How smart are Orthopedic surgeons?

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Spine Specialist said:
http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:)
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When I saw the title of this thread, I was going to post this exact same article haha. My favorite part is the conclusion:

"The stereotypical image of male orthopaedic surgeons as strong but stupid is unjustified in comparison with their male anaesthetist counterparts. The comedic repertoire of the average anaesthetist needs to be revised in the light of these data. However, we would recommend caution in making fun of orthopaedic surgeons, as unwary anaesthetists may find themselves on the receiving end of a sharp and quick witted retort from their intellectually sharper friends or may be greeted with a crushing handshake at their next encounter"
 
hahaha, have seen you that there is one anesthesiologist with an IQ about 60?!

whoa this guy must be a beast when he has still made it through medschool! :D
 
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Toennis said:
hahaha, have seen you that there is one anesthesiologist with an IQ about 60?!

whoa this guy must be a beast when he has still made it through medschool! :D
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Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Apparently Toennis is an anesthesiologist.
 
Toennis said:
Don´t have to. Still stand to it. But thanks for being an *******! (NOT)


:sleep:
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He was pointing out your grammatical errors on a post about someone being unintelligent (irony). Relax.
 
does the phrase "strong as an ox..... and almost as smart" mean anything to you?

LOL just kidding..
 
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Socrates25 said:
does the phrase "strong as an ox..... and almost as smart" mean anything to you?

LOL just kidding..
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I certainly don't get your point. Depending on the author, solid data can be described in humorous ways. My point is, again, whether it is throw the whole baby out with the bathwater, or whether it was strictly a fiction from top to bottom. It's not like it is so outrageous as to be obvious satire.
 
Spine Specialist said:
http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506








:)
Click to expand...

Funny. I suspect that the difference in IQ between orthopaedic surgeons and anesthesiologists in the U.S. would be significantly greater given the difference in the mean Step I and II scores, and medical school grades. Don't know about grip strength.

I always find it interesting that orthopaedic surgeons play up to the stereotype of the dumb jock. Everyone knows that you guys are very smart, disciplined students. Why not embrace your intellectual prowess, as well as your physical strength? Is it so repugnant to the ortho community to be thought of as smart jocks, than dumb jocks?
 
igap said:
I always find it interesting that orthopaedic surgeons play up to the stereotype of the dumb jock. Everyone knows that you guys are very smart, disciplined students. Why not embrace your intellectual prowess, as well as your physical strength? Is it so repugnant to the ortho community to be thought of as smart jocks, than dumb jocks?
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We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.
 
skiz knot said:
We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.
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:thumbup:
 
skiz knot said:
We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.
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This.

And...why should I admit the 65yo female with an isolated hip fracture and a host of medical problems that are "stable"? I can tell you why we don't....no one wants these train wrecks sitting on your service for days when we can just simply place a hemi in there, do two dressing changes and call it a cure.
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
This.

And...why should I admit the 65yo female with an isolated hip fracture and a host of medical problems that are "stable"? I can tell you why we don't....no one wants these train wrecks sitting on your service for days when we can just simply place a hemi in there, do two dressing changes and call it a cure.
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You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.
 
skiz knot said:
We "play up" the dumb jock angle because we should not be managing acute and chronic medical conditions outside of the field of orthopaedics. We do not have the training during our residency to keep up to date with treatments. Just because your cardiologist is really smart and did a surgery rotation in medical school doesn't mean they should perform your appendectomy.
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I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."
 
DHT said:
You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.
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I'm sure the same is true for orthopedics primaries vs consults; everyone always looks a little closer at "their own" patients first before consults.

I'm also not sure that admitting to medicine is any better. At least at my hospital, surgery consults dont get the same attention as surgery primaries, meaning their surgeries are more likely to be delayed so the surgery folks can concentrate on their primary patients first. So the "chronic" patient ends up waiting a few days for surgery and then of course the **** hits the fan because they pick up cdiff or some other hospital-related complication while they were waiting for you guys to fix her.
 
Socrates25 said:
I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."
Click to expand...

Admittedly, we don't do a good job recognizing when the patients aren't doing that hot.
 
DHT said:
You don't place a hemi, you slam one in. Gotta sound more macho.

Also my experience is that medicine consults do not pay as close attention as medicine primaries. If my wife's grandma broke her hip (mine are dead) I would want a medicine admit.
Click to expand...

I wanted to say slam it in, but I didnt want to sound too douchey. You know, Im practicing my patient talk.
 
Socrates25 said:
I agree with you in principle -- however far too often we get calls like "this patient is on a bunch of home meds" and want us to take over even when all of the patient's other medical issues are completely stable. Continuing the home regimen of a patient on 20 different meds that are all stable and dont require any kind of dosing changes should NOT lead to a transfer of service or a consult. If a patient's other medical problems rise to the surface following surgery, then by all means order a consult or transfer service.

It would be similar to me ordering an orthopedics consult on a 50 year old guy who was admitted for chest pain because he had a hip replaced 2 months ago and "we dont know anything about how to manage his hardware."
Click to expand...

I agree completely with you. Its disheartening for me to round with my ortho attendings who consult IM on (literally) every patient - its not that hard to circle the "C" on the med sheet to continue home meds. The way I see it is that the ortho guys have no incentive to manage this stuff, even if they wanted to. We can consult medicine, which results in 1) less work with equal pay, and 2) the IM guys are generally happy because they can get paid for seeing an easy patient that took all of 10 minutes to see/dictate an H&P. I would like to think that after having been through med school I had the competency to manage these basic things, and as Socrates25 mentions, if problems arise after surgery then get a consult.
 
climbhigh said:
I agree completely with you. Its disheartening for me to round with my ortho attendings who consult IM on (literally) every patient - its not that hard to circle the "C" on the med sheet to continue home meds. The way I see it is that the ortho guys have no incentive to manage this stuff, even if they wanted to. We can consult medicine, which results in 1) less work with equal pay, and 2) the IM guys are generally happy because they can get paid for seeing an easy patient that took all of 10 minutes to see/dictate an H&P. I would like to think that after having been through med school I had the competency to manage these basic things, and as Socrates25 mentions, if problems arise after surgery then get a consult.
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I came in with this attitude. It was frowned upon. Who wants to deal with the legalities of something that you were only trained for in medical school? Its all about avoiding unnecessary risk.
 
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