How rigorous is med school

[Anna1732]

Right now I have a borderline C/D in calc 2 with my goal being to raise my GPA to get into med school. I have As in my two other classes chem and physics 1 but this math class is likely going to turn out to be a C. I can't drop it. I am doing a second undergrad degree but since I am already struggling in a class I worry that I would fail out of med school even if I was accepted. My first undergrad degree is in bio and was horrible so this is my second chance so to speak.

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[Anna1732]

Well pretty much none of med school is as rigorous conceptually as calculus, but med school is basically like a full-time job of studying plus usually time on weekends.

Thank you, I'm used to studying on weekends and evenings. I'm talking to my calc professor tomorrow also as I study the most for that class yet an doing the worst in it.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Moving to pre-allo

 

[candbgirl]

So what are your GPAs from your first degree? Did you know that every college/university class you have ever taken will be counted into your GPA when you apply to med school? That’s why we need to know your GPAs before we can really help you! Why did you decide on a second Bachelors Degree?

 

[Anna1732]

My first degree was a 2.9 associates in liberal arts then I did 3 years and got a biology bachelor's with a 2.3- this was the lowest point in my life where my father passed away unexpectedly. I was dismissed and came back two years later and did above 3.3 and then 3.6 my last year. But my GPA is still damaged.
I'm back now a year later at a CC and I got an A in calc 1 but calc 2 is not going well. I am determined to get into medical school but chose engineering in case I don't get accepted. I know it is hard but all of the med school prereqs are covered through it.

 

[Medic741]

You gotta show you have the ability to academically succeed if you want a shot at med school. Have you taken enough time off academically to heal from that trauma? You really have one last shot at showing you've got the academic backbone for medicine, if you don't feel like your head is in it there's no shame in taking more time off

 

[candbgirl]

What is your cGPA and sGPA for ALL of your courses? I’m really confused by everything you wrote concerning your grades. It seems like you probably have a ton of hours? Is that right? It’s going to be hard to boost your GPA. Read @Goro’s Guide to Reinvention. Do a search and it will pop up.
And Medic744 is right! Don’t go back until you are ready and able to perform at your best. The average GPA for matriculating students for MD schools is 3.7. It’s lower for DO schools but not by a lot. And both types of schools get more competitive every year.

 

[deleted103644]

My first degree was a 2.9 associates in liberal arts then I did 3 years and got a biology bachelor's with a 2.3- this was the lowest point in my life where my father passed away unexpectedly. I was dismissed and came back two years later and did above 3.3 and then 3.6 my last year. But my GPA is still damaged.
I'm back now a year later at a CC and I got an A in calc 1 but calc 2 is not going well. I am determined to get into medical school but chose engineering in case I don't get accepted. I know it is hard but all of the med school prereqs are covered through it.

Why medicine?

Maybe I’m misreading, but it sounds like you already have the equivalent of two undergraduate degrees with most of your term GPAs falling <3.0.

You are struggling with courses at a community college, which usually have lenient curves.

And you have decided to pursue engineering, which is well known for demolishing GPAs even of very capable students (I know more than a few very intelligent people who wanted to become doctors but were unsuccessful after an engineering degree due to GPA).

I do not mean to be cruel, but you almost certainly would not be accepted into any US medical school and would be unlikely to qualify to take the USMLE from a Caribbean school. Do the best you can at your coursework, but you should think about another career.

 

[Anna1732]

It's been 8 years now since my father passed away and I'm finally out of that depression. I went through therapy and all. The CC I go to doesn't have curves it's strict with cut offs but my plan is to transfer to an engineering 4 year for the last 2 years. My GPA at the CC is 3.1 right now and I have 2 additional semesters after this one. I don't know my total gpa from all hours of both schools combined but it's likely a 2.5 and like 200 hours. I didnt decide on medicine seriously until 2014. And I took tons of unnecessary classes from 2009 to 2011. When I graduated I thought I would do research in immunology but couldn't find a job with just a biology bachelor's. I decided I need a higher degree but I can't with my GPA so now I'm doing engineering since it's ok to have just a bs. Also I would like to work on projects that directly impact people's lives if not through medicine than by products being made. I have a family history of immune disease and I would love to learn more about this aspect of health to develop cures or better treatments, especially because it is so under researched and unclear, and dear to my heart. But with my GPA so low I don't know if I will be looked at even with a good mcat, I've never taken it. Carribean is not an option.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Well pretty much none of med school is as rigorous conceptually as calculus, but med school is basically like a full-time job of studying plus usually time on weekends.

Lmaoooo im taking it you haven’t taken physiology

 

[MyOdyssey]

My first degree was a 2.9 associates in liberal arts then I did 3 years and got a biology bachelor's with a 2.3- this was the lowest point in my life where my father passed away unexpectedly. I was dismissed and came back two years later and did above 3.3 and then 3.6 my last year. But my GPA is still damaged.
I'm back now a year later at a CC and I got an A in calc 1 but calc 2 is not going well. I am determined to get into medical school but chose engineering in case I don't get accepted. I know it is hard but all of the med school prereqs are covered through it.

Very few medical schools (close to none) require Calc 2.

You are very unlikely to achieve a High GPA as an engineering major.

 

[Anna1732]

No other major includes the prereqs I need which are orgo 2 and biochem. I really don't know what to do. I can't believe I'm getting a C right now

 

[bushido]

No other major includes the prereqs I need which are orgo 2 and biochem. I really don't know what to do. I can't believe I'm getting a C right now

You can take those classes with any major.

For example, I’m majoring in psychology right now, and despite my advisors trying to strong arm me into taking easier, “psychology major” science courses, I just tell them “no, I need (insert med school pre req here)

I have a buddy who’s majoring in music while he knocks out his prereqs for medschool.

You can take orgo, physics, etc regardless of your major.

Engineering is not the major you’re going to want as a premed. Some can manage, but those are outliers.

 

[deleted103644]

Lmaoooo im taking it you haven’t taken physiology

Physiology is not as rigorous as calculus, from a conceptual standpoint. Unless your school takes a mathematical approach to it, which (with the possible exception of Harvard’s joint program with MIT) none do.

Nothing in medical school is conceptually all that difficult, there’s just a lot of it.

 

[candbgirl]

A 2.5 GPA after 200 hours of courses? And you are majoring in engineering? You aren’t being realistic. I’m not sure how or even if you can fix this GPA situation. You currently will be screened out before anyone even sees your application. Have you found @Goro’s Guide for Students who need reinvention? Start there. If there is any hope that may be your best resource. But always have a backup plan. Out of all the people that apply to med school each cycle 60 percent are rejected.

 

[getdown]

as a whole more rigorous than any of the classes you've taken so far.

 

[Anna1732]

Yes I saw the guide.
Getdown are you in med school?

 

[NicMouse64]

Just having to pass is nice. If you just care to pass and not get a 90% like in undergrad, then it's kinda chill. This only applies if you decide not to drown yourself in ECs like some people in my class do. I'd say it's easier than undergrad for me (I was an engineer though).

 

[chemdoctor]

Change your major. Engineering majors are usually associated with low GPAs. It doesn’t make sense for you to continue pursuing a difficult major when your gpa is already damaged. Try to get through Calc II, but try try TRY to withdraw somehow. Tell the school, do something. If you can’t, take the L and look at Goro’s guide. You’ll probably need a post bacc to get your gpa to a 3.0 and then an SMP.

 

[Anna1732]

I talked to my professor and the lowest grade is replaced with the final, she says a B would be a stretch but doable. I can't withdraw I have an agreement with the college no withdrawals. I will just try my best and update in a month. If I can't get a B I think I will just forget med school ppl say it's harder than engineering so if I can't do this then I don't want to fool myself.

 

[Anna1732]

This engineering degree is my post back I just started this semester and have 2 more semesters then hopefully a transfer, 2 years then if I do well link to a 1 year masters. Unless I get wiped out in calc 2

 

[chemdoctor]

I talked to my professor and the lowest grade is replaced with the final, she says a B would be a stretch but doable. I can't withdraw I have an agreement with the college no withdrawals. I will just try my best and update in a month. If I can't get a B I think I will just forget med school ppl say it's harder than engineering so if I can't do this then I don't want to fool myself.

You do you and make the best decision. Keep in mind, that this is SDN. Not exactly the best place to be when you’re already feeling down. This site sometimes tends to overestimate the competitiveness. Yes it’s competitve, but it’s not impossible. Sift through the BS, ask @Goro for advice and try your best. It is very competitive indeed, but people have had lower GPAs than yours, and have still made it to med school. It’s a long, long road, but definitely doable. You haha to keep an open mind to DO, and I highly highly HIGHLY recommend CHANGING your major. You can still take mds school prereqs if/when you change it. And 99% of med schools do NOT require Calc 2.

Look into a post bac and An SMP. Yes med school is hard, but thinking you can’t handle it Bc of one class is rash. Follow @Goro’s advice for premeds that need reinvention. It’s an incredible resource.

 

[chemdoctor]

WHY woukd you choose an engineering degree as a post bac? Change it!!

 

[nobaddays]

+1 for an engineering degree being a terrible choice for academic reinvention; and unless you're doing chemical engineering (which is even harder than mechanical, civil, etc.), it will not include the Bio or Orgo requirements.

 

[MyOdyssey]

This engineering degree is my post back I just started this semester and have 2 more semesters then hopefully a transfer, 2 years then if I do well link to a 1 year masters. Unless I get wiped out in calc 2

You can do a postbacc without doing a second major or pursuing a second bachelors degree.

Premeds do postbaccs strictly for raising their GPAs and without any intent of getting a second degree. This happens all the time.

If you want to be an engineer, then pursue that but your current course of action will cause you to blow up your GPA while taking courses not needed for medical school. Taking engineering classes is not a good path for medical school especially for someone who's had a history of struggling in school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lmaoooo im taking it you haven’t taken physiology

Phys is not on the same planet as calculus.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Right now I have a borderline C/D in calc 2 with my goal being to raise my GPA to get into med school. I have As in my two other classes chem and physics 1 but this math class is likely going to turn out to be a C. I can't drop it. I am doing a second undergrad degree but since I am already struggling in a class I worry that I would fail out of med school even if I was accepted. My first undergrad degree is in bio and was horrible so this is my second chance so to speak.

If medical school is your goal then I think you're going about the process the wrong way. You likely haven't gotten proper guidance which is unfortunate because you're basically wasting time and money right now (unless you may want to be an engineer instead). You have way too many credits for a DIY post-bacc to have any real effect, especially if that post-bacc gpa isn't a 4.0 (nor is it at a reasonably rigorous university, rather at a CC). Rather than continue to throw good money after bad, I'd suggest making an outline of what you think it would take for you to get into medical school and post it here/send it to me and we can talk about what is realistic and what isn't.
Off the top of my head, I'd look into SMPs that don't have minimum GPAs, get a 3.5+ next semester, and schedule an MCAT for next year so that you can show the programs that you aren't the student with a 2.5 GPA after 12+ semesters of coursework. Honestly if you can do the above and get an MCAT over 500, and you still can't imagine doing anything other than being a physician, Carib schools could maybe be a part of the differential after a failed DO cycle (but certainly not before then).

 

[getdown]

Yes I saw the guide.
Getdown are you in med school?

Nope. I'm finished with all my training.

 

[Anna1732]

Okay, and it's ok with me when posters say my chances are slim to none or their opinion in general I am very emotionally stable. And they may be right.
1234, I am not sure what, besides acing classes for this year, will help me get into med school. Next semester I take ochem 1 calc 3 and physics 2 along with some engineering course. Then next fall I take ochem 2 and physics 3 calc 4 and another engineering class. I failed ochem 2 already and my advisor said to retake ochem 1 since I took it in a summer class and honestly don't remember much, which hurts me in ochem 2. I am going to ask about auditing it.
I've considered taking just the classes I need for med school but unless I'm in a program that requires them I don't qualify for aid and can't afford them. Working and paying would take years, and no degree to show for. But maybe that is a better plan than engineering?

 

[chemdoctor]

Okay, and it's ok with me when posters say my chances are slim to none or their opinion in general I am very emotionally stable. And they may be right.
1234, I am not sure what, besides acing classes for this year, will help me get into med school. Next semester I take ochem 1 calc 3 and physics 2 along with some engineering course. Then next fall I take ochem 2 and physics 3 and another engineering class.
I've considered taking just the classes I need for med school but unless I'm in a program that requires them I don't qualify for aid and can't afford them. Working and paying would take years, and no degree to show for. But maybe that is a better plan than engineering?

I would definitely say it's better than pursuing and taking more engineering courses. I think you've had enough of Calc for your app... Orgo I has a huge learning curve and is a difficult class all on it's own.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Okay, and it's ok with me when posters say my chances are slim to none or their opinion in general I am very emotionally stable. And they may be right.
1234, I am not sure what, besides acing classes for this year, will help me get into med school. Next semester I take ochem 1 calc 3 and physics 2 along with some engineering course. Then next fall I take ochem 2 and physics 3 calc 4 and another engineering class. I failed ochem 2 already and my advisor said to retake ochem 1 since I took it in a summer class and honestly don't remember much, which hurts me in ochem 2. I am going to ask about auditing it.
I've considered taking just the classes I need for med school but unless I'm in a program that requires them I don't qualify for aid and can't afford them. Working and paying would take years, and no degree to show for. But maybe that is a better plan than engineering?

My hesitation with your plan is this. Even if you get a 4.0 for the next 3 semesters (which is certainly not a given with the difficulty of the classes you've chosen and your current trajectory) you will likely still have a lot of difficulty getting into medical school. Fair or not, most schools will still heavily weigh your prior performance against you and decide it isn't worth taking a risk on you. You could potentially have a shot at newer DO schools with lower standards but even then you would have to be exceptional at CC for the next 2 years.
In my opinion there are two realistic ways you can become a physician (and my preference is strongly strongly strongly strongly weighted towards the first but I can't pretend like the second does not exist and works for some people):
1. Do well on an MCAT next year and apply to Special Masters Programs (Postbaccalaureate - AAMC) that have an automatic or preferential link to a medical school and work your butt off.
2. Apply to Carribean medical schools-it will be more expensive, way more risky, harder to match, and a higher chance of failing out with a tremendous amount of debt-but faster. I'd bet you could be in a Big 4 school by January.

 

[Anna1732]

Thanks for replying. I can't afford a carribean school, so plan A by default. IDK about taking the MCAT without retaking orgo2. I would have to wait until 2020. I thought the official smps have gpa requirements.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Thanks for replying. I can't afford a carribean school, so plan A by default. IDK about taking the MCAT without retaking orgo2. I would have to wait until 2020. I thought the official smps have gpa requirements.

Some SMPs do. Some have it based on most recent X number of credits. Unfortunately there are 100's and I did my post-bacc 6 years ago so I can't be of much help with specifics, you'll have to do the digging.
Just so you know, American medical school costs approximately the same as some Carib ones.

 

[Goro]

Some SMPs do. Some have it based on most recent X number of credits. Unfortunately there are 100's and I did my post-bacc 6 years ago so I can't be of much help with specifics, you'll have to do the digging.
Just so you know, American medical school costs approximately the same as some Carib ones.

But with American med schools, you have a >95% chance of matching. Carib schools? Flip a coin.

BTW, upward GPA trends are always good

 

[medschoolonsteroid]

Physiology is not as rigorous as calculus, from a conceptual standpoint. Unless your school takes a mathematical approach to it, which (with the possible exception of Harvard’s joint program with MIT) none do.

Nothing in medical school is conceptually all that difficult, there’s just a lot of it.

I don't know... I did engineering so I took classes like multivariable calc, signal processing, system transport etc

Pathophys isn't as easy as people say. It's easy to memorize facts for tests in med school but to understand the underlying processes I think it's almost as difficult as those subjects conceptually + a lot more memorization.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Phys is not on the same planet as calculus.

It sure seems like it Especially bloody ultrasound wtf

 

[MyOdyssey]

Okay, and it's ok with me when posters say my chances are slim to none or their opinion in general I am very emotionally stable. And they may be right.
1234, I am not sure what, besides acing classes for this year, will help me get into med school. Next semester I take ochem 1 calc 3 and physics 2 along with some engineering course. Then next fall I take ochem 2 and physics 3 calc 4 and another engineering class. I failed ochem 2 already and my advisor said to retake ochem 1 since I took it in a summer class and honestly don't remember much, which hurts me in ochem 2. I am going to ask about auditing it.
I've considered taking just the classes I need for med school but unless I'm in a program that requires them I don't qualify for aid and can't afford them. Working and paying would take years, and no degree to show for. But maybe that is a better plan than engineering?

Do you want to be an engineer? It's a shorter path than medical school given your academic record so far and it's far less GPA-dependent.

If you have to be in a degree earning program to receive aid from your school and (a) you don't want to be an engineer and (b) you desperately want to go to medical school, you might consider psychology as a major. The MCAT is 25% psychology, 25% biology, 25% chemistry/physics and 25% reading comprehension. Psychology is easier than engineering and prepares you for the MCAT.

Classes like Calc 3 and Calc 4 are not required by medical schools and you risk blowing up your GPA by taking them at the same time as physics and organic chemistry.