How the heck to analyze a match list

[Espressso]

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maybe a dumb question? But I can't find much info via search

When you see various school's match lists. What should you be looking for exactly? Whether most students are clustered in a few specialties? Big name residency programs? How many students in the type of residency you want yourself? I'm slightly confused on how people can extrapolate so much out of a match list. Or, are match lists in themselves fairly pointless? Seems to me that there are a ton of variables that are at play.

sos

 

[Scrubs101]

Meh im just a lowly OMS0 who knows little to nothing about quality/competitive residencies, but i think theres some point to checking out a schools match lists.

Ill probably get corrected here as im not a 100% sure but this is how i look at them.

-consistency in matching certain locations between years
-ACGME % > AOA% is good(this will be not true anymore as more and more programs become ACGME and AOA dies out)
- university usually > community
- high competitive specialties are usually based on the individual but theyre still pretty to look at as a pre-med

I would not base your school selection off of match lists however.

Edit: should mention that things like hyper competitive matches or high PC % say more about the students the schools recruit than the schools themselves IMO. If you wanna see if a school pushes primary care check the curriculum and ask current students, dont check the match lists.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Goro]

Trying to discern match list is at the best, like trying to read tea leaves, and at the worst, a fool's errand.

I used to be guilty of this, until our wise resident colleagues set me straight: You 'd think "IM at U WA or Neurology at Georgetown" would be impressive, because those are Big Name Schools. But at within Big Name Schools, there can be bad or mediocre residencies.

What you don't know is how good are the programs. To discern this, you really need the expertise of people in the field. So, if you want to know what a good vascular surgery program is, ask a vascular surgeon. An analogous situation is with post-doctoral fellowships. I know where the good grad programs are in my field, but I'd be lost to try and tell you where, say, some good neuroscience grad programs are.


What I do find of interest in a match list is how many people are going into ACGME vs AOA (soon to be a moot point), and how many go into specialties vs Primary Care.

maybe a dumb question? But I can't find much info via search

When you see various school's match lists. What should you be looking for exactly? Whether most students are clustered in a few specialties? Big name residency programs? How many students in the type of residency you want yourself? I'm slightly confused on how people can extrapolate so much out of a match list. Or, are match lists in themselves fairly pointless? Seems to me that there are a ton of variables that are at play.

sos

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The only thing I would look at is if you want a certain specialty, say surgery, and only one or two students match surgery over a number of years (very important, one year doesn't matter) then that school is probably not the best for an aspiring a surgeon. Can you still become a surgeon though? Absolutely.

Another possible thing is to look strictly at IM matches and see what percentage of the matches are at university programs year after year (again the trend is whatbis important)

Edit: no matter what though I still wouldn't choose a school based in match list. You can do anything from pretty much anywhere, I mean LMU had a lot of surgery matches this last year and an ACGME ortho match. Just goes to show if you work hard and network intelligently your school won't limit you.

 

[hallowmann]

You don't. Short of seeing how many place into GME or how many place categorical vs. pre-lim only, you really don't have the knowledge to analyze match lists.

The only thing you may be able to do is look at specific programs that you know you're interested in on a match list, but even that varies so much composition of the class among a million other things that its pointless. Besides, you'll change your mind 10 times in med school and not realize how awesome or sucky programs are until you show up there for rotations or interviews (and even then you might not know).

 

[Peach Newport]

Okay here goes.

One person marching into an impressive field (ACGME derm) or an impressive name place means pretty much nothing, but several people matching impressive ACGME might mean that the school has good board prep. For example, PCOM's match list wasn't impressive because it had that Upenn plastics match, it was impressive for delivering consistently good matches. Multiple ACGME surgical matches is a very good sign.

Lots of people specializing vs. primary care is a good sign, but lots of PC matches is not necessarily bad.

Lots of people going into competitive fields (even if they're AOA) IS a good sign, but lack of it is not necessarily a bad sign.

Lots of people going to geographically nearby university medical centers (like, say, 4 matches at a nearby ACGME university hospital) is a good sign. It tells you that the school is well regarded by some in the area.

What are some bad signs?

It is a bad sign when a lot of people are going into primary care fields at DISTANT, no-name community hospitals, especially when most of the students are from that area. If you're a school, say, in Chicago, and most of your students are from Chicago, why would they need to scatter all over the country just to do a community IM residency?

 

[abolt18]

maybe a dumb question? But I can't find much info via search

When you see various school's match lists. What should you be looking for exactly? Whether most students are clustered in a few specialties? Big name residency programs? How many students in the type of residency you want yourself? I'm slightly confused on how people can extrapolate so much out of a match list. Or, are match lists in themselves fairly pointless? Seems to me that there are a ton of variables that are at play.

sos

As I'm waiting to match in a month, and having just seen friends match in the DO match, I've come to realize you quite literally cannot judge the quality of a school by the match lists. I have classmates who are truly stellar individuals, crushed the USMLE, top of the class, who are doing FM or IM at "no-name" programs because of so many personal reasons like location and simple preference.

I've also come to find that people who match at really excellent programs (the so-called "impressive" matches) have done so on their own merits. They've done all they could to place themselves in the right places, working with the right people, getting the right letters of recommendation. I literally think nothing of school match lists anymore. It's all just personal preference.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Trying to discern match list is at the best, like trying to read tea leaves, and at the worst, a fool's errand.

I used to be guilty of this, until our wise resident colleagues set me straight: You 'd think "IM at U WA or Neurology at Georgetown" would be impressive, because those are Big Name Schools. But at within Big Name Schools, there can be bad or mediocre residencies.

What you don't know is how good are the programs. To discern this, you really need the expertise of people in the field. So, if you want to know what a good vascular surgery program is, ask a vascular surgeon. An analogous situation is with post-doctoral fellowships. I know where the good grad programs are in my field, but I'd be lost to try and tell you where, say, some good neuroscience grad programs are.


What I do find of interest in a match list is how many people are going into ACGME vs AOA (soon to be a moot point), and how many go into specialties vs Primary Care.

Bashing IM at U WA and Neurology at Georgetown....shame

Just a friendly reminder to keep the conversation civil and professional.

 

[abolt18]

Bashing IM at U WA and Neurology at Georgetown....shame

Just a friendly reminder to keep the conversation civil and professional.

Sensitive much?

Also, no one bashed anything. He only stated their match is not necessarily impressive based solely on the name.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Sensitive much?

Also, no one bashed anything. He only stated their match is not necessarily impressive based solely on the name.

Name calling much?
Please keep the conversation civil and professional. Thanks.

 

[GimpGenius]

Missing the point a bit, Hype.

Name recognition doesn't always equate to program strength. Insert any program or field you want. Ultimately, there are enough X factors in matching from year to year and from person to person to make analysis of lists a crapshoot.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Missing the point a bit, Hype.

Name recognition doesn't always equate to program strength. Insert any program or field you want. Ultimately, there are enough X factors in matching from year to year and from person to person to make analysis of lists a crapshoot.

yes but to outright bash programs....I've never seen such tasteless behavior before...especially from a user proclaiming to be an ADCOM.

Despicable behavior.

 

[abolt18]

Name calling much?
Please keep the conversation civil and professional. Thanks.

Lol just looked through your post history and it appears your most common statement is "please keep the conversation civil and personal" so either you're trolling hard or you need some thicker skin.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Lol just looked through your post history and it appears your most common statement is "please keep the conversation civil and personal" so either you're trolling hard or you need some thicker skin.

Please keep the conversation civil and professional. Thanks.

 

[abolt18]

yes but to outright bash programs....I've never seen such tasteless behavior before...especially from a user proclaiming to be an ADCOM.

Despicable behavior.

Lol.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Lol.

don't attempt to troll me.

 

[abolt18]

don't attempt to troll me.

How dare you call me names.

 

[HypePillarMan]

How dare you call me names.

I did not call you names. Please don't harrass me, troll me, name call me.

Please keep the conversation civil and professional. Thanks.

 

[abolt18]

I did not call you names. Please don't harrass me, troll me, name call me.

Please keep the conversation civil and professional. Thanks.

 

[HypePillarMan]

Please keep the conversation ontopic and professional. Thanks.

 

[Goro]

Can anyone enlighten just to how stupid this troll could have been??? He completely missed what I was getting at.

I do love the smacking sound in the morning that the Banhammer makes!

But back to topic at hand; excellent point above as to the nebulous nature of match lists.

Another thing to consider was something a clinical Dean once told me: "If it's the student first choice, it's a good match."

Bashing IM at U WA and Neurology at Georgetown....shame

Just a friendly reminder to keep the conversation civil and professional.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Can anyone enlighten just to how stupid this troll could have been??? He completely missed what I was getting at.

I do love the smacking sound in the morning that the Banhammer makes!

But back to topic at hand; excellent point above as to the nebulous nature of match lists.

Another thing to consider was something a clinical Dean once told me: "If it's the student first choice, it's a good match."

Don't worry about it, it's just your weekly HamsterBoo account causing their typical mischief.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Don't let these match lists make you lose focus on what you should be looking for in a school. I will list these again:

1) Mandatory versus non-mandatory attendance: Pick the non-mandatory in almost every situation. If you like class, still pick the non-mandatory and go to class. This flexibility is huge especially for board studying and just having a life in general.
2) Excellent clinical rotations with GME at close proximity: You want a school that puts a strong emphasis in GME and its rotations. I think good hints of this are rotations that are close to the school and the school sponsoring those residencies.
3) Being in a city: The best way to get the most opportunities in terms of research and being near hospitals is being in a city. There are new schools that are in a city that I would rank higher than old schools in remote locations.
4) Tuition: Goes without saying, lower the cost of your education to make you a doctor the better.

Don't lose sight of the above.

If you are wondering about how whether the match was a good one or not (for enrichment sake), then I suggest going to the specialty forums and actually looking at the lists they make. I gained a good grasp of interpreting the lists from their input. However, these lists can change and in the end you can only get a true understanding from the horse's mouth, meaning from the PDs themselves.

 

[td2016]

Don't let these match lists make you lose focus on what you should be looking for in a school. I will list these again:

1) Mandatory versus non-mandatory attendance: Pick the non-mandatory in almost every situation. If you like class, still pick the non-mandatory and go to class. This flexibility is huge especially for board studying and just having a life in general.
2) Excellent clinical rotations with GME at close proximity: You want a school that puts a strong emphasis in GME and its rotations. I think good hints of this are rotations that are close to the school and the school sponsoring those residencies.
3) Being in a city: The best way to get the most opportunities in terms of research and being near hospitals is being in a city. There are new schools that are in a city that I would rank higher than old schools in remote locations.
4) Tuition: Goes without saying, lower the cost of your education to make you a doctor the better.

Don't lose sight of the above.

If you are wondering about how whether the match was a good one or not (for enrichment sake), then I suggest going to the specialty forums and actually looking at the lists they make. I gained a good grasp of interpreting the lists from their input. However, these lists can change and in the end you can only get a true understanding from the horse's mouth, meaning from the PDs themselves.

is there a website that list every DO school's sponsored residency programs? Could you list some schools with strong clinical rotations with GME at close proximity? Thanks!

 

[IslandStyle808]

is there a website that list every DO school's sponsored residency programs? Could you list some schools with strong clinical rotations with GME at close proximity? Thanks!

Some schools are very straight forward with it (like KCU) and they will show you both rotations and GME associated on their websitehttp://www.kcumb.edu/programs/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/clerkships/clerkship-sites. However, you can use the following site:http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm Just put down what state and look to see which school sponsors the programs. When it comes down to which rotations are strong, I cannot say, but there are threads from students who have rated their school. Use that to figure out which rotations are strong.

 

[Scrubs101]

is there a website that list every DO school's sponsored residency programs? Could you list some schools with strong clinical rotations with GME at close proximity? Thanks!

I usually just google "school name OPTI" and find the lists relatively quickly.

Examples:
http://www.pcom.edu/academics/mednet/residency-programs.html

https://www.ohio.edu/medicine/about/offices/core/gme-partners.cfm

http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/omeco/programs.php

http://www.rockymountainopti.com

https://scs.msu.edu/programs/

https://www.unthsc.edu/texas-college-of-osteopathic-medicine/texas-opti/our-gme-programs/

http://www.kcumb.edu/programs/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/residency

http://www.rowan.edu/som/education/graduate_medical/residencies.html



Edit: was beaten to it, what he said^^^ some schools dont share their clinical rotations for what ever reason and they can change from year to year depending on the school

 

[acapnial]

I usually just google "school name OPTI" and find the lists relatively quickly.

Examples:
http://www.pcom.edu/academics/mednet/residency-programs.html

https://www.ohio.edu/medicine/about/offices/core/gme-partners.cfm

http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/omeco/programs.php

http://www.rockymountainopti.com

https://scs.msu.edu/programs/

https://www.unthsc.edu/texas-college-of-osteopathic-medicine/texas-opti/our-gme-programs/

http://www.kcumb.edu/programs/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/residency

http://www.rowan.edu/som/education/graduate_medical/residencies.html



Edit: was beaten to it, what he said^^^ some schools dont share their clinical rotations for what ever reason and they can change from year to year depending on the school

Also worth noting that the OPTI and the school's rotations are not one and the same. A bunch of the local residencies we rotate at were not developed by our OPTI.

 

[JB50]

You don't. You get through med school and match and don't care.