how to approach PI after I was a complete coward...:(

[ariax]

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Hi!

So about 3 weeks ago I was sitting in an area and saw my PI was two other PhDs from my office. She was with other people. I know she saw me but I completely ignored her and just pretended to look at my book. I'll say it was probably obvious I was trying to avoid her 🙁

I avoided her because this term I only probably showed up to the lab 1-2 times a month this semester (maybe like twice in Sept, once in Oct, and then I started going a 1-3x in November) because I was so overwhelmed with work and felt it was important to prioritize my school work before research. This would be understandable if I kept her in the loop but I haven't talked to her since like August/Sept which was wrong on my part.

Around the time I saw her I had started an experiment and had gone back the next day to complete it and one of the master's students told me that the PI told her to tell me not to continue experiments until I spoke to her...
I was getting all stressed out that I was going to not be allowed to continue at her lab and I told this masters student how I completely avoided her and that was probably not the best thing to do but she said she sounded like she wanted to talk me about experiments and if I'm really fully trained enough to do my own experiments bc if I mess up it could contaminate our cells and that would be harmful/slow the rest of the lab down bc they can't do experiments (the other day prior to her telling me I constantly kept messing up...). My masters student thinks she just wants to talk to me and see if I can really commit to this lab. I was worried about being asked to leave and the masters student told me my PI definitely wouldn't ask me to leave. So it seems like she's more concerned about me not being fully trained (in addition to wanting to know where I've been).

So that was 3ish weeks ago and I want to write to her today asking to meet.

I'm not sure how to address it and was wondering if what I write below would be acceptable?

"Dear Dr. XXX,

I was asked to come speak to you before I continue any experiments and I wanted to come speak to you as well about general lab matters. I apologize for not emailing this semester as I was very occupied with personal issues and academics and unfortunately was not able to commit to research as much as I originally planned. As things have settled down I would like to come speak to whenever is most convenient for you."

I know I shouldn't have waited 3 weeks, I am embarrassed and I know I've been irresponsible. I just want to fix this issue with my PI so I don't feel like I have to avoid her.

And yes me not being fully trained is likely another issue (I have been in this lab for a year now and I've done experiments before but I am a klutz and mess up often. Research is just something I pursued so I can check the box. I don't enjoy it that much and will not be continuing after graduation. I might pursue clinical research. I just really don't enjoy bench research).

 

[Lannister]

Oh my God, are you me? I basically did the same thing this semester, except I skipped lab group every week instead of actual lab. Let us know how it turns out cuz I've been stressing about this as well!

 

[ariax]

Oh my God, are you me? I basically did the same thing this semester, except I skipped lab group every week instead of actual lab. Let us know how it turns out cuz I've been stressing about this as well!

Have you talked to your PI? How did you approach her? What did you say in person/email? I am a bit terrified of speaking to her now

 

[RuggerMD]

Research is just something I pursued so I can check the box.

Dude, get out of this lab. If you don't enjoy it, don't stay. You don't have a history of being responsible or doing the science well so you aren't going to get a publication/wonderful letter of rec from this professor. There is really no point of you staying. Go get involved in clinical research and chalk this one up to experience.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I'm not going to harp on it since it sounds like you know you messed up. This whole situation could have been avoided if you were honest with your PI from the get-go.

Honestly, if you're not interested in this research, I would email the PI now and say something along the lines of: "Dear Dr. X, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn and contribute to the research being done in your lab. Unfortunately, my academic workload is higher this semester than I expected and I find that I don't have enough time to dedicate to doing well in both research and coursework. For this reason, I will no longer be able to work in the lab. I apologize for any inconvenience that I have caused. Thank you again."

I'm really not sure what the advantage would be of your continuing this work until graduation. 1) You don't enjoy it. Medical schools want to see what you're passionate about! 2) If you weren't adequately trained and have been making mistakes in experiments, there's a good chance you'll return only to be stuck doing grunt work that won't really be impressive to med schools and won't really teach you anything useful. 3) If you really do have a heavy courseload right now, you'd be better off focusing on keeping your GPA up and possibly adding in small volunteer commitments or other ECs where you can. 4) It would be risky at this point to ask this PI for a LOR. I don't think you've done anything incredibly grievous but you wouldn't want them to mention in a letter that you rarely showed up for work and never contacted anyone about it...

I know it can be scary to confront authority figures. You gotta just bite the bullet. Your PI may be disappointed but if you stick with a lackluster EC that you don't enjoy, it's only going to hurt you in the end when it comes time to apply.

 

[moisne]

LOL I avoid my PI when I have no new news either. HAHA.

But I just pretend I never ignored him. If he goes "Dude... you totally gave me the cold shoulder"

I'd joke it off "Sorry J, not intentional - you're brilliance hurt my eyes and I had to look away".

Usually works... lol

 

[Faii]

Honestly if I were you I'd just go in and speak with the PI. Sending her an email when she explicitly told someone she wanted to meet with you sounds like a very very bad idea. Also, you don't know for sure what she wants to speak to you about, and sending a frantic email is not going to help settle her concerns.

You already said you should have spoken with her months ago, so go do it. Sounds like you didn't prioritize getting into lab bc 1) you had a very hard semester - is this going to be a containing trend? And 2) research, or maybe just the kind of research going on in that lab, isn't for you. Maybe you should focus on researching during the summer. Also even if she doesn't ask you to leave, it may actually do you well to try out another lab that interests you more.

As for the box checking, people are going to ask you about what you did and how you handled that experience. Unless you are VERY good at controlling your tone of voice and body language, interviews can probably pick up that this was not a good experience. Also schools may want your PIs LOR, which sounds like it wouldn't be too strong at this point.

 

[ariax]

Dude, get out of this lab. If you don't enjoy it, don't stay. You don't have a history of being responsible or doing the science well so you aren't going to get a publication/wonderful letter of rec from this professor. There is really no point of you staying. Go get involved in clinical research and chalk this one up to experience.

I'm not going to harp on it since it sounds like you know you messed up. This whole situation could have been avoided if you were honest with your PI from the get-go.

Honestly, if you're not interested in this research, I would email the PI now and say something along the lines of: "Dear Dr. X, Thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn and contribute to the research being done in your lab. Unfortunately, my academic workload is higher this semester than I expected and I find that I don't have enough time to dedicate to doing well in both research and coursework. For this reason, I will no longer be able to work in the lab. I apologize for any inconvenience that I have caused. Thank you again."

I'm really not sure what the advantage would be of your continuing this work until graduation. 1) You don't enjoy it. Medical schools want to see what you're passionate about! 2) If you weren't adequately trained and have been making mistakes in experiments, there's a good chance you'll return only to be stuck doing grunt work that won't really be impressive to med schools and won't really teach you anything useful. 3) If you really do have a heavy courseload right now, you'd be better off focusing on keeping your GPA up and possibly adding in small volunteer commitments or other ECs where you can. 4) It would be risky at this point to ask this PI for a LOR. I don't think you've done anything incredibly grievous but you wouldn't want them to mention in a letter that you rarely showed up for work and never contacted anyone about it...

I know it can be scary to confront authority figures. You gotta just bite the bullet. Your PI may be disappointed but if you stick with a lackluster EC that you don't enjoy, it's only going to hurt you in the end when it comes time to apply.

Honestly if I were you I'd just go in and speak with the PI. Sending her an email when she explicitly told someone she wanted to meet with you sounds like a very very bad idea. Also, you don't know for sure what she wants to speak to you about, and sending a frantic email is not going to help settle her concerns.

You already said you should have spoken with her months ago, so go do it. Sounds like you didn't prioritize getting into lab bc 1) you had a very hard semester - is this going to be a containing trend? And 2) research, or maybe just the kind of research going on in that lab, isn't for you. Maybe you should focus on researching during the summer. Also even if she doesn't ask you to leave, it may actually do you well to try out another lab that interests you more.

As for the box checking, people are going to ask you about what you did and how you handled that experience. Unless you are VERY good at controlling your tone of voice and body language, interviews can probably pick up that this was not a good experience. Also schools may want your PIs LOR, which sounds like it wouldn't be too strong at this point.

I do like the idea of research. I actually enjoy reading papers and I realize the importance of it in medicine. I like drawing conclusions and data and finding trends. I just REALLY don't like doing experiments. It is incredibly draining to do experiment after experiment and if one little thing is messed up, you have to start over.

I can commit about 10 hours a week next semester so I know I have the time next semester. I would like to redeem myself. I am emailing her to schedule an appointment. Do you think if I redeem myself I can get a positive letter of recommendation? If she says no when I ask, then so be it I won't ask... But there's a chance she could say yes.

Do you think I shouldn't bother listing research at all on AMCAS since having no PI LOR might be a potential red flag 🙁

 

[Goro]

1000% this. And OP, you have a lot of growing up to do.

Dude, get out of this lab. If you don't enjoy it, don't stay. You don't have a history of being responsible or doing the science well so you aren't going to get a publication/wonderful letter of rec from this professor. There is really no point of you staying. Go get involved in clinical research and chalk this one up to experience.

 

[ariax]

1000% this. And OP, you have a lot of growing up to do.

I know I've been incredibly irresponsible. I acknowledge it. I am still considering emailing her to meet and see what she has to say. Do you think what I've said in the email is okay?

Also how harmful would it be to include this research experience on AMCAS but not have a PI LOR?

 

[NicMouse64]

Doing the correspondence by email was your first mistake. Things almost always go more smoothly when you can talk about your motivations, etc. in person. I did something similar over the summer, but I also had been working with my lab for a year. I went to talk to my PI and he said it was no problem, keep up the good research, and report back to me in a month. I don't think it would have gone the same way if I emailed him.

Edit: Long story short meet her in her office and see if there is a way of resolving this and keeping a good rapport with your PI

 

[ariax]

Doing the correspondence by email was your first mistake. Things almost always go more smoothly when you can talk about your motivations, etc. in person. I did something similar over the summer, but I also had been working with my lab for a year. I went to talk to my PI and he said it was no problem, keep up the good research, and report back to me in a month. I don't think it would have gone the same way if I emailed him.

I'm not fully explaining myself over email, I'm mainly emailing to schedule an appointment as she's not always in her office.

 

[Glandzburg]

Also how harmful would it be to include this research experience on AMCAS but not have a PI LOR?

Does your school use pre-med committee letters? If so, some medical schools don't even take additional letters, so they wouldn't even know.

 

[NicMouse64]

I'm not fully explaining myself over email, I'm mainly emailing to schedule an appointment as she's not always in her office.

Just say you would like to meet with her. No need to be fancy about it.

"Professor ____,
I would like to schedule a meeting to discuss how this semester has been going so far. Attached is my schedule. Please email me back when we can meet at your earliest convenience.

regards,
_____

 

[7331poas]

How do grown people allow something like this to happen?

 

[Lannister]

Have you talked to your PI? How did you approach her? What did you say in person/email? I am a bit terrified of speaking to her now

My PI hasn't mentioned it, so I haven't brought it up. If she were to say something about it, I'd probably just be honest and say I've been really overwhelmed this semester.

 

[ndafife]

Also how harmful would it be to include this research experience on AMCAS but not have a PI LOR?

Its not harmful unless youre trying for MD/PHDl. Its not going to look like a meaningful experience however, and based on what you're saying it hasn't been so I wouldn't really worry about it

 

[Goro]

I recommend going to see her in person....but the email is fine.

Many people have research without the LOR from PIs. It's so taken for granted that sometimes people have bad relationships with PIs that on NIH post-doc forms, they don't ask for PI LORs, even from your PhD advisor!

But if you haven't been as diligent in the lab as you say you've been, could you be able to fully describe your research project, if asked at interviews?

I know I've been incredibly irresponsible. I acknowledge it. I am still considering emailing her to meet and see what she has to say. Do you think what I've said in the email is okay?

Also how harmful would it be to include this research experience on AMCAS but not have a PI LOR?

 

[RuggerMD]

Do you think if I redeem myself I can get a positive letter of recommendation?

Honestly? No, you probably can't redeem yourself. This totals to months of inconsistent behavior without any communication to someone who invested time and money in you. I totally understand your reaction and thought process, but the lack of communication is inexcusable especially after she called you in and someone talked to you about it. For next time, own up early when you can't make time for something. People understand and will be forgiving. Personally, I'd own up and apologize in person and leave the lab. 10 hours is not sufficient time a week to do anything meaningful science-wise anyways. Especially if you're working with cells, you need to be there often and reliably.

Go spend your time doing something you love. You'll enjoy it, be less stressed, and probably have more to show for it on AMCAS.

 

[RuggerMD]

Oh my God, are you me? I basically did the same thing this semester, except I skipped lab group every week instead of actual lab. Let us know how it turns out cuz I've been stressing about this as well!

If you're gonna skip something, this is the thing to skip. I had to miss lab group for almost two quarters because of class. My PI didn't care because I was getting the important stuff done. Don't stress so much, just be open and honest 🙂

 

[ariax]

Its not harmful unless youre trying for MD/PHDl. Its not going to look like a meaningful experience however, and based on what you're saying it hasn't been so I wouldn't really worry about it

I recommend going to see her in person....but the email is fine.

Many people have research without the LOR from PIs. It's so taken for granted that sometimes people have bad relationships with PIs that on NIH post-doc forms, they don't ask for PI LORs, even from your PhD advisor!

But if you haven't been as diligent in the lab as you say you've been, could you be able to fully describe your research project, if asked at interviews?

I would try. It's just I can not list as a meaningful experience but I have been there since Jan 2015 (so I'll have 1.5 years by the time I apply) and have one poster and will have one publication (it's been sent out and to be honest Idk if it will be published by the time I apply but there's a good chance. I'm like 8th author though and she put me on there for editing which was nice of her and I'm just a horrible person ugh 🙁 ).

Thank you @Goro for the advice. I really appreciate it.

 

[ariax]

Does your school use pre-med committee letters? If so, some medical schools don't even take additional letters, so they wouldn't even know.

My school does do committee letters. What people do at my school is have the PI email the letter of rec to the premed committee office. Wouldn't that be expected if they weren't going to take additional letters?

 

[ndafife]

I would try. It's just I can not list as a meaningful experience but I have been there since Jan 2015 (so I'll have 1.5 years by the time I apply) and have one poster and will have one publication (it's been sent out and to be honestly Idk if it will be published by the time I apply but there's a good chance. I'm like 8th author though and she put me on there for editing which was nice of her and I'm just a horrible person ugh 🙁 ).

Thank you @Goro for the advice. I really appreciate it.

You can't say you've been there for 1.5 years when you've only been in like 5 times the last 3 months.

 

[ariax]

You can't say you've been there for 1.5 years when you've only been in like 5 times the last 3 months.

I actually went often from January to August (over the summer I was doing 30-40 hours a week). I started slacking this semester...

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I just cannot comprehend how 3 weeks goes by with you being aware someone would like to speak with you and you remain ghost. That's insane.

I agree with previous posters, it may be best that you bow out. I can't even say gracefully, because who knows what you may have messed up, or delayed in the lab by being constantly missing in action.

If you think you will have more time next semester/ in the future, it may be time better spent finding a clinical research opportunity, or perhaps in a different field such as psych, Soc. Sci., or whatever else you might find interest. Or, which seems more likely to me, you don't like research so do something else; volunteering (clinical/non-clincal).

 

[ariax]

I just cannot comprehend how 3 weeks goes by with you being aware someone would like to speak with you and you remain ghost. That's insane.

I agree with previous posters, it may be best that you bow out. I can't even say gracefully, because who knows what you may have messed up, or delayed in the lab by being constantly missing in action.

If you think you will have more time next semester/ in the future, it may be time better spent finding a clinical research opportunity, or perhaps in a different field such as psych, Soc. Sci., or whatever else you might find interest. Or, which seems more likely to me, you don't like research so do something else; volunteering (clinical/non-clincal).

I had midterms again and Thanksgiving was last week so yeah...again I know, it's kind of inexcusable. I'm kind of terrified to meet with her.

 

[RuggerMD]

I had midterms again and Thanksgiving was last week so yeah...again I know, it's kind of inexcusable. I'm kind of terrified to meet with her.

She's probably gonna be upset with you, yeah, but you have already beat yourself up about this for at least the last three weeks. She's not gonna say anything to you that you haven't told yourself. I think you're punishing yourself more than she ever could.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I had midterms again and Thanksgiving was last week so yeah...again I know, it's kind of inexcusable. I'm kind of terrified to meet with her.

I get it. Schedules get hectic. I sometimes have to go in my lab 30mins before an exam to make sure something is completed because someone is depending on me. It's stressful, but idk maybe it's me, but leaving things half done, someone being disappointed in me or a problem being attributed to me is far more stressful.

However, it's the communication part that leaves a bad taste in someone's mouth, more than the actual issue of being unavailable.

 

[Gingy]

The deeper issue here is one of assertiveness (or lack thereof). An e-mail is passive and inappropriate for this situation. Determine whether you can commit to the lab, go to her office, communicate honestly yet tactfully, and convey your desire to continue or forego this research.

 

[IlDestriero]

What is wrong with you?
Do you even want the job? If so, do it. Make sacrifices and come in and work. If not GTFO and make room for someone who will commit and do the work. It sounds like you're wasting a lot of lab time by not coming in and doing your share of the work. That's work someone else has to to or work not getting done. That's not OK.

 

[Glandzburg]

What is wrong with you?
Do you even want the job? If so, do it. Make sacrifices and come in and work. If not GTFO and make room for someone who will commit and do the work. It sounds like you're wasting a lot of lab time by not coming in and doing your share of the work. That's work someone else has to to or work not getting done. That's not OK.

The whole situation wreaks of immaturity. Op, this kind of thing is not ok for somebody who is going to apply to medical school soon.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I do like the idea of research. I actually enjoy reading papers and I realize the importance of it in medicine. I like drawing conclusions and data and finding trends. I just REALLY don't like doing experiments. It is incredibly draining to do experiment after experiment and if one little thing is messed up, you have to start over.

OP, you've gotten a lot of great advice on this thread. Obviously, it's up to you to decide whether to continue at this lab. But I honestly think you're underestimating the importance of showing medical schools who YOU are and what interests you. What are you going to say when an interviewer looks at your application and says, "Wow. You spent 1.5 years working in a lab. You must really love doing experiments!" ...

The time that you're spending right now worrying about talking to this professor could be spent exploring research opportunities that you DO enjoy. And perhaps if you enjoyed this work, you would have been more motivated to make time for it over the past 3 months--no matter how much schoolwork you had. There are sooo many types of research. I've worked in clinical research for 3 years and never once ran an experiment or set foot in a lab. I would really encourage you to move on and find something you can talk about enthusiastically in interviews.

 

[Lost in Translation]

How do grown people allow something like this to happen?

 

[ariax]

So after some contemplation I have decided to leave this experience off my application completely. I can't imagine having an experience this long without a PI LOR would be looked at positively. Additionally, I will probably try to find some type of research I do enjoy during my gap year.

I was intending on applying this coming June but it looks like that is not going to be happening.

I do realize I've messed up and realize this could have been avoided if I had been more responsible and were more straight forward from the beginning. I do have some time in the spring so I will probably just finish up what I had started after meeting with my PI as she was kind enough to let me into her lab and give me a project of my own and will leave the lab when I graduate.

Thank you everyone.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

I know I've been incredibly irresponsible. I acknowledge it. I am still considering emailing her to meet and see what she has to say. Do you think what I've said in the email is okay?

Also how harmful would it be to include this research experience on AMCAS but not have a PI LOR?

What 'experience' do you really have from showing up half a dozen times? Your application is NOT going to change because of this.
You screwed up. Move on. If you really wanted to learn something you should have figured that out 4 months ago