How to be an exceptional med student?

[Grey1993]

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Hi again.. So I guess no explanation is needed.. The question simply is: How to be an exceptional med student and be distinguished from the other med students? Does anybody have any special method of studying? What is it that makes you or anybody you know successful or exceptional? Everybody feel free to pitch in. Any advice or experience would be very appreciated.

 

[username456789]

Be reasonably smart and work harder than everyone else around you. Also, don't be a dick.

 

[GoPelicans]

Be able to memorize innate stuff very quickly. Don't need a lot of sleep or free time. Probably take adderall.

 

[Mad Jack]

Be able to memorize innate stuff very quickly. Don't need a lot of sleep or free time. Probably take adderall.

Adderall is for the weak.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Be reasonably smart and work harder than everyone else around you. Also, don't be a dick.

This is honestly the best advice anyone can give you.

 

[DermViser]

Be reasonably smart and work harder than everyone else around you. Also, don't be a dick.

Or if you're going to be a dick, hide it well.

 

[cbrons]

Love what you do, don't let the political BS wear you down, and have an optimistic explanatory style. If you have that, you will naturally work harder and longer than your peers without burning yourself out.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[ChEMD]

Don't blow off the clinical stuff you do in preclinical years. At the time it seems like extra stuff that is just taking time away from you memorizing the Krebs cycle, but going into 3rd year knowing how to talk to patients, do a reasonable h&p, and present to an attending is arguably more important than anything you learn in your first two years.

 

[operaman]

Work harder and work smarter than everyone else. Take everything seriously -- we've been training doctors this way for decades and while it's not perfect, it seems to get the job done and I certainly don't have a better way.

Beyond that, keep your eye on the prize. An attending mentor of mine put it this way: From now on, your life and career will be a mixture of clinical practice, reading, study, exams, BS assignments, paperwork, family time, relaxation, etc. The only difference between you as an M1, an M3, a PGY-2, a fellow, and him as an attending is the ratio of each part to the other parts, plus he has a nicer car and a bigger house. Otherwise, it's all one big continuum. Keep that in mind and let it inform your mindset and your approach to the work.

 

[mvenus929]

Be enthusiastic. This means volunteering to see new patients; following up on your patient's labs, imaging studies, etc (contained within the plan); checking in with the patients during the day; and keeping up with reading about your patients. It will make residents more likely to want to teach you, especially if you free up some time for them.

 

[chronicidal]

Adderall is for the weak.

Are you saying people who have ADHD are the weak?

 

[KinasePro]

Be reasonably smart and work harder than everyone else around you. Also, don't be a dick.

Great advice.

Also, on clinical rotations try to never let them see you sweat. Never let your teams know that you're tired, bored, or stressed.

Always strive to do the job right above you. In M3, try to perform like an M4/intern. In M4, try to perform like an intern/PGY-2 on sub-i's. Just last week, I had a program director on my surgical subspecialty sub-i's tell me that he's looking for med students that can mimic the PGY-2's, bc that's when the chit truly hits the fan.

 

[sobored]

Great advice.

Also, on clinical rotations try to never let them see you sweat. Never let your teams know that you're tired, bored, or stressed.

Always strive to do the job right above you. In M3, try to perform like an M4/intern. In M4, try to perform like an intern/PGY-2 on sub-i's. Just last week, I had a program director on my surgical subspecialty sub-i's tell me that he's looking for med students that can mimic the PGY-2's, bc that's when the chit truly hits the fan.

That seems ridiculous. You are where you are in your training - trying to act like a PGY-2 as an MS4 is just overzealous and a recipe for disaster in terms of competent patient care. But hey, I'm not a PD so whatever.

 

[sobored]

Are you saying people who have ADHD are the weak?

You know what he means, stop trying to be smart about it.

 

[chronicidal]

You know what he means, stop trying to be smart about it.

He's saying he's better than people who take Adderall. You think he's distinguishing those who happen to carry a psychiatric diagnosis versus those who haven't been labeled?

 

[Awared]

He's saying he's better than people who take Adderall. You think he's distinguishing those who happen to carry a psychiatric diagnosis versus those who haven't been labeled?

Yes. I think it is pretty clear that he is referencing the abuse of adderall.

 

[chronicidal]

Yes. I think it is pretty clear that he is referencing the abuse of adderall.

I'm making the point that the line between use and abuse is arbitrary and vague, so you can't call out one group without talking down to the other.

 

[PL198]

I'm making the point that the line between use and abuse is arbitrary and vague, so you can't call out one group without talking down to the other.

No, not really. 1 group gets a script for it, 1 does not. That's not arbitrary and it's certainly not vague.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm making the point that the line between use and abuse is arbitrary and vague, so you can't call out one group without talking down to the other.

For those that can read between the lines, it's pretty obvious I'm talking about Adderall abuse among those without ADHD.. As a medical student, I can assure you that Adderall abuse by those that faked their way into an ADHD diagnosis is not an unheard of instance among my peers.

 

[KinasePro]

That seems ridiculous. You are where you are in your training - trying to act like a PGY-2 as an MS4 is just overzealous and a recipe for disaster in terms of competent patient care. But hey, I'm not a PD so whatever.

OP want's to be exceptional, so he should be able to present a handful of patients at sign-out, see new consults in the ED, write operative notes, dictate clinic notes, etc... How would this be a "disaster"? PGY-2's are supervised, and so are you as an M4. There's nothing wrong with acting like an M4, but you probably shouldn't expect to be memorable if that's your philosophy.

 

[PL198]

OP want's to be exceptional, so he should be able to present a handful of patients at sign-out, see new consults in the ED, write operative notes, dictate clinic notes, etc... How would this be a "disaster"? PGY-2's are supervised, and so are you as an M4. There's nothing wrong with acting like an M4, but you probably shouldn't expect to be memorable if that's your philosophy.

I'm sure the disconnect is with the definition of exceptional. You know, like you're using the word in it's actual meaning, ie being atypical(with an implied good connotation), vs other people who are on the whole "everyone gets a trophy" bandwagon, and being an exceptional 3rd or 4th year in that opinion would just be being knowledge, quiet and respectful(even though this is the average to above avg student).

Newsflash, being exceptional in anything will probably require a different execution and skills than just being good or above average. From what I've seen in clinical settings, being a medical student is about faking it till you make it. If you appear outwardly confident, your supervisor will let you do **** tons more than you ever thought they would, so if you're confident about doing the things Kinase recommends, I'm sure you'd get the chance to do them. You don't have to be overzealous and annoying to get these opportunities and from my experience, these types of students aren't usually the ones ready for them anyway.

I always laugh when people ask how to be exceptional in something and then either that person or someone else is like " wow that's so much work, or wow that's silly," Um... Did you think being exceptional was going to be easy? If it was, everyone would do it and thus being exceptional would require new atypical actions.

 

[DermViser]

No, not really. 1 group gets a script for it, 1 does not. That's not arbitrary and it's certainly not vague.

You think people who don't have ADHD can't get scripts for Adderall?

 

[DermViser]

For those that can read between the lines, it's pretty obvious I'm talking about Adderall abuse among those without ADHD.. As a medical student, I can assure you that Adderall abuse by those that faked their way into an ADHD diagnosis is not an unheard of instance among my peers.

That's not what your original post "Adderall is for the weak" implied. Sorry.

 

[DermViser]

Yes. I think it is pretty clear that he is referencing the abuse of adderall.

He said, "Adderall is for the weak." -- no reference to abuse. @chronicidal was correct in that no distinction was made.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's not what your original post "Adderall is for the weak" implied. Sorry.

I said that in reference to the prior comment of "Probably take adderall" as an answer to how to be a good med student, i.e. a person clearly stating abusing adderall is a likely component of being a top med student. GoPelicans clearly wasn't talking about ADHD sufferers suddenly becoming intellectual superheroes that dominate the tops of classes once they pop some pills, nor was I talking about people taking pills for a diagnosed medical condition since my post was in response to his comment.

 

[PL198]

You think people who don't have ADHD can't get scripts for Adderall?

I have no way of knowing that someone is faking, so why would I ever worry about that?

 

[DermViser]

I have no way of knowing that someone is faking, so why would I ever worry about that?

You said - "1 group gets a script for it, 1 does not." --- that's not true.

 

[cookiemonsters]

..

 

[PL198]

SDNers, how many people in your class do you think take adderall or some variation? At my school there is a robust network to get it pretty easily. I don't participate for personal reasons, but my roommate takes it (found it on his desk looking for something else).

no clue and why would I care? if someone takes something to help them accomplish a task, it just makes them weaker in the long run in my opinion, if they didn't already have a problem that the drug is treating. couple that with the fact that there is decent evidence that things like adderall don't even help people without physiological problems and that people only feel like they help, makes it a moot point.

 

[DermViser]

SDNers, how many people in your class do you think take adderall or some variation? At my school there is a robust network to get it pretty easily. I don't participate for personal reasons, but my roommate takes it (found it on his desk looking for something else).

Did he think it helped him cognitively? Not surprising even the military uses cognitive performance enhancing drugs.

 

[chronicidal]

couple that with the fact that there is decent evidence that things like adderall don't even help people without physiological problems and that people only feel like they help, makes it a moot point.

This is a reasonable point and should be considered further. Here is the study you're probably you're thinking of: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~mfarah/pdfs/MAS enhancement.pdf

Among the important open questions are: How helpful might a small enhancement effect be over time? Might the effects be larger when measured under real-world conditions (e.g., with distractions in the environment or for longer and hence more tedious tasks than the typical memory or executive function experiment) or in a different state (e.g., after sleep deprivation)? Does MAS exert a larger effect on other processes, such as motivation to work, which are not captured by laboratory studies of memory and executive function but which nevertheless impact academic and other cognitive work? Or are users primarily attracted to this drug because of the illusory perception of enhancement our participants reported?

 

[DermViser]

no clue and why would I care? if someone takes something to help them accomplish a task, it just makes them weaker in the long run in my opinion, if they didn't already have a problem that the drug is treating. couple that with the fact that there is decent evidence that things like adderall don't even help people without physiological problems and that people only feel like they help, makes it a moot point.

Realize that ADHD is not an organic disorder that has an associated lesion. The real question is whether Adderall helps with cognitive retention of information in one's memory. If it does, let's face it - esp. on professor basic science exams - it would be helpful.

 

[PL198]

Do you know that about ADHD for a fact ? I honestly don't know the path of it, but I'd assume there's a physiological problem somewhere to cause it.

 

[DermViser]

Do you know that about ADHD for a fact ? I honestly don't know the path of it, but I'd assume there's a physiological problem somewhere to cause it.

As of right now, there is no known organic cerebral lesion that causes ADHD. Sure there might be a neurotransmitter dysfunction like in all brain diseases - anxiety, depression, bipolar, that also don't have organic lesions that you would be able to see on autopsy vs. say multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, etc.

 

[PL198]

As of right now, there is no known organic cerebral lesion that causes ADHD. Sure there might be a neurotransmitter dysfunction like in all brain diseases - anxiety, depression, bipolar, that also don't have organic lesions that you would be able to see on autopsy vs. say multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, etc.

Wouldn't there still be a histological lesion though ?

 

[DermViser]

Wouldn't there still be a histological lesion though ?

Autopsies are both gross and histological. For example - Alzheimer's has neurofibrillary tangles, MS has demyelinated plaques, etc. ADHD doesn't have that.

 

[Kahreek]

SDNers, how many people in your class do you think take adderall or some variation? At my school there is a robust network to get it pretty easily. I don't participate for personal reasons, but my roommate takes it (found it on his desk looking for something else).

i know various colleagues that take Adderall or Ritalin with the sole purpose of studying more and harder.
Everyone who thinks that it just makes them weaker, probably yes in the long run, in the meantime they get all the positions/residency/grades they want, it is just like athletic doping.
You wont be a great athlete taking epo alone, but sure it will give you the edge.

 

[DermViser]

i know various colleagues that take Adderall or Ritalin with the sole purpose of studying more and harder.
Everyone who thinks that it just makes them weaker, probably yes in the long run, in the meantime they get all the positions/residency/grades they want, it is just like athletic doping.
You wont be a great athlete taking epo alone, but sure it will give you the edge.

Did their exam grades get better?

 

[Kahreek]

Did their exam grades get better?

I don't know if they got better, because I don't know exactly when they started, but they sure are solid performers.

 

[DermViser]

I don't know if they got better, because I don't know exactly when they started, but they sure are solid performers.

So then it did work for them. Any side effects?

 

[Kahreek]

So then it did work for them. Any side effects?

not anything that I know of.

 

[Xyl_Gal_Gal]

1. "If you do the same amount of work as everyone else, you deserve to be in the same boat as everyone else. And that boat will sink because none of you know anything about boats."

2. Make use of the plethora of resources we have to our disposal today that weren't available just 5-10 years ago e.g. Conrad Fischer, Lionel Raymond, Sattar, najeeb, sketchy micro, picmonic, etc.

 

[chronicidal]

2. Make use of the plethora of resources we have to our disposal today that weren't available just 5-10 years ago e.g. Conrad Fischer, Lionel Raymond, Sattar, najeeb, sketchy micro, picmonic, etc.

I don't know half the things on your list, but let's clarify that Anki was unheard of among med students 5 years ago and should be on that list.

 

[colbgw02]

Hi again.. So I guess no explanation is needed.. The question simply is: How to be an exceptional med student and be distinguished from the other med students? Does anybody have any special method of studying? What is it that makes you or anybody you know successful or exceptional? Everybody feel free to pitch in. Any advice or experience would be very appreciated.

It's easy to do just. Just follow these steps.

1. cut a hole in box...

 

[amvet70]

Hi again.. So I guess no explanation is needed.. The question simply is: How to be an exceptional med student and be distinguished from the other med students? Does anybody have any special method of studying? What is it that makes you or anybody you know successful or exceptional? Everybody feel free to pitch in. Any advice or experience would be very appreciated.

Show up every day. Stay on top of material. If you got by in college cramming, this approach will not serve you well in med school. This does not mean locking yourself into your apartment and studying 24/7 for 4 years although out of fear of getting behind you might initially take this approach. As time goes on you’ll learn when you need to intensify your efforts and when you can go out with friends and have fun/get drunk. Staying on top of material, especially as MS2, will also go a long way to help you in your Step 1 prep. Rock Step 1. As a third year, and perhaps MS4 AIs, come in prepared and make nice with attendings, fellows, and residents as their evals of you will be read by residency PDs in either LORs or MSPE. Realize your real med training begins in residency and no matter how exceptional you think you are upon graduation, you’ll probably discover early in residency how unexceptional you actually are.

 

[SlowCodeToChina]

You think people who don't have ADHD can't get scripts for Adderall?

He only mentioned two groups. Nowhere did he state that there were ONLY two groups.

That's not what your original post "Adderall is for the weak" implied. Sorry.

Yes it did. It was a subtle point that only people who could read between the lines could catch.

 

[DermViser]

He only mentioned two groups. Nowhere did he state that there were ONLY two groups.

Yes it did. It was a subtle point that only people who could read between the lines could catch.

Um, yeah, actually he did: "No, not really. 1 group gets a script for it, 1 does not. That's not arbitrary and it's certainly not vague."

 

[SlowCodeToChina]

Um, yeah, actually he did: "No, not really. 1 group gets a script for it, 1 does not. That's not arbitrary and it's certainly not vague."

That doesn't imply two groups at all. He could have very easily talked about a third group in a sentence following the one he chose to include.

Dermy, sometimes you gotta learn to stop resuscitation and just call time of death. It's okay to be wrong. We're all here to learn from one another.

 

[DermViser]

That doesn't imply two groups at all. He could have very easily talked about a third group in a sentence following the one he chose to include.

Dermy, sometimes you gotta learn to stop resuscitation and just call time of death. It's okay to be wrong. We're all here to learn from one another.

Yeah he mentions 2 groups - says it's not arbitrary or vague and apparently that means that he wasn't just talking about 2 groups.. Good to know.

 

[SlowCodeToChina]

Yeah he mentions 2 groups - says it's not arbitrary or vague and apparently that means that he wasn't just talking about 2 groups.. Good to know.

It's neither arbitrary nor vague to exclude a group whose existence is intuitively obvious but irrelevant to the point being made. By "one group does not", he was clearly referring to the group of individuals who take this drug who aren't prescribed it. He was not talking about the group of individuals who need the drug because they have ADHD and aren't prescribed it.