How satisfied on average are path residents?

[EC3]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Do most of you guys/girls feel happy with your decision? Do you get to do a lot of thinking while minimizing the scut? What about time for being with your wife and kids?

Thx.

 

[LADoc00]

Do most of you guys/girls feel happy with your decision? Do you get to do a lot of thinking while minimizing the scut? What about time for being with your wife and kids?

Thx.

even if you managed to escape residency and fellowship without a time crunch, eventually it will catch up with you. There is an immense divide between pathologists out in the real world in terms of compensation, most of it based on how far you are willing to sacrifice personal life for income. The curve is not linear tho, those that really sacrifice work take massive income hits ie- people that think they will be making 50% of what I make if they work 50% of my hours are in for a suprise, their real compensation will likely be 20% or less.

Scut follows you everywhere, forever, its just called different things at different stages. Scut grossing in residency becomes scut compliance paperwork in the real world. It never ends and never really gets much better.

 

[yaah]

Is this like a 1-5 scale,
1) Strongly dissatisfied
2) Dissatisfied
3) Neither satisfied nor unsatisfied
4) Satisfied
5) Extremely satisfied

It's like a CAP survey.

I'm satisfied, probably more than average, but pathology as a career has things that interest me and that I like doing. There will always be times you have to prioritize work over family, but in general it isn't all the time, and path to me is more flexible than what I hear about in other fields. But as I always say, if you don't like it and/or you aren't any good at it the side benefits aren't going to mean squat.

 

[2121115]

curve is not linear tho, those that really sacrifice work take massive income hits ie- people that think they will be making 50% of what I make if they work 50% of my hours are in for a suprise, their real compensation will likely be 20% or less.

I don't have experience in private practice pathology yet, but I do have experience running a business and I've had this exact conversation with some residents at my program. I had a suspicion that they were being a little unrealistic but didn't have any evidence to back myself up. Many residents at my program have mentioned that they might "go into private practice and make 200K part time" and enjoy their free time, family, and what not. The thinking being that if a full partner makes 350K "full time" (scare quotes because the terms 'full time' and 'part time' apply to people punching clocks) then the half time pay will be half of that, etc. My suspicion was that this may apply if you are an assembly line worker, but not if you are running a business (i.e. a pathology group). All I can say is that if I am an invested partner in a practice and I hire a part time employee it is unlikely to be for 200K plus benefits, I can tell you that. 🙂

 

[docbiohazard]

One thing I've noticed as I go through third year is how many residents in OTHER specialities react positively when I tell them I'm interested in Path... seems like there is a lot of lifestyle envy... and the Path residents at my institution seem happier than just about any of the other residents I've met.

I guess it just comes down to your philosophy. I'd rather make less money and enjoy what I'm doing than make a ton of money (say as a CT surgeon in private practice or something) and hate my training, hate my life, and have no time to enjoy any of my earnings with my family.

Now, I need to stop studying and go study for my medicine shelf 😛
BH

 

[l&usibari]

I have not once doubted my decision to go into Pathology. I had pressure from my family during med school to go into a clinical field, but I put a lot of thought into the decision-making process and felt that Path was the right choice for me. I have not regretted it. I certainly do not think that every speciality within the field is for me, i.e. blood bank, but there is enough variety and enough options for me to find a niche. I think the only other field I might have been happy in is Radiology.

 

[docbiohazard]

For me, it's been a bit of a diagnosis of exclusion. When I started, I was thinking Internal Medicine... but being an MD/PhD a lot has changed from when I started school. My research definitely influenced my decision because I realized I felt more comfortable with the research that interested pathologists and that pathologists were involved with... and personality wise, it just seems a better fit.

So after going through most of third year and ruling out subspecializing in meds or peds, I've decided on Pathology. There seems to me to be a great diversity in the field. I think I prefer diagnosis to treatment, and figuring on being in academics and being less able to select a patient population, I think I'll be ok without that direct patient care. I do enjoy patient care, on some levels, but I think I would tire of it quickly. I certainly have grown sick of outpatient medicine. 🙂

 

[mlw03]

I think I prefer diagnosis to treatment
I think I'll be ok without that direct patient care. I do enjoy patient care, on some levels, but I think I would tire of it quickly.

these are some of the exact same sentiments and reasons that i too have decided path is best for me. the path residents i know at my institution seem like happy, normal human beings who enjoy their work, but also enjoy their families, friends, and life outside of work. on the other hand, i just got off surgery and every day i went home thinking, "damn, these residents seem like a really bummed out group of people." a lot of them just had a look of defeat on their faces all the time, like they had accepted that all they'll do is work, work, and work some more. i sure don't want to end up like that.

 

[docbiohazard]

Yep. It bothered me that so many of the surgery residents I met who had been married at the start of residency were already divorced. I also don't do well with the whole "motivation through degradation" approach that seems to still be popular with some surgery attendings. The residents would always say, "Oh, you just can't take it personally..." etc but I'm not wired that way.

You hear a lot of older docs who complain about how students today are concerned about lifestyle, but I fail to see the noble purpose in martyrdom of oneself to a system which has failed to respond to the changing needs and demands of the people who work within it.

 

[mlw03]

You hear a lot of older docs who complain about how students today are concerned about lifestyle, but I fail to see the noble purpose in martyrdom of oneself to a system which has failed to respond to the changing needs and demands of the people who work within it.

very well said. in most other types of business, industry leaders recognize the changing needs and wants of their potential employees and respond by providing those things to recruit the best workers. it seems like pathology has done that - programs hire PAs to help with grossing, have reasonable call schedules, and generally seem to treat residents with respect. yet many surgery programs, certainly the one at my school, don't seem to do that. the really perplexing thing is that i keep hearing how general surgery is getting increasinly competitive. why do people like to punish themselves? i suppose as long as they keep filling their programs, they won't have to respond. but there certainly seems to be a divide between general surgeons (and their subspecialties like trauma, vascular, etc) and pretty much every other specialty. and quite frankly, that's fine by me.

 

[schrute]

very well said. in most other types of business, industry leaders recognize the changing needs and wants of their potential employees and respond by providing those things to recruit the best workers. it seems like pathology has done that - programs hire PAs to help with grossing, have reasonable call schedules, and generally seem to treat residents with respect. yet many surgery programs, certainly the one at my school, don't seem to do that. the really perplexing thing is that i keep hearing how general surgery is getting increasinly competitive. why do people like to punish themselves? i suppose as long as they keep filling their programs, they won't have to respond. but there certainly seems to be a divide between general surgeons (and their subspecialties like trauma, vascular, etc) and pretty much every other specialty. and quite frankly, that's fine by me.

I think part of it has to do with the personality types that go into path, and that many of the people that do path could easily pursue a surgical field, but prefer to direct their efforts into more cerebral / mental endeavors than be a technician (which is what many fields train you to be).
that, and medical school has a tendency to feed some peoples' competitive natures.

yea, i'm probably not going to be like that transplant surgeon i saw on TLC that performs total abdominal transplants and gets 1-2 hours of sleep a night...but that's fine with me.

 

[sequela]

You hear a lot of older docs who complain about how students today are concerned about lifestyle, but I fail to see the noble purpose in martyrdom of oneself to a system which has failed to respond to the changing needs and demands of the people who work within it.

well said. this is the very toxicity that is the culture of medicine.

 

[schrute]

to me it seems not unlike the differences in the types of men that enter special forces versus the regular army: a combination of personality and skills, and there's plenty of supply clerks and cooks that, had their life situations been different, they could have gone SF. either way, they're all for the same cause; the intel guys may not be breaking up terrorist cells, but they're still serving the same cause and doing their part.

...just perhaps not as catecholamine-driven.

 

[docbiohazard]

Wow, thanks for the compliments. I kind of jumped in with both feet this morning...

I know that somewhere inside my Bioethics textbook (of the same name), there was an essay that delved into the importance of physicians tending to their own life needs. I can't remember if it was by Bernard Lo, or someone else...

The basic point was that there was an inherent value in the physician tending to his personal life, that happy, well adjusted physicians ultimately are better physicians for longer periods of time, and that physicians that run themselves and their families into the ground aren't doing themselves any favors.

This is not to say you can't be that guy that only sleeps an hour a night and is totally devoted to your career, if that's what you want and it makes you happy (and you can afford all that Provigil), then more power to you, but there is an inherent worth to taking care of oneself and one's family, mentally and physically.

And speaking of sleep... 😴