How often are you publishing?

[Ollie123]

Title pretty much says it all.

I'm curious how frequently those of you currently in graduate school are able to get your name on publications. Mostly interested in hearing from those of you planning on academic careers (for obvious reasons), but all are certainly welcome.

I realize it will vary quite a bit from school to school and advisor to advisor, but I'm just curious what everyone else's experiences have been. I feel behind the curve a bit since I've just had lousy luck publishing so far (always end up leaving the labs right as the writing begins so my name doesn't end up on anything despite being heavily involved in everything else up to that point). So I feel like I already need to do some catching up to do if I'm ever going to have a chance at a teaching job. I know some students who only got their name on 1 publication their whole time as a student, I also know of one lab where students are expected to get their name on at least 3 for every year they work there(and most are able to do this or at least come close). Though the 3/year is obviously on a bit of a delay given the time frame for getting pubs out these days.

I'm hoping to be closer to the 3/year category but I don't want to be overly optimistic either.

Do you have much time to do writing on the side as a grad student or do you have chances to try and turn papers from classes into pubs? Do you collaborate on pubs with people who aren't your primary advisor (as a statistician, or just them letting you play around with their data, etc.).

In case you can't tell, immediately diving into the writing side of things is one of my main goals going into graduate school, since its definitely the weak point on my CV right now (aside from clinical experience). Just trying to get some perspective on what is/is not a reasonable goal and I figure others here might be able to give me some insight.

Thanks!

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[psychanon]

First off, you are NOT NOT NOT behind the curve. This is a big misperception that people have-- that you are expected to have publications when starting grad school. In fact, it is very rare, and if you do have one, you are ahead of the curve, but if you don't, you are NOT behind. So don't feel bad.

I'm just finishing up my third year of grad school, and I have nothing in print so far. I'm not worried, because I have 5 things under review (2 first author), and two additional first author papers in prep that I hope will be submitted by the end of the summer. I'm hoping to have a couple additional first author papers from my dissertation data, but who knows if those will be published by the time I'm on the job market.It takes a long time to get stuff published. My advisor says I'm well on track to be competitive for academic jobs. I'm not concerned.

I believe that there are some labs where students produce 3/ year, but these are usually labs where everybody's name goes on every lab publication. This is usually pretty obvious and it looks bad-- it dilutes the contribution of all of the authors. Besides, being a 5th author on something isn't going to get you a job-- it's really the first author papers that matter, and it would be unreasonable to expect yourself to have 3 of those per year every year of grad school (but if you did, you'd have no trouble getting a job!).

Another thing to consider is the quality of the journal. A Journal of Abnormal paper is going to count as much as three lower quality journal papers. Of course, to some extent you can't control the journal quality-- it has a lot to do with the quality of the data, which may depend on your lab.

During my first year, I was mostly busy with coursework and data collection, and didn't have too much time to write papers. Now that I'm more advanced and done with coursework (and now that I have more clearly formulated research ideas), I am writing much more, and will continue to do so for the rest of grad school. It also depends on where your lab is on data collection. Some studies take a long time to collect data. I didn't have data available to start publishing until the end of my second year.

As for collaborating with other labs, I am doing so a bit for my dissertation. It is only worthwhile if there are other faculty with research interests that overlap with yours-- but if you can do it, it will be a good opportunity to diversify your experiences.

Overall, if you expect 3/ year out of yourself, you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment. It would be more reasonable to expect fewer your first and second years and more later years.

 

[Ollie123]

That's very true about journal quality, I had neglected to ask that, but I'd also like to know what kind of journals people are getting papers in.

Its good to hear I'm not behind the curve, but my concern actually does have a quantitative base....if you flip through the disclosed info on entering students, it seems most of the top programs have ~50% of students (or more) who have published. Admittedly, most are probably not first authors, but still....

I also should have mentioned that ~3/year is average, not exact. I obviously expect to publish less when I first started compared to my last year there (and I think that is the case in the aforementioned lab as well), though any opportunities I have to get involved would be great!

If I collaborate, I'd want it to be at least semi-relevant to my work, but my interests are quite varied so I'm wondering if it might be possible to say, have a hand in another lab and do a side-project there just to broaden my horizons. Or would that make me seem unfocused?

Anyways, thanks greatly for your input. Its good to hear I'm not as behind as I thought I was. I LOVE reading journals and enjoy scientific writing, and it is such an important part of getting a job/tenure so i want to make sure I'm setting myself up as well as I can from the very start.

 

[LM02]

To put things in perspective, I work in a Department of Psychiatry at a rather presitigious medical school. Although the expectation for medical school faculty is somewhat lower than that for faculty in traditional psychology departments, the expectation for faculty here is that they publish 4 papers per year. Of course, many publish much more than that - but 4 per year is considered sufficient for purposes of promotion.

So I would agree that the 3 per year expectation as a grad student is pretty unrealistic, although perhaps not beyond the realm of possibiity. When I was applying for internship, I had the director of a very competitive internship site tell me that he likes to see 6 publications per applicant. I think that is much more realistic and attainable.

Also, like psychanon said - there is something to be said for where the papers are getting published. Although a large part of it has to do with the strength of your methodology and data, another part is sheer perseverance of the investigator. It is not uncommon for an Abnormal paper to go through 3 rounds of review prior to being accepted for publication - so it will, by definition, take you longer to get papers published in some of the bigger journals. Thus, time you could spend on 2 papers might become time spent on only one. But if you got an Abnormal paper out of it, it would probably be worth it.

Good luck!

 

[psychanon]

Its good to hear I'm not behind the curve, but my concern actually does have a quantitative base....if you flip through the disclosed info on entering students, it seems most of the top programs have ~50% of students (or more) who have published. Admittedly, most are probably not first authors, but still....

I wouldn't read too much into it. A couple people in my class (in a very research oriented top 15 program) had a pub or two coming into grad school, but most were like, 5th author. Who knows how accurate those stats are, anyway. If you really want to know how important it is, look at faculty vitae and see how many of them published before they started grad school.

If I collaborate, I'd want it to be at least semi-relevant to my work, but my interests are quite varied so I'm wondering if it might be possible to say, have a hand in another lab and do a side-project there just to broaden my horizons. Or would that make me seem unfocused?

Well...the problem is that you'd have to really learn the literature in that area, and that'd take a long time. Your research interests may be varied now, but I suspect that they won't be throughout grad school. As they say, as you go through academia you learn more and more about less and less, until you know everything about nothing.

I LOVE reading journals and enjoy scientific writing, and it is such an important part of getting a job/tenure so i want to make sure I'm setting myself up as well as I can from the very start.

Carry that enthusiasm and tenacity with you to grad school and you'll be fine.

When I was applying for internship, I had the director of a very competitive internship site tell me that he likes to see 6 publications per applicant. I think that is much more realistic and attainable.

Out of curiosity-- is that 6 first author or just six altogether? Does that include any kind of publication (e.g., book chapters) or just peer reviewed? I'd really like to get that kind of research oriented internship.

 

[Ollie123]

As they say, as you go through academia you learn more and more about less and less, until you know everything about nothing.

This is quite possibly my favorite quotation I have ever read on this board, and it is soooooooo true (even as an undergrad I picked up on that!).

thanks for the input psychanon (and LM02). Its been very helpful. Would still love to hear from others though!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

More is traditionally better....but if you can get into a top flight journal as first or second author, I'd take that ahead of 2 or 3 in obscure or lesser respected journals, especially if there are 4-5 people listed.

-t