How realistic is this?

[mcataz]

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i am a Family Physician (yes, the "lowly family doc") out of residency for 1 1/2 years. i work 4 days a week (not the 50+ hours), i make 155k plus production. i do NOT live in the hospital, (i take call 1x/week - the NP takes first call, i only handle calls she can't, which is almost never).

 

[painres]

I know family Docs that make that much during residency, whats not realistic about those numbers? Just because they are family medicine doesnt mean they cant make any money.

 

[R U SED 8]

Originally posted by painres
I know family Docs that make that much during residency, whats not realistic about those numbers? Just because they are family medicine doesnt mean they cant make any money.

painres,

straight up.....what resident ANYWHERE is making 155k????? perhaps if you're smuggling fentanyl and selling it on the street....???? 😱

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by painres
I know family Docs that make that much during residency

please, give me a name...one single name...just one...

 

[painres]

Family practice residents in rural arkansas have plenty of moonlighting opportunities. And no I wont give you any names because its none of your business, and no I dont give **** if you believe me.

 

[R U SED 8]

painres,

now why d'ya gotta be like that.....? i'm not dissin you or anything but i looked into your post and did a little research on frieda online. (yes...im bored with nothing better to do tonight)

but anyway, there are 8 arkansas fp residencies ALL of which start PGY-1s at 37k/year. do you mean to say that residents are making 4-5x their base salary by moonlighting????? if so, what kinda hours are we talking?? you might have potentially opened up new doors for lots of people.....

goodbye derm, rads, & optho......HELLLLOOOOOOO FP!!! 😀

 

[painres]

The few residents I know who make that much extra money mostly do it in regional ERs where they are the only physician on duty at the time, and it can be quite stressfull. Sometimes they share the shifts with another resident. These shifts can be 48hrs long, with little sleep. But at 70-100$ an hour can add up pretty fast. Basically the ERs in these rural areas get desperate for coverage, and pay quite well for it. There are more moonlighting oportunities in FM during residency than pretty much any other specialty, as far as Im aware of. There is even a program in Ten. that allows people to moonlight halfway through their first year. Its some sort of evening clinic you sign up for from 5-9pm and you get paid well for. Granted the residents that make this kind of money work hard for it. There is money in FM, you just have to know where to look for it. I have a friend thats part of a FM practice who gets paid a large percentage of what he bills(after taxes and overhead) and he billed WELL over 700K last year. Family practice is filled with oportunity, especially in the smaller rural areas. You will never make this kind of money in Dallas, Houston, Chicago, at least not that Im aware of. Many refuse to go into it for fear of the stigma of FP. But it actually has a pretty good lifestyle, especially during residency.Hope this helps. Sorry if im a bit touchy, but Im kinda stressed. Later.

 

[womansurg]

I was running the math in my head a bit. Feel free to check me here, I don't have a calculator.

So, I haven't heard of anyone making $100/h moonlighting. Here in Iowa we have lots and lots of rural EDs looking for coverage, and usually the going rate is about $60/h. But let's just say that $80 is reasonably attainable, for the sake of argument.

For someone to make 155k during residency, they'd have to make about 120k over their base salary.

120k at $80 would be 1500 hours. Assuming 50 weeks worked per year, that would be an extra 30 hours per week worked on top of your normal residency hours. I guess that might be achievable in some programs, but not the ones I'm familiar with.

I know folks can moonlight and do well during residency, and I know that FPs can make very nice incomes, but I'd just never heard of any resident pulling down this kind of money during their training. Usually you might pick up a shift on a weekend every month or two, but not enough to quintuple your salary.

 

[Jim Picotte]

Radiology residents can pull down this kind of cash in their final 2 years but even then it would be a lot more work over the normal residency hours. Typically you'd have to use a week or two of your vacation and do full time work during that time. Typical pay is between $2000-3000 for a day shift and more if you take night call. It is very possible but I'd like to have an occassional weekend free rather than working all the time.

 

[droliver]

I'll respectfully agree. That's an awful lot of moonlighting to add up to those #'s, & I'm just not sure that's realistic in the context of simultaneously being in a training program. In addition, the issue of moonlighting is recieving extensive examination in context to the new work rules as far as liability is concerned for the training program. With a hard number now on the books (80 hrs/week), for work hours,any bad outcomes that arise where the amount of work you're doing (whether as part of your training OR from outside moonlighting) is called into question, is going to be a big exposure for programs. I suspect that you will see more programs with formal prohibition of the practice altogether outside the institution.

 

[Magree]

I'm confused... The original post said physician 1 1/2 years out of residency - presumably a board certified FP can certainly make 155K... especially in a rural location where they might do a lot of procedures.


M-

 

[Jim Picotte]

It's the second post along with the other post by painres that everyone is talking about. We sort of ignored the first post which is stating that FP can make good income and have a good life which I certainly agree with.

 

[Imhotep]

Since I am in family medicine residency, please allow me to expound.....as far as the extra income during training is concerned, of course this varies. For example, one of the senior residents at our program pulled in close to 130k last year. This guy is in his 40's, and has three teenage kids, so, has to work hard to support his family. He regularly moonlights at a nearby rural ER at 100 bucks an hour. Also, during weekdays, he works at the after hours urgent care clinic at 75 bucks an hour.
This is of course , a bit extreme....however, most of the other senior residents are pulling in close to 80-90k without too much stress. One must remember that most FP programs have relatively relaxed call schedules during 2nd and 3rd year. Our 2nd and 3rd years take inhouse call approximately 3 times a month.
Like the OP mentioned, there is no limit to the financial renumeration in this field, depending upon one's drive and interest.
Many a times, employers will give you a generous loan repayment package after residency, especially in smaller/midsize towns. Many of the recent graduates got upto 100k in repayment, averaged over 4 years.
hth

 

[margaritaboy]

Let's get back to the original post for a second.

Would the original poster please give me a little bit more info as far as their practice location (urban v rural), size, # of hours per week worked. Also, I'm curious about the NP taking first calls? How does that work during other parterns' call nights?

You are inspiring me to become a family doc. I'm wondering if this is really a doable practice structure for everyone, or if your circumstances are somehow special?

Thanks!

 

[secretwave101]

NOBODY GO INTO FAMILY MEDICINE. It sucks. Get out. Shoo.

Everyone looks down on you. All the cool stuff gets done by specialists. All you do is tell the parents of snotty kids that you can't do anything for viruses - but they talk you into giving antibiotics anyway - and you live your days in guilt knowing you have contributed to microbial resistance and the ultimate demise of the human organism.

ALL the MONEY stories are LIES - I have good evidence they were mostly started by Sadaam Hussein and Taraq Aziz...its clear they are still at work and all this talk of "Iraqi Freedom" is just a hoax.

Plus, you're just mean, selfish and..EVIL if you have ever considered money and medicine in the same thought. You're only allowed into this vaunted profession if you have "altruist" certification at the State Department (a highly classified list only I know about). Even the slightest consideration of money in your decision-making about a specialty will land you - quite possibly - in yes, an unnamed Iraqi prison.

I'm a USFMG who probably shouldn't be in med school in the first place, but got into this specifically BECAUSE I was inspired by an FP friend of mine. I've always wanted to go into the specialty, but was counting on the damn thing staying non-competitive (I'm pulling for a 186.1 on the USMLE I this summer). All these tales of fame and lifestyle will ruin my well-crafted plan.

Who wants to be in a specialty where a heady moment of trauma amounts to casting and band-aids?

Stay away. Stay in the cool specialties. Don't ruin your smart reputation. Don't be a dim-witted gatekeeper. Leave that to me.

 

[OwlMyste]

they said they were out of Residency for 1? years...🙂

Originally posted by R U SED 8
.what resident ANYWHERE is making 155k?????

 

[wack]

dr. Oliver and Womansurg,

I am big fans of your posts. Here is my insane question which is bound to result in hardy laughter and is totally off topic. Can or do general Surgery residents moonlight? If so what do they do? I know it seems odd but my primary care provider was actually a general surgeon (I am from a rural area and he is a friend of the family). Granted I have never had any serious or chronic conditions so he didn't have to do much, just stitch me up occasionally when I fell off a bike or tractor. Surgical residencies are extremely demanding but does anyone ever find time, or are they even qualified to spend some time in a small time ER or urgent treatment center? Obviously moonlighting opportunities will not be a significant factor in my career choice but with the debt I have coming on I think it would be nice to have the option. Currently I am heading to med school this fall with dellusions of general surgery (maybe a trauma fellowship) grandeur. (All of this will probably go by the wayside when I see how much these guys work or if I find out I can't cut or sew.) It looks like wack might be $160k in debt at the end of med school. Another words someone is getting ready to bust a cap in my financial A$$. Moonlighting would be cool if possible.

 

[tussy]

Originally posted by wack
Here is my insane question which is bound to result in hardy laughter and is totally off topic. Can or do general Surgery residents moonlight? If so what do they do?

Residents in my program often moonlight doing call in the ICUs of community hospitals. Unfortunately it doesn't pay that well, and it's often very busy. I did one shift and decided the money wasn't worth it. With life as busy as ours you have to treasure every free hour!

 

[droliver]

It's pretty tough to moonlight where I train. I'm extremely busy with my clinical duties and I have a wife and 2 children I enjoy spending my free time with. There are some urgent care facilities in town that some people have staffed in the past ($25-30/hr) and a number of people have done things like disability physicals @ ($20-25/per). There is no in-house moonlighting oppurtunities here, unlike some places (these WILL now be counted towards the 80 hr work week). If you want to work in an ER you have to go ~ 45 mins+ outside of town for ~$70-85/hr, this is becoming true even for the ER residents here. A handful of people do this some, but I like my family & free time too much & I don't need the money.

With the work rules issues coming in July I really expect there's going to be formal rules prohibiting this @ most places eventually for many specialties

 

[njbmd]

Originally posted by tussy
Residents in my program often moonlight doing call in the ICUs of community hospitals. Unfortunately it doesn't pay that well, and it's often very busy. I did one shift and decided the money wasn't worth it. With life as busy as ours you have to treasure every free hour!

Hi there,
Clinical residents in my surgery residency program are not allowed to moonlight. There are many programs with the new shift to 80-hours that will be instituting the same regs. The anesthesia residency program does have moonlighting opportunities within their department for their residents but they are well under the 80-hour rule.

There is a heavy emphasis on academics in this program so any time that you thought would be great for moonlighting is taken up with study. This is not a laid-back program in terms of what is expected of each resident academically so we tend to hit the books early and often.

I would not plan on having moonlighting income as a resident. If you find that you need money that badly, you are going to need to pare your lifestyle down. It is tough for a family on a resident's salary but a little money is better than the negative income I earned during medical school. 🙄

njbmd

 

[hotbovie1]

I'm under the impression that any moonlighting either within your program or outside of it will have to be reported and counted as part of the 80 hours as of July 1. Since most surgery programs will have trouble limiting hours to 80, I can't imagine that there would be any chance to moonlight.


While interviewing for surgery, I didn't meet any residents that moonlight during the clinical years. However, a number who have opted to do research moonlight during the research years (hours during that time are much less). At some programs the research residents have some call obligations (they usually are only a couple shifts per month) and at others there aren't any obligations. While you shouldn't do research only for moonlighting opportunities, if you opt do do research (or go to a program where it's required) moonlighting is often (but not always) an option then. And I didn't rank any program that prohibits moonlighting during research years. I haven't decided if I will do any research yet, but I want the option to moonlight if I do.

I do whatever I could during med school to keep the debt down. I wish I had!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moonlighting here is essentially limited to those residents in the lab, and generally for one of the local community hospitals without full-time resident coverage at night/weekends.

I know others can make a fair bit of money working places like the annual Farm Show, fair etc during regular working hours, but this tends to be at programs who are more lenient with time off for these things (ie, you won't catch my program allowing me to take a couple of days off during the year to make that $70 a hour).

 

[womansurg]

My classmate (and others in the past) moonlights about once every six weeks. He does a full weekend at a rural ED, usually pulling down several grand, from what I understand.