around traffic day, I was sitting in my mentor physicians office talking to him. Another physician, who was Vice Chair of X department, Chief of Department Y and a number of other positions at a Top 20 in the Northeast, comes in and says that his nephew is on the wait list and he read us off the email he was sending to the dean.

He was also a legacy of this medical school and did most of his training there. The letter said something along the lines of making it very clear that he was an alum, what he had gained from his time at University X, his contributions over the years as a faculty at Univ X, how he hoped his nephew could have a similar experience as him, and what his nephew would add to the school.

Nephew was accepted 2 days later.
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That's nothing lol...
Where my parents are from you can bribe medical schools with money for an acceptance.(rich student do that, and many better and poorer students lose their acceptance)
 
Dr.Sticks said:
That's nothing lol...
Where my parents are from you can bribe medical schools with money for an acceptance.(rich student do that, and many better and poorer students lose their acceptance)
Click to expand...

My point of posting was the common sentiment on these forums that connections do not matter in medical school admissions. I personally know a couple examples of them playing a role.
 
mimelim said:
I'll go the other way from @Goro and @gonnif .

Having a physician parent drastically improves one's chances of getting into medical school. Being in academics even more.

#1 When it comes to education, parents matter, a lot. Physician parent means growing up at least reasonably well to do. It mean ample resources and more often than not a home culture of education being important. Those are incredibly important when it comes to laying the foundation for a medical school application. I certainly have seen children of physicians go the other way, but compared to the average child they have an advantage.

#2 Fair or unfair, connections matter at every level of schooling and employment. I was asked at my Hopkins interview, "so I see that your father went to HMS, what will it take to convince you to come here over there?" People notice your parent's education levels and some care more than others. In my n=1 experience this tends to be a bigger deal in the Northeast.

#3 Lastly, connections are great, but at the end of the day the ability to leverage those connections are what is important. The vast majority of people don't understand this concept and thus you get the, "polite interview, polite waitlist, polite rejection". But, on average? Will help more than it will hurt.
Click to expand...
Frogger27 said:
Last year around traffic day, I was sitting in my mentor physicians office talking to him. Another physician, who was Vice Chair of X department, Chief of Department Y and a number of other positions at a Top 20 in the Northeast, comes in and says that his nephew is on the wait list and he read us off the email he was sending to the dean.

He was also a legacy of this medical school and did most of his training there. The letter said something along the lines of making it very clear that he was an alum, what he had gained from his time at University X, his contributions over the years as a faculty at Univ X, how he hoped his nephew could have a similar experience as him, and what his nephew would add to the school.

Nephew was accepted 2 days later.
Click to expand...

yeah this is really not all that surprising. medical school admissions isn't immune to the power of connections, legacies and favoritism. and from what i read, they continue to play a role in residency, fellowship and job applications. applicants are usually wise enough to exploit these advantages to their fullest extent

the common notion promoted on these forums that medical school admissions is meritocratic is simply inaccurate and unrealistic.
 
Frogger27 said:
Last year around traffic day, I was sitting in my mentor physicians office talking to him. Another physician, who was Vice Chair of X department, Chief of Department Y and a number of other positions at a Top 20 in the Northeast, comes in and says that his nephew is on the wait list and he read us off the email he was sending to the dean.

He was also a legacy of this medical school and did most of his training there. The letter said something along the lines of making it very clear that he was an alum, what he had gained from his time at University X, his contributions over the years as a faculty at Univ X, how he hoped his nephew could have a similar experience as him, and what his nephew would add to the school.

Nephew was accepted 2 days later.
Click to expand...

If the guy was that important his nephew would not have been waitlisted in the first place. Places like you describe have no shortage of upper middle managers trying to leverage their relations into choice spots. While his actions may have helped his kin get shaken off the tree, it is difficult to reach a conclusive assessment without knowing the strength of the young man's application and where he sat on the list prior to the conversation you witnessed. He might have been second from the top. Or he might have been second from the bottom.

I have seen family ties help applicants by getting them noticed a bit beyond others in the pool. I have not seen a fundamentally unqualified person get leapfrogged through the process because of VIP DNA.
 
Med Ed said:
If the guy was that important his nephew would not have been waitlisted in the first place. Places like you describe have no shortage of upper middle managers trying to leverage their relations into choice spots. While his actions may have helped his kin get shaken off the tree, it is difficult to reach a conclusive assessment without knowing the strength of the young man's application and where he sat on the list prior to the conversation you witnessed. He might have been second from the top. Or he might have been second from the bottom.

I have seen family ties help applicants by getting them noticed a bit beyond others in the pool. I have not seen a fundamentally unqualified person get leapfrogged through the process because of VIP DNA.
Click to expand...

I am assuming the applicant was somewhat qualified since he was interviewing at a Top10 in the first place. Maybe it was a little reach, but I don't think they would interview a 3.5/27 regardless of connections. I am guessing it helped move him to the top of the wait list (although may have been there already).
 
Lawper said:
yeah this is really not all that surprising. medical school admissions isn't immune to the power of connections, legacies and favoritism. and from what i read, they continue to play a role in residency, fellowship and job applications. applicants are usually wise enough to exploit these advantages to their fullest extent

the common notion promoted on these forums that medical school admissions is meritocratic is simply inaccurate and unrealistic.
Click to expand...
Compared to other parts of the world it isn't. The U.S has a fair and generally corruption free system where one gets in based on merit in almost all cases.

So let me ask you this;
There is a wealthy alumni who donates tens of millions to the school. Then his son applies to that school but is average compared to other applicants.
What do you think will happen?
Will the school accept because they don't want to lose the money? Will they deny due to lack of qualifications despite connections?
 
I have interviewed faculty members' kids who were in the 3.5/27 range at a school that more often runs in the 3.7/37 range. Most of the time it is a polite interview followed by eternal waitlist for obvious reasons. I've also seen applications from kids in the 3.7/37 range and they tend to be interviewed, admitted, and choose to go elsewhere. hahaha

I have seen a few situations where an applicant somewhat below average but with a compelling story or an unusual life experience that is not common in medicine be admitted and do well. In some cases, these individuals have a family member on the faculty.
 
gonnif said:
This was not unusual at American medical schools well into the 1970s and perhaps 1980s. Often the rich Grandfather (it always seem to be the would donate money for a new wing, department, etc of the Hospital and their grandson would be admitted . It is one of the reasons that in the late 1980s and 1990s the AAMC put guidelines and rules in place that tried
Click to expand...
gonnif said:
Interestingly enough, this scenario is thought to have led to the founding of the first Caribbean medical school. One of the founders was a well-off but newly rich investment banker who son couldnt get into medical school in US. The story goes, he tried to donate to some of the New York schools but since he wasnt "old money" and part of the accepted upper crust in the city, but they snubbed him. The new and aggressive Wall street types with mergers and leveraged buy-outs were disliked by the old money; just a few years later junk bonds and Michael Milken would show just how bad they were. So he instead worked with partners and was co-founders of St. Georges. Apparently, it was a worthwhile investment as SGU as recently as 2013 was exploring a sale in excess of one billion (that's billion with a "b") but settled on a $750 million dollar investment from 2 private equity firms in 2014.
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Wow; A billion dollar diploma mill
That is a crazy good investment lol
A bit shady though
 
gonnif said:
3) My favorite: Had to be early 1990s. A large donor and active fund raiser/hospital trustee who knows all the deans for a long time asks one of them at some function for a favor. Dean knows this is a real good guy, not some stuck up donor. The donor asks could they please interview his sister's kid or whoever for medical school admission. Dean knows this is a real big wig so he treads lightly. Asks if the kid is a good candidate. Donor says, Hell No; I wouldnt trust this kid to walk my dog. I didnt say admit him, just interview him so I can get my sister off my back
Click to expand...

🤣
 
gonnif said:
Just some stories I have had heard from reliable faculty/adcoms here from some of the schools here. Lets just say alot of money and power flies around this city. But it works both ways.

1) circa mid1970s (acceptance ratio then was 3.5 to 1) . Wealthy donor "visits" Dean to ask about his grandson chances for acceptance. Dean says they are reasonable. Donor writes 7 figure check. Dean looks at it and congratulates donor on his grandson's acceptance.

2) circa late 1990's (after AMCAS has centralized the application service) Large donor has been really pushing several deans/president about his I believe grand nephew. After several pestering phone calls, the dean calls in the donor to a meeting. At the meeting is the General Counsel (corporate lawyer) who tries to present the legal and ethical issues in doing , donor is combative. Apparently they were expecting that. The GC produces a letter signed and ready to send to AAMC/AMCAS stating that be using undue influence on his application and should be considered suspect (I forget what legal BS). GC says he is sending this and it will make the applicant persona non grata at any US medical school. Then threatens that this donor will never get his name on a wing but Family X will instead. Donor backs down.

3) My favorite: Had to be early 1990s. A large donor and active fund raiser/hospital trustee who knows all the deans for a long time asks one of them at some function for a favor. Dean knows this is a real good guy, not some stuck up donor. The donor asks could they please interview his sister's kid or whoever for medical school admission. Dean knows this is a real big wig so he treads lightly. Asks if the kid is a good candidate. Donor says, Hell No; I wouldnt trust this kid to walk my dog. I didnt say admit him, just interview him so I can get my sister off my back
Click to expand...
Man I could sit here all day reading your stories
So funny and interesting lol
 
Lucca said:
U will never lose money betting on the stupidity of other people
Click to expand...
I am too nice to take advantage of people like that. It would also make me feel like a bad person.
 
Dr.Sticks said:
I am too nice to take advantage of people like that. It would also make me feel like a bad person.
Click to expand...

Well it's a good thing you're a premed major and not a business major then!
 
JustAPhD said:
Well it's a good thing you're a premed major and not a business major then!
Click to expand...
I would be a terrible business manor because I have serious qualms about corporate society.
I would much rather we live in a country where bartering was the norm and currency as we know it did not exist.
You know how it was in the early and mid 19th century..
If someone didn't have money they could usually pay with goods or services.

Hell if I was a doc and someone couldn't pay me I would be okay with bartering for compensation. (Vension for a checkup sounds like a good deal)
The only thing is that might be illegal in some shape or form....
 
Frogger27 said:
Last year around traffic day, I was sitting in my mentor physicians office talking to him. Another physician, who was Vice Chair of X department, Chief of Department Y and a number of other positions at a Top 20 in the Northeast, comes in and says that his nephew is on the wait list and he read us off the email he was sending to the dean.

He was also a legacy of this medical school and did most of his training there. The letter said something along the lines of making it very clear that he was an alum, what he had gained from his time at University X, his contributions over the years as a faculty at Univ X, how he hoped his nephew could have a similar experience as him, and what his nephew would add to the school.

Nephew was accepted 2 days later.
Click to expand...
How disgusting! Such injustice!

.............................

Can you elaborate? What dean? Admission? Or the whole school? Asking for a friend.
 
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