So here I am, finishing up my third year, highly considering psychiatry above any other field... and my parents have informed me of how disappointed they are at this choice. I can't even bring up the topic without them sighing and walking away from me, in an attempt to not speak about something so distressing to them--that their child, who they were so excited about becoming a doctor--would choose psychiatry for a career. Their feelings and opinions have always mattered so greatly to me, I'm just not sure how I can live with this decision if this is how they react to it. At the same time, I do not like any other field in medicine... Has anyone else experienced the guilt trip laid on by parents for picking a career which they do not approve of?
How to deal with parent's disappointment?
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You should make an appointment for them with a psychiatrist.
All kidding aside, stigma is stigma, eventually they will deal with it. Can you tell us about your cultural background as well as your parents cultural background...leave out whatever you feel would be TMI.
Hey...I know. Tell them about sleep medicine! Its like being a 'real' doctor.
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Start small and tell them you will be choosing your own clothes from now on and build up from there....
I wonder how they would react if ....gulp.....you developed schizophrenia...
Honestly I feel sorry for you....they will get over it....
I wonder how they would react if ....gulp.....you developed schizophrenia...
Honestly I feel sorry for you....they will get over it....
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I forget who it was that said this, but something to the effect of telling them that when it's 2:30 am and you're in a call room eating a cold pizza, they won't be there. You could also turn it around on them (what do your parents do? If it's anything short of "X medical specialty that they want you to go into" be sure and tell them how disappointing it was growing up being the child of a butcher, contractor, businessman, etc.)
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All joking aside. Be an adult, don't play games with your parents but don't allow them to play games with you either. What would you think if a patient gave you a big dramatic sigh and walked away after hearing something they didn't like.
We all have these traits...I am not saying your parents have BPD. The problem is that the relationship we have with others is strongly influenced by our own interaction with them. Sort of the "it takes 2 hands to clap" thing.
So maybe ask yourself. What are you doing that allows this to happen at such a late stage in life?
We all have these traits...I am not saying your parents have BPD. The problem is that the relationship we have with others is strongly influenced by our own interaction with them. Sort of the "it takes 2 hands to clap" thing.
So maybe ask yourself. What are you doing that allows this to happen at such a late stage in life?
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That is unfortunate that they won't engage you in conversation about your choice. When it came time to name my child, my wife and I made it a point not to tell any of our family members until we were 100% certain with the name. That way if anyone protested it would be their problem, not ours, we were certain. Choosing your career is much more challenging and their counsel might be important to you, but if you feel certain in your choice it will make your argument to them much more persuasive.
I think people not understanding the choice of Psychiatry comes with the territory. If it is too much of a problem for you, you will ultimately decide to pursue something else. My advice is to just be strong in your decision and they will come around.
I think people not understanding the choice of Psychiatry comes with the territory. If it is too much of a problem for you, you will ultimately decide to pursue something else. My advice is to just be strong in your decision and they will come around.
To be fair to your parents, you really are selling yourself short
. Why not enter a real specialty like pathology or public health.
Do your parents give a reason(s) why they would be disappointed in psychiatry?
. Why not enter a real specialty like pathology or public health. Do your parents give a reason(s) why they would be disappointed in psychiatry?
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Your family may be expressing disapproval to try to get you to do something else. They've looked forward to bragging about you, and it's harder to do that when they know so little about what you would be doing. They have fantasies about you being someone respected, and they don't know how to respect a psychiatrist. That doesn't mean they can't learn. It also doesn't mean they will.
Interestingly, my family was disappointed when I said I wanted to be a psychiatrist, but as soon as I wanted to be a child psychiatrist, suddenly everything changed. My mother had gone back to school to be an elementary school teacher about the same time I went to college. And all the sudden she actually could imagine the kind of patient I would be seeing, and it's like the stigma just melted. In the end, they just want to be proud of me, so they've bent their understanding to the world. Since I'm doing it, and they're proud of me, then psychiatry must be something to be proud of. Not every parent does that, but I think a lot eventually do.
It's common for parents to express disapproval hoping you'll make a different decision. If they continue to express disapproval after you've made the decision, they're either bad parents or they're Asian parents. (I'll leave the Venn diagram to your own discretion.)
Interestingly, my family was disappointed when I said I wanted to be a psychiatrist, but as soon as I wanted to be a child psychiatrist, suddenly everything changed. My mother had gone back to school to be an elementary school teacher about the same time I went to college. And all the sudden she actually could imagine the kind of patient I would be seeing, and it's like the stigma just melted. In the end, they just want to be proud of me, so they've bent their understanding to the world. Since I'm doing it, and they're proud of me, then psychiatry must be something to be proud of. Not every parent does that, but I think a lot eventually do.
It's common for parents to express disapproval hoping you'll make a different decision. If they continue to express disapproval after you've made the decision, they're either bad parents or they're Asian parents. (I'll leave the Venn diagram to your own discretion.)
Our cultural background is Middle-Eastern. In my family, a real doctor is a cardiologist, a radiologist, otolaryngologist, or dermatologist (my cousin matched Derm in 2010... didn't help my argument one bit). When I got an average board score, and my parents realized the above were not going to happen, they started with neurologist, physiatrist, pediatrician, endocrinologist. I tried the "you won't be there to take my calls with me" argument which didn't go far. My dad is in the medical field himself but he is not a physician. He says he regrets his decision not to go to medical school and just wants the best for me. There is no clear cut reason why they do not like psychiatry, I am left to believe it is because of the stigma and because how would they explain to their friends that their child is a psychiatrist, when they could just as simply tell them something better? Manicsleep, I am not sure why I am letting such an influence at this stage in my life when actually all of my life I've done only what I wanted-- I would still choose to do what I want, I am just afraid of being told "told you so" if things don't work out for me the way I'd like. What if in 10 years I see they were right? I really have considered other fields, in light of this issue with them... I literally cannot see myself in anything else, except maybe pediatrics. But I really don't want to struggle financially while seeing 40+ patients a day, so that's out. A part of me tells me they will come around, but another part thinks they never will, and that hurts. I don't know how to convince them that this is a good field
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At your next extended family gathering, engage your cousin in a spirited discussion of Morgellon's syndrome. When they hear how important psychiatrists are to these "real doctors" they may see it differently.
Also, read lots on current biological theories of mental illness, talk neuroscience with them, and above all BE HAPPY.
Also, read lots on current biological theories of mental illness, talk neuroscience with them, and above all BE HAPPY.
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classic. Love it.Maybe its time to grow above it and rethink your sense of guilt. Their opinions are theirs...its your life and career and happiness and fulfillment. I just see it simple as that.
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I not analyzing you (just your words ) but looks like you have a serious conflict which your parents are picking apart. Sounds like your family thinks the most competetive fellowships are the best based on your list. There is really no other thread that ties all those together.
BTW, Cardiology has very little to do with USMLE. Its busting your butt in intern year/early PGY2, research etc. If you want an IM fellowship, its not impossible. Do psychiatry because you want to do psychiatry. There is no right choice that is the one true choice. Its not red pill/blue pill in real life. Do what you want but don't regret your decision because you made the wrong decision out of fear (call severity etc).
Oh and BTW, most psychiatry PGY1s are not that much easier and sometimes harder than IM PGY1 years. Mine was a little harder.
) but looks like you have a serious conflict which your parents are picking apart. Sounds like your family thinks the most competetive fellowships are the best based on your list. There is really no other thread that ties all those together. BTW, Cardiology has very little to do with USMLE. Its busting your butt in intern year/early PGY2, research etc. If you want an IM fellowship, its not impossible. Do psychiatry because you want to do psychiatry. There is no right choice that is the one true choice. Its not red pill/blue pill in real life. Do what you want but don't regret your decision because you made the wrong decision out of fear (call severity etc).
Oh and BTW, most psychiatry PGY1s are not that much easier and sometimes harder than IM PGY1 years. Mine was a little harder.
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Since when did kids start caring what their parents think?
You can tell them that hospitalizing a suicidal or homicidal patient is the most definitive life-saving treatment than any doctor can provide. You can also tell them that, as a psychiatrist, you will actually have time to raise a family. Heck, you could even get married during residency (if that's something you're aiming to do). Middle-Eastern parents, from what I gather, tend not to argue with choices that promote family life.
Strangeglove, you would think that they would promote family life but no such thing! They would have me become a neurosurgeon just as easily. Manic, I never meant that there is no call in psych--just it would be more bearable in a field you like vs one you don't. On my rotations, it was difficult to get out of bed some mornings on my obgyn, surgery, and internal medicine rotations. But on psych I was always looking forward to going back and hearing what stories my schizophrenic patients had for me. Just things like that.
I don't really know what my problem is right now, I am afraid that Im making the wrong decision and they are in fact right, and I'm afraid of disappointing them.
It's nice to see psychiatrists who love their jobs. I hope I'm giving the same advice 20 years from now
I don't really know what my problem is right now, I am afraid that Im making the wrong decision and they are in fact right, and I'm afraid of disappointing them.
It's nice to see psychiatrists who love their jobs. I hope I'm giving the same advice 20 years from now
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My honest guess is that they will be disappointed if you go into psychiatry. A lot of the other fields you listed are considered to be higher prestige and they might think you are selling yourself short because you haven't been performing at a 'derm' level so far. If you go into Psychiatry and end up living a happy and productive life, though, I bet they will end up happy for you (even if they would rather tell their friends you are a cardiologist). I have had my share of family members asking why I have decided not to be a real doctor as well. It comes with the territory, but just imagine whether you would rather be doing an intense cardiology rotation for the next three months or an intense psych rotation for the next three months and I think you will have the best approximation of the right answer for you.
As for questioning whether you will enjoy psych or any other specialty, I don't think any of us know for sure. My guess is things probably work out okay with almost any path as long as you don't actively dislike it.
As for questioning whether you will enjoy psych or any other specialty, I don't think any of us know for sure. My guess is things probably work out okay with almost any path as long as you don't actively dislike it.
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^hey man, follow your heart. I KNOW that sounds gay, but it's true. Consider yourself lucky that you're not on the (internal) fence with varied specialties, or that you found nothing you like, and more than anything, consider yourself blessed that you've found something you actually enjoy. So like I said, follow your heart, and the rest will work itself out.
PS: not to be morbid, but your "elders" will soon be on the back-burner in your life and will then die. It's true. Presumably you'll soon have a family of your own, and then you'll undoubtedly realize with veracity that YOUR life is YOUR OWN. All the chatter from the outside is merely that, chatter. Even when it's from parents and those that love you. You're the one who wakes up to that alarm clock every moring, and no one else (except for the person lying next to you).
And then one day you get to be the old guy that tells your kid he's a ***** for trying to pursue his dream of being crew chief for Cirque du Solei. Life is a circle.
You'll be fine.
PS: not to be morbid, but your "elders" will soon be on the back-burner in your life and will then die. It's true. Presumably you'll soon have a family of your own, and then you'll undoubtedly realize with veracity that YOUR life is YOUR OWN. All the chatter from the outside is merely that, chatter. Even when it's from parents and those that love you. You're the one who wakes up to that alarm clock every moring, and no one else (except for the person lying next to you).
And then one day you get to be the old guy that tells your kid he's a ***** for trying to pursue his dream of being crew chief for Cirque du Solei. Life is a circle.
You'll be fine.
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you could always do med-psych or family-psych
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About 30 minutes after I wrote this, I was finishing an admit note from the morning--23 y/o Hispanic male, floridly psychotic as all get out (technical terms, there...). Had decided to get an MRI...yeah, low yield, but hey, first break...kid deserves it. Guess what? Where his L temporal lobe is supposed to be, there's nothing but a big blob of fluid, and it's even displacing part of his caudate... Even got the radiologist's attention today--"you know, we just don't usually see much on these psychosis admission scans..."
See mom, I AM a real doctor!
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I can think of at least three specific times in my life that following my gut meant disagreeing with and turning my back on the very well-intentioned advice of a mentor (and authority figure) I deeply respected. It was not easy, and to be honest, there were aftershocks of residual doubt that did not immediately resolve, and which often came back to haunt me when the going got tough on my chosen path. Nevertheless--all were the correct decision.
I will highlight one of the three for you--since you mention the getting out of bed thing. I was doing research in residency. I'd invested a lot of time in that path. I was in a very well-run, top of the line lab with a mentor who was (and still is) going places. But halfway in, I realized I loved getting up and getting into the office on clinic days. Lab days...not so much. A few months of that pattern and I finally got smart enough to figure it out.
Good luck.
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This is something I considered myself, but if you look at the numbers (http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/42/5/377.pdf) most dual boarded doctors end up just doing psychiatry. It does offer some advantages but in the end I think Psychiatry residency prepares you well enough for the practice of Psychiatry and you can easily pack your schedule full of psych patients and then start turning them away without seeing any other type. So I guess it boils down to only do this option if you truly love internal medicine and want to dedicate a lot of time to it, not so that you can make others happy or be a 'real doctor.'
Disclaimer though, I am a medical student and if michaelrack is recommending it there could very well be an advantage I am overlooking.
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That sucks. There's no easy, or even very good, way of getting around it. My parents, conversely, are happy with my choice to be a psychiatrist because they have internalized the stigma against psychiatry and are more comfortable with me being a psychiatrist than a "real" doctor (of which there are none in my family, as everyone is in law). They see it as me choosing something easier than being a "real" doctor and encourage this because they think it will make me happier and I'll be better at it. Rather insulting, also frustrating. Just letting you know that you aren't alone in parents having strong opinions on specialty choices.
Everyone has conflict with their parents over major life choices at some point or another. Just keep in mind that this is your life, your career, and what you are going to be doing every day -- you need to love it, you need to believe in it, you need to want to do it, you need to be proud of yourself. I have found myself responding to my own parents' encouragement with rebellion, considering neurology and family medicine just to show them that yes I can be a "real" doctor as they define it . . . but in the end, it is just not worth making a wrong choice to impress your parents.
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I have a cousin with Morgellon's syndrome (and chronic lyme disease and non-epileptic seizures). I stayed with her while doing a psychosomatic away rotation. It was an unintentionally ironic situation. Believe me, engaging one's cousin in a spirited discussion on Morgellon's syndrome is way overrated.
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For better AND occasionally worse, your parents know you very well. So the reason you feel doubt may be because they know what buttons to push. If their reason for you not doing this is social status...well, you have to live your own life. Not sure how important that is to you so you just have to figure that one out. Cultural issues are cultural issues but even those have to be made by you as an adult and on your own (although you can give however amount of importance to whatever you deem important in your own life).
Regarding the call, I misunderstood and if your reason for not taking call in IM is that you don't want to do IM, pediatrics or whatever for the length of the residency...you really won't want to do it for life. So think of the worst case scenarios. Whats the worst that could happen for you if you become a psychiatrist? Same with whatever your second or third choice would be.
Regarding the call, I misunderstood and if your reason for not taking call in IM is that you don't want to do IM, pediatrics or whatever for the length of the residency...you really won't want to do it for life. So think of the worst case scenarios. Whats the worst that could happen for you if you become a psychiatrist? Same with whatever your second or third choice would be.
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I can relate to the M.E. parent situation. The way to deal with it is to be an adult man/woman, put your foot down, and tell them psychiatry is what you'll be doing. They'll grow to overcome their disapproval (which is likely based on not really knowing the field as closely as you do), and continue to brag to everyone about what an awesome Dr. you are. You'd be surprised at how accepting they will be if you give them no choice. Best of luck.
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I think it is this simple. It's your life, and your parents (despite their disapproval now) want you to be happy. If psych is what you think will make you happy, do it and they'll see the light eventually. It doesn't sound like you're going to be able to reason with them, so I wouldn't try. I am but a lowly intern, but I've had a fabulous year. Psych makes me happy. Staying up all night to admit psych patients = fun. Staying up all night to check Q1 hour blood sugars on a patient in HHS while on medicine = somewhere between yawn and agony. I've had to deal with plenty of medical issues in the psych patients I've seen, and I've never once felt like I wasn't a real doctor. If you're drawn to psychiatry (NOT the norm for med students!), forget your parents and go for it.
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Again, SDN needs a "like" button.
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They think dermatologists and radiologists are real doctors? Hahahaha, what the hell? Sounds like your parents are a bunch of myopic medical students. What did they do? Go on google and search "physician compensation" to make that list? I'm not gonna make any statements on what constitutes "real" medicine, but I'm gonna call BS when you degrade psychiatry and put derm of all fields on a pedestal.
Tell them to learn something about medicine or how the world actually works before they make stupid comments like that.
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You are struggling not only with the question "what career should I choose?" but also "what will happen to me if I disappoint my parents?" There is no right answer that we can provide you, as we are all biased to say that you should just go into psychiatry, for God's sake, and your parents will forgive you later. Your family can't give you the right answer because they are biased to say that you should forget psychiatry so that they can continue to see you as an idealized version of themselves. I think it would be helpful to talk to someone who does not have a ball in this game. For all of you who ask yourselves what psychodynamic psychotherapy is for, I think this is illustrative. For the OP: perhaps you might consider a course of brief dynamic therapy, not because you are "sick", but because you are struggling with a major conflict between your goals, your identity and your close relationships that is causing you to have difficulty making an important life decision. This is exactly what this short-term, problem-focused treatment can help with. Plus, you can use the opportunity to learn a little about what some psychiatrists (certainly not all of us) do for a living.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. To me, the only "real doctors" are the cowboy docs doing extreme rural medicine, by themselves, where they do pretty much every procedure in every field. They're the hospitalists, FP's, dermatolgists, and surgeons.
Regarding psych: tell them to learn something about what psychiatrists actually do before they write it off. Ask them to talk to the family of a schizophrenic and see if they say a psychiatrist is a real doctor. If you're interested in "medicine," you could consider C-L psych...
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Not even Navy Seals can match Leonid Rogozov. If Russian Doctors can take out their own appendix, what are the Spetnaz like??
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I've lost count how many times the paths I've chosen have disappointed my elders (parents, mentors).
From what I've read, part of the crux is that people dislike what they don't understand. They know of other paths that they do understand because they have experience in it (know family members in it). You're creating a new trail. Acceptance then comes with experience. Either your demonstrating success in it, or their hearing others who they respect give you respect, or their learning more about the field and thus demystifying it.
Their intention is good (a "successful" life for you). But not having tried out every profession themselves, they're acting from limited information. As we all do.
At the end of the day I agree with above. The decision is yours, the happiness and satisfaction is yours. Internalizing parental desires is part of childhood, now it can be time to put away childish things. Step outside of this role and think about the bigger picture.
I have defied "common wisdom" and made other choices by always asking myself - When I'm 80 years old and look back on this, will I regret doing this, or more importantly regret NOT doing this?
From what I've read, part of the crux is that people dislike what they don't understand. They know of other paths that they do understand because they have experience in it (know family members in it). You're creating a new trail. Acceptance then comes with experience. Either your demonstrating success in it, or their hearing others who they respect give you respect, or their learning more about the field and thus demystifying it.
Their intention is good (a "successful" life for you). But not having tried out every profession themselves, they're acting from limited information. As we all do.
At the end of the day I agree with above. The decision is yours, the happiness and satisfaction is yours. Internalizing parental desires is part of childhood, now it can be time to put away childish things. Step outside of this role and think about the bigger picture.
I have defied "common wisdom" and made other choices by always asking myself - When I'm 80 years old and look back on this, will I regret doing this, or more importantly regret NOT doing this?
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Not even Navy Seals can match Leonid Rogozov. If Russian Doctors can take out their own appendix, what are the Spetnaz like??
Taking out the appendix is a requirement for passing the final SEAL test. Except you have to do it in shark infested waters...with coral.
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Work with dead trees much?
Wow. That was so non sequitir it was actually funny. It wasn't witty though...
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Thank you.
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That is so many kinds of awesome. You know, I actually think that medicine could solve its financial crisis by making it into a spectator sport/reality show. Imagine, appendectomies in huge stadiums on jumbotrons. A show about an inpatient psych ward, kinda like celebrity rehab. It could be huge, if we could only let go of this whole HIPAA nonsense.
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Really? That sounds like what you have to do to join the local girl scouts. To join the SAS you have to snorkel to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, grind yourself into dust on the rocks at the bottom and then dig through to the other side of the planet and emerge clean shaven and dressed for dinner and thats just to qualify for an interview.
Seriously they are all brave. Reminds me of all the people shot for being cowards during the first world war after going over the top multiple times and getting shell shock.
What are the chances they get looked after properly when they retire? Squat I bet and the cynicism of your first post on a related thread is probably not entirely misplaced imo.
