How quickly can you get a publication in

[Weirdo]

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I have virtually no research experience. Do u guys know if a summer of research will allow me to publish a paper or do i have to spend a year doing research.

 

[tigershark]

One summer is not enough time...you might be able to get an abstract if you're lucky, but no way will you get a manuscript.

Many people will do the experiments during the summer then write up the manuscript in their free time during the school year.

If you are a third year forget about it.

 

[KatieJune]

I have virtually no research experience. Do u guys know if a summer of research will allow me to publish a paper or do i have to spend a year doing research.

That depends. If you are really lucky, someone might put your name on a paper after working hard for a summer....it took me a year of full time research to be listed as an author and 2 full years to be the first author on a paper....

 

[Mumpu]

Depends. I got a paper published in a very respectable journal out of 2 months of research. You have to pick the right project (e.g. clinical study rather than mouse-blending benchwork) and have a fair amount of luck. It still takes 9-10 months for a paper to actually get published.

 

[doc05]

you can get published after one summer of research, but it requires lots of luck. and then it will take 1 or 2 years to actually see the publication once it's accepted.

 

[LSUwannabe]

you can get published after one summer of research, but it requires lots of luck. and then it will take 1 or 2 years to actually see the publication once it's accepted.

This is the response with which I'd agree...

You really have to be fortunate enough to come in on a project with a decent PI and good "publishability." Some topics are hot (biodefense) and others are not...

You might get in a lab where they've been informed on precisely what steps must be made for a publication. You come in, play a large role in helping meet those requirements, and you're an author.

Some people work for MUCH longer to get pubs...

Success in publication is not really always reflective of effort/motivation IMO, there are just way too many variables...

Furthermore, if you have little/no experience the odds of you coming in and doing substantive work toward a project justifying authorship in one summer seem low IMO. Good luck.

 

[Weirdo]

Depends. I got a paper published in a very respectable journal out of 2 months of research. You have to pick the right project (e.g. clinical study rather than mouse-blending benchwork) and have a fair amount of luck. It still takes 9-10 months for a paper to actually get published.

what do u mean by "clinical study rather than mouse-blending benchwork"

 

[Brain]

I have virtually no research experience. Do u guys know if a summer of research will allow me to publish a paper or do i have to spend a year doing research.

If you're doing statistical based research on a dataset that has already been collected and cleaned, then yes. If you're doing lab based research, then usually not unless you are really really lucky. However, I think most of your time will be spent learning how to do things so I doubt it.

 

[Law2Doc]

what do u mean by "clinical study rather than mouse-blending benchwork"

I believe the poster meant a study on patients or medical record/chart data (usually in a hospital setting) rather than lab research test tube mixing, DNA analysis and the like (usually in an academic or pharmacutical industry setting). I would tend to agree -- the quickest publication I was involved with was of the former kind and the study got completed and written up in around 5 months. But even clinical studies usually take more time than this -- you would have to be real lucky and latch onto the tail end of something in a big way to get published within only a summer's work.

 

[Weirdo]

I believe the poster meant a study on patients or medical record/chart data (usually in a hospital setting) rather than lab research test tube mixing, DNA analysis and the like (usually in an academic or pharmacutical industry setting). I would tend to agree -- the quickest publication I was involved with was of the former kind and the study got completed and written up in around 5 months. But even clinical studies usually take more time than this -- you would have to be real lucky and latch onto the tail end of something in a big way to get published within only a summer's work.

so what route do medical students usually take to get a publication. Take a year off for research?

 

[nicedoc]

most of my friends take a year off for research.

 

[tigershark]

so what route do medical students usually take to get a publication. Take a year off for research?

Get attached to a lab early and stick with it, over time you will get your name on papers.

I started working in a lab the summer before med school started (I needed money) and continued working in the same lab through med school (electives, work-study, free time). Now I have a CV that I really have no business having as a 3rd year medical student (20+ pubs with book chapters etc.) mainly because I was in the right place at the right time. Don't take a year off it is not necessary.

 

[alhkim]

you can get a paper (not first author) from a "mouse-blending benchwork" if you have had some research experience before (i.e. tissue culture work, basic pipetting, etc) AND (it's a big and) the animal model you are working with is well-established (i.e. reagents to test the hypothesis has been shown to work consistently in that lab, there are people around you to help with the techniques needed to get results (whether it be western blot, flow cytometry, fluorescent microscopy or whatever), short turnaround between delivery of therapy to animal to harvesting whatever organs are needed for analysis). That's quite a few prerequisites.

Having said this, clinical work will be much easier to get your name somwhere on the paper since that just requires a computer and an understanding of how the investigator wants the data to by analyzed.

 

[Mumpu]

Having done both bench and clinical, bench is a lot more time consuming and a far bigger crapshoot. You can go for years, blend enough mice to fill Lake Michigan three times over, and still get nothing. A smartly designed clinical study is an almost guaranteed publication. If you do a retrospective chart review-type study, you can do all the data collection, analysis, and writing yourself and get first author in a reputable journal.

I did my research between first and second years of med school on a short-term NIH grant.

 

[Drdrums]

I have a relevant follow up question. Just finished undergrad, and have been working in the same immunology lab since sophomore year. I just found out that I will be one of two authors (not the lead) on the upcoming paper resulting from my work this year. I am waitlisted at my top choice, and I obviously want to inform them of this. The manuscript is currently in preparation, and will likely be sent out in the next month. Do I have to wait until it it sent out, or accepted for publication to inform my top choice med school, or can I send a citation (authors, title) and abstract asap? I know the process takes a few months from this point, but I know some med schools regard research experience very highly, and I would like to inform them to enhance my application. Thanks!

 

[doc05]

I have a relevant follow up question. Just finished undergrad, and have been working in the same immunology lab since sophomore year. I just found out that I will be one of two authors (not the lead) on the upcoming paper resulting from my work this year. I am waitlisted at my top choice, and I obviously want to inform them of this. The manuscript is currently in preparation, and will likely be sent out in the next month. Do I have to wait until it it sent out, or accepted for publication to inform my top choice med school, or can I send a citation (authors, title) and abstract asap? I know the process takes a few months from this point, but I know some med schools regard research experience very highly, and I would like to inform them to enhance my application. Thanks!

A pending publication probably won't sway their opinion. I would nonetheless mention it in the context of a letter of interest/intent.

 

[Mumpu]

Once you are notified your paper has been accepted for publication.

 

[docbill]

Get PI to write you an update reference letter.
Include that in the letter.

so and so.. is presently in the final stages of preparing a manuscript to be submitted into... J... Add Title here:....

 

[Haybrant]

yah luck is part of it, but you can be wise about it and find high-throughput labs; they do exist!

 

[xCD420]

hello all. i will be entering med school this fall, and was wondering if research during med school in the field you are interested is basically "required" to get a residency match in that field...

 

[nicedoc]

Having done both bench and clinical, bench is a lot more time consuming and a far bigger crapshoot. You can go for years, blend enough mice to fill Lake Michigan three times over, and still get nothing. A smartly designed clinical study is an almost guaranteed publication. If you do a retrospective chart review-type study, you can do all the data collection, analysis, and writing yourself and get first author in a reputable journal.

I did my research between first and second years of med school on a short-term NIH grant.

can you direct me to the website where i can apply for such a program?

 

[alhkim]

the short answer is no...it may help, but scores and grades are much more important.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202029

hello all. i will be entering med school this fall, and was wondering if research during med school in the field you are interested is basically "required" to get a residency match in that field...

 

[tigershark]

hello all. i will be entering med school this fall, and was wondering if research during med school in the field you are interested is basically "required" to get a residency match in that field...

It's not required but it will make your life much easier when applying, it will open doors that would otherwise be closed.

Having meaningful research with publications is much more valuable than being AOA, PD's in several fields have told me this. Real research (not a case report or a 1 month elective) will put you head and shoulders above other applicants. The highly competitive research oriented programs want residents that are likely to be academically productive and theres no better way to show that than through publications.

 

[KatieJune]

It's not required but it will make your life much easier when applying, it will open doors that would otherwise be closed.

Having meaningful research with publications is much more valuable than being AOA, PD's in several fields have told me this. Real research (not a case report or a 1 month elective) will put you head and shoulders above other applicants. The highly competitive research oriented programs want residents that are likely to be academically productive and theres no better way to show that than through publications.

Are publications before med school looked on as highly as those done during med school?

 

[Mumpu]

Nicedoc, my school administers the grants. I've no idea where to find them -- ask your student affairs office maybe?

 

[alhkim]

I have to strongly disagree with this statement...well, my perspective is from the IM point of view, but within IM, your medicine MSIII grade, sub-I grade, and board scores are much, much more important than papers. Take a student who has two first author papers, but no honors in any courses and has a 215 step I score. Then look at someone who is AOA with majority honors with a 240 step I score, but no research experience. Residency is for clinical training with the ability to comb through the literature, not to refine research skills, and I would bet that >90% of IM PDs will take candidate #2 over #1. Now, if they both get into the same residency, and both are applying for a fellowship, candidate #1 now has the advantage. But that's assuming that they get into the same residency...I don't see that happening.

I am not saying research is not worth it. I am a recent MD/PhD graduate (as of last Friday 😀 ), and for me, where academic medicine is my primary career goal, the research did help me. But I don't see this type of person in medicine a whole lot anymore...you have to be committed to be an academic physician (i.e. research > clinical duties) in order for your research to significantly help you out.

Get your grades and board scores in order, then think about publications. It's like the premed with a B average with a crapload of extracurriculars...my first notion is that this student has their priorities screwed up.

It's not required but it will make your life much easier when applying, it will open doors that would otherwise be closed.

Having meaningful research with publications is much more valuable than being AOA, PD's in several fields have told me this. Real research (not a case report or a 1 month elective) will put you head and shoulders above other applicants. The highly competitive research oriented programs want residents that are likely to be academically productive and theres no better way to show that than through publications.

 

[tigershark]

I have to strongly disagree with this statement...well, my perspective is from the IM point of view, but within IM, your medicine MSIII grade, sub-I grade, and board scores are much, much more important than papers. Take a student who has two first author papers, but no honors in any courses and has a 215 step I score. Then look at someone who is AOA with majority honors with a 240 step I score, but no research experience. Residency is for clinical training with the ability to comb through the literature, not to refine research skills, and I would bet that >90% of IM PDs will take candidate #2 over #1. Now, if they both get into the same residency, and both are applying for a fellowship, candidate #1 now has the advantage. But that's assuming that they get into the same residency...I don't see that happening.

I am not saying research is not worth it. I am a recent MD/PhD graduate (as of last Friday 😀 ), and for me, where academic medicine is my primary career goal, the research did help me. But I don't see this type of person in medicine a whole lot anymore...you have to be committed to be an academic physician (i.e. research > clinical duties) in order for your research to significantly help you out.

Get your grades and board scores in order, then think about publications. It's like the premed with a B average with a crapload of extracurriculars...my first notion is that this student has their priorities screwed up.

Candidate #1 would get a better residency than his board scores and grades would usually get someone.

As for candidate #2, applicants with 240+ step 1 and good grades are a dime a dozen in the competitive specialties. Having pubs gives you a distinct advantage over your peers that all have stellar boards and grades. #2 is not really concerned with the #1's, rather he is trying to set himself apart from the other #2's.

Research is definitely not required by any means, but the power of publications should not be underestimated.

 

[nicedoc]

Nicedoc, my school administers the grants. I've no idea where to find them -- ask your student affairs office maybe?

which lab and what type of research did u end up working for.

 

[alhkim]

True candidate #1 would match higher than his/her scores and grades would indicate, but first of all, dime a dozen for >240 score with good grades, even in competitive specialties? Sure, there are some smart ones out there, but they are not as common as to say dime a dozen. Second, with all other things equal, candidate #1 would still have a hard time matching at the Brigham, or Hopkins, or UCSF for whatever residency versus candidate #2. Now, if we combined candidate #1's research with #2 grades....we now have the perfect med student.

We agree with though with the bottom line...research cannot hurt you at all. But how much it helps you is a bit overrated i think.

Candidate #1 would get a better residency than his board scores and grades would usually get someone.

As for candidate #2, applicants with 240+ step 1 and good grades are a dime a dozen in the competitive specialties. Having pubs gives you a distinct advantage over your peers that all have stellar boards and grades. #2 is not really concerned with the #1's, rather he is trying to set himself apart from the other #2's.

Research is definitely not required by any means, but the power of publications should not be underestimated.

 

[tigershark]

We agree with though with the bottom line...research cannot hurt you at all. But how much it helps you is a bit overrated i think.

I've been told by several PD's in several fields that research is a huge asset when applying to residencies. I've been told several times that it would be far better to have a high step 1, decent grades, and lots of research compared to high step 1, AOA, and no research. It's really the only way to set yourself apart from the crowd and identify yourself as an academic.

As for there not being that many 240's, there were 34 in my class of 200 and we really arent all that great of a school.

 

[Mumpu]

I did a retrospective case-control clinical study with a pediatric cardiologist. No lab for me.