How to ask for a non-science LOR when both me and the professor would know it would be a sub-par letter?

[907914]

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There are several schools that I was really wanting to apply to that explicitly require a non-science faculty LOR. The only non-science class I have taken in the last 2 years is psychology 100. Class of 200...I did always ask questions and had a test average of like 106% but it would likely be a subpar letter.

While I am currently also in two GenEd classes, both are taught by professors who don’t particularly like straight white males, so it’s likely a no-go.

Can I simply email the psych prof “Would you be willing/able to write an LOR for medical school - provide details to remind them who I am and give context of my application” or should I just stick with only applying to schools that do not require the non-science faculty?

Edit: For context - my current non-science letters are from my former platoon sergeant (whom I also went through initial training with) and a physician whom I have shadowed, is my supervisor at work, and I was in the same reserves unit with (although he may not have talked about the military part).

 

[HomeSkool]

If the letter will be sub-par, don't ask for it. Find another faculty member who'll write you a strong one. You may need to take another non-science course if no past professors will go to bat for you.

While I am currently also in two GenEd classes, both are taught by professors who don’t particularly like straight white males, so it’s likely a no-go.

If they're bringing their bigotry into the classroom to such an extent that students are noting it and feel unable to ask for assistance with career advancement, that needs to be reported. See if your school has a way for you to do that anonymously.

 

[965978]

There are several schools that I was really wanting to apply to that explicitly require a non-science faculty LOR. The only non-science class I have taken in the last 2 years is psychology 100. Class of 200...I did always ask questions and had a test average of like 106% but it would likely be a subpar letter.

While I am currently also in two GenEd classes, both are taught by professors who don’t particularly like straight white males, so it’s likely a no-go.

Can I simply email the psych prof “Would you be willing/able to write an LOR for medical school - provide details to remind them who I am and give context of my application” or should I just stick with only applying to schools that do not require the non-science faculty?

Edit: For context - my current non-science letters are from my former platoon sergeant (whom I also went through initial training with) and a physician whom I have shadowed, is my supervisor at work, and I was in the same reserves unit with (although he may not have talked about the military part).

Why do you think your current professors don’t like straight white guys?

 

[LizzyM]

Going up the chain of command, can you get a letter from a commanding officer rather than someone who was once your peer? I do agree that non-trads are cut some slack with regard to non-science letters and I've seen very well written letters from commanding officers.

 

[907914]

Going up the chain of command, can you get a letter from a commanding officer rather than someone who was once your peer? I do agree that non-trads are cut some slack with regard to non-science letters and I've seen very well written letters from commanding officers.

Unfortunately, the only contact information I have for those from my unit is my former platoon sergeant. There has also been a change of command ceremony since my departure and I believe my former commander(s) have left the military.

Why do you think your current professors don’t like straight white guys?

A man knows.

 

[907914]

Would the pysch letter be actually subpar or rather would it be along the lines of "this student got an A and came to office hours?" The latter is an average letter: bland and uninspiring is the majority of letters to adcoms

Additionally, many, if not most, schools have alternative letter options for nontrads. As a former military, getting your platoon sgt and a physician you work for, both of which can be seen as immediate employment supervisors, would be acceptable at most schools in lieu of non-science.

My opinion, get the psych letter, bland and all, and move on to more important items. And ask the psych prof, if they would write a "strong letter in support of your application to medical school"

It would be bland, I guess.

I suppose when 5 other 5 letters are 1) Ochem prof for a year where I was stellar AND our kids are in the same daycare class so I know him outside of class as well 2) My biotech advisor, I ta’d for, and I performed stellar in his genetics and molecular 3) My PI and premed advisor for a year and a half and then the other two letters are also unique/great/set me apart, I just didn’t want one letter that was ‘meh’ because the rest are fantastic. Were I to get the psych LOR, all of my letters would contribute additional information beyond the primary and secondary apps whereas the psych one will just be bland. Is that ok?

 

[907914]

Going up the chain of command, can you get a letter from a commanding officer rather than someone who was once your peer? I do agree that non-trads are cut some slack with regard to non-science letters and I've seen very well written letters from commanding officers.

@LizzyM would the current letter as it stands be disregarded, not weighed as heavily, or...?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Just to nip this in the bud, if this thread veers off into political discussion or anything other than getting LORs, I will close it.

 

[907914]

Need to get the psych letter and put her AMCAS Just for a couple of schools that may actually require it

For those schools that do require it but accept additional letters, do you think either of those two other non-traditional letters would contribute? Or also for those schools that do not require the non-science faculty, would either of the letter packet I currently have look good?

Also, thank y'all for your feedback. I stopped by his office to ask in person but no office hours are posted. Email has been sent asking.

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM would the current letter as it stands be disregarded, not weighed as heavily, or...?

These letters tend to be straightforward: I know him from xyz. He was [positive attribute]. He earned a grade of [grade]. I didn't get to know him well. He's in the top x% of students I've taught based on his grade.

This is not lukewarm or mediocre. It is just the fact that we've come to expect from intro courses at big universities. Compared with a humanities seminar at a liberal arts school where you might have 12 students in the class and everyone speaks in class and everyone writes 750 words per week, the faculty member will not get to know and will not have a letter full of details, but adcoms know the realities of academia and will not penalize you for having such a letter.

 

[907914]

These letters tend to be straightforward: I know him from xyz. He was [positive attribute]. He earned a grade of [grade]. I didn't get to know him well. He's in the top x% of students I've taught based on his grade.

This is not lukewarm or mediocre. It is just the fact that we've come to expect from intro courses at big universities. Compared with a humanities seminar at a liberal arts school where you might have 12 students in the class and everyone speaks in class and everyone writes 750 words per week, the faculty member will not get to know and will not have a letter full of details, but adcoms know the realities of academia and will not penalize you for having such a letter.

Thank you for the feedback in regards to the Psych Letter. I have reached out to him. It is good, i suppose, to know that it is a common thing and lessens my worry.

My question was directed at the former-peer military letter. As a supplemental letter, do you think that one would contribute positively? I don't know the content of it, but I know it is like 4 pages long...

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you for the feedback in regards to the Psych Letter. I have reached out to him. It is good, i suppose, to know that it is a common thing and lessens my worry.

My question was directed at the former-peer military letter. As a supplemental letter, do you think that one would contribute positively? I don't know the content of it, but I know it is like 4 pages long...

Four pages is far, far too long. By the length alone it would be considered a negative. It is longer than most committee letters. It would not be a good letter to include, particularly if you started out as peers.

 

[907914]

Thank you for the feedback. I guess we were just in the military for about six years together and I think he went through and kind of summarized his entire observations of my career progression so it ended up being fairly long. Do you think that a letter in that genre (military leadership) Would be appropriate and contribute were it in a more traditional length and format?

If so, should I reach out to him and ask for a more concise letter focusing on attributes noticed in the two years he was my platoon sergeant (nixing the peer stuff) as opposed to specific instances/summarization?

Four pages is far, far too long. By the length alone it would be considered a negative. It is longer than most committee letters. It would not be a good letter to include, particularly if you started out as peers.

 

[907914]

Four pages is far, far too long. By the length alone it would be considered a negative. It is longer than most committee letters. It would not be a good letter to include, particularly if you started out as peers.

Or would just sticking with Academic LORs be where I should stay? I know a military LOR would likely be the best place to demonstrate the leadership/teamwork aspects outside of my own descriptions in W/A...but is the W/A section sufficient?

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you for the feedback. I guess we were just in the military for about six years together and I think he went through and kind of summarized his entire observations of my career progression so it ended up being fairly long. Do you think that a letter in that genre (military leadership) Would be appropriate and contribute were it in a more traditional length and format?

If so, should I reach out to him and ask for a more concise letter focusing on attributes noticed in the two years he was my platoon sergeant (nixing the peer stuff) as opposed to specific instances/summarization?

The letter should detail how long he has known you and the circumstances under which you met (e.g. someone you shadowed who has known you since you were six years old and moved into his neighborhood is different than you first met after cold calling for a shadowing opportunity).

You have provided the "experiences" section so the career progression should be evident to someone who reads your application. What the letter can/should provide is an anecdote or two and an assessment of your potential success as a student or as a doctor.

I have found military letters to be somewhat useful/interesting. Sometimes they are most interesting because they are novel (we don't get many for obvious reasons).

 

[907914]

The letter should detail how long he has known you and the circumstances under which you met (e.g. someone you shadowed who has known you since you were six years old and moved into his neighborhood is different than you first met after cold calling for a shadowing opportunity).

You have provided the "experiences" section so the career progression should be evident to someone who reads your application. What the letter can/should provide is an anecdote or two and an assessment of your potential success as a student or as a doctor.

I have found military letters to be somewhat useful/interesting. Sometimes they are most interesting because they are novel (we don't get many for obvious reasons).

Thank you much. I will both attempt for the psych LOR and adjust focus with military LOR.

 

[907914]

Just to nip this in the bud, if this thread veers off into political discussion or anything other than getting LORs, I will close it.

Just saw this reply. Nah, Clam and I have those talks over PM lol