How to deal with *that* student

[pharmchica15]

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I'm an MS1 that has been in class for about 2 weeks now, and already there has been one specific student that obnoxiously tries to interject at every opportunity. She monopolizes the majority of after lecture question time by posing long, convoluted questions that aren't relevant. Not only is it a problem in the large lecture, but I also happen to be in the same smaller group (~12) where we are grouped together for discussions. In this setting, she also monopolizes a majority of the time, distracts others, and prevents some of the more quiet people from participating. Commonly, myself and others would start to speak, but she would just speak over them because her thoughts must have been more important. In addition, we are partly graded for participation, so I'm worried that if she continues to be the one that speaks most of the time, I could be penalized. In undergrad, we had super large class sizes that didn't lend well to asking questions to the entire class (questions were reserved for 1 on 1 or small group office hours), so I don't have much experience with the overly "obtuse" individual.

How have other people managed this type of person? Does everything eventually come out in the end, or is this what I should expect for the next 4 years?

 

[HomeSkool]

What? Sorry, I was talking and couldn't hear you.

 

[HomeSkool]

In all seriousness, participate to the best of your ability and ignore her as much as you can without being a jerk. Listen to her comments charitably and pick out the things of value, then discard the rest. Don't worry overmuch about her behavior; focus on yours and rest assured that she's declaring herself as THAT student just fine.

 

[Chelsea FC]

This is a good learning experience. Focus on yourself and standup for yourself when you have something to say. If she talks over you stop and say you haven't finish your point and carry on. You're a big person now you should be able to deal with this without turning to the internet.

 

[stayathomemom]

You could, of course, just talk to her about it privately. Some people are just that self-unaware that they don't even realize they're monopolizing.

 

[studentdocftw]

I had a classmate do something similar..he ended up dialing it back after a few of us confronted him about it. As long as you are honest and mean well, most reasonable people will listen.

 

[Sterling_Archer]

Don't worry about the participation grade. If you notice it, chances are the preceptors and other students do as well.

We also had someone like that in our class. Someone talked to them about it and they were more tolerable afterwards.

 

[Dr. Death]

Stop going to class

 

[Tenk]

Take solace in the fact that however much you hate this person, the professors hate them 100 times more.

 

[Terry Toma]

Some people come into med school feeling like they have to prove to everyone how smart and knowledgeable they are. Most of these types will chill out considerably within the first month or two.

90% chance this girl will get better on her own as she becomes more comfortable and stops feeling the need to prove herself at every opportunity. If she doesn't, like others have said, just politely talk to her about how she is coming across.

 

[Moko]

Professors have gone through similar experiences as well. They're not stupid and know what's going on. Focus on yourself and getting your points across, and you'll be fine.

 

[Medic741]

Stop going to class

This. But actually stop going to class.

Ignore them, they’ll become a pariah fast enough

 

[raiderette]

For small group discussion, talk to your leader outside of the session about changing the dynamic in the room. Point out the interrupting, which is rude. If she interrupts you, stop her, stating that you were not finished speaking. Encourage your classmates to do the same.
Be professional about it, but shut her down in group. For lectures, I have nothing. She won't get a better grade, nor will it help her. If you have a legitimate question, you may need to use business hours or email them.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Does "That Student" take social cues? She may tone it down when she finds herself ostracized...

 

[907914]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

 

[stayathomemom]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

Ask your superfluous questions privately after class or in an email.

 

[907914]

your superfluous questions

Gooooootcha. It is superfluous questions that lead to this perception. Nah, I don’t do the whole convoluted thing, it is almost always about the content being taught and contributory. NVM then, i am not that student lol

To address the question, definitely talking to them on a 1:1 basis will be very beneficial as they very well may not be aware.

 

[Sterling_Archer]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

If you think a core concept wasn't presented clearly, ask the question. If its just "extra" stuff you are curious about, for the love of god, do not waste everyone else's time in lecture. If you have superfluous questions after lecture, wait until quick questions are answered or email the professor.

Edit: Or look it up on google. Something many of my classmates clearly did not know existed..

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Gooooootcha. It is superfluous questions that lead to this perception. Nah, I don’t do the whole convoluted thing, it is almost always about the content being taught and contributory. NVM then, i am not that student lol

To address the question, definitely talking to them on a 1:1 basis will be very beneficial as they very well may not be aware.

I don't even know what superfluous or convoluted mean

just kidding....

 

[deleted480308]

Gooooootcha. It is superfluous questions that lead to this perception. Nah, I don’t do the whole convoluted thing, it is almost always about the content being taught and contributory. NVM then, i am not that student lol

To address the question, definitely talking to them on a 1:1 basis will be very beneficial as they very well may not be aware.

If you ask more than twice the avg number of questions you need to decrease your talking

If most never ask anything, you get one per lecture and only if it’s needed. This isn’t a chat over coffee with friends, it’s a test prep session

 

[ciestar]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

Do not waste people’s time. It is annoying and your classmates will hate you for it. It is fine if you need clarity on something, but it shouldn’t be excessive. I would mark my questions in my notes and ask after class if I needed extra clarification, or email.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

I'm not sure what the structure of your small group is like, or how often you meet, but one thing that my PBL groups have found somewhat helpful is coming up with ground rules for discussion at the start of the semester (when we get a new group) and giving group feedback at the end of each session. This can be good or bad feedback, and should be focused on making the next session run smoother.

This is NOT an opportunity to call individual people out by name, use general statements - "I've noticed that we tend to talk over each other sometimes, which is making it hard for some folks to share their thoughts. I think it would help our discussions go smoother if we make sure to let each other finish before jumping in, and maybe those of us who speak a lot can try to step back and let others talk more often."

If there's one or two problem people in the group, this usually gets the hint across without you looking like an a-hole. If you make a practice of doing it regularly early on, even if just to say "I think we did well today!" then it provides the space to bring up issues in the future. After a while you usually don't need to do it every session, because people start to get into a routine, but once you've normalized giving feedback you can always bring it back when an issue arises.

 

[stayathomemom]

I'm not sure what the structure of your small group is like, or how often you meet, but one thing that my PBL groups have found somewhat helpful is coming up with ground rules for discussion at the start of the semester (when we get a new group) and giving group feedback at the end of each session. This can be good or bad feedback, and should be focused on making the next session run smoother.

This is NOT an opportunity to call individual people out by name, use general statements - "I've noticed that we tend to talk over each other sometimes, which is making it hard for some folks to share their thoughts. I think it would help our discussions go smoother if we make sure to let each other finish before jumping in, and maybe those of us who speak a lot can try to step back and let others talk more often."

If there's one or two problem people in the group, this usually gets the hint across without you looking like an a-hole. If you make a practice of doing it regularly early on, even if just to say "I think we did well today!" then it provides the space to bring up issues in the future. After a while you usually don't need to do it every session, because people start to get into a routine, but once you've normalized giving feedback you can always bring it back when an issue arises.

This is good advice.
I have experience in leading small group discussions as a designated discussion leader, and while my experiences are different than a PBL situation, here is my usual procedure for this:
As group begins (for first time): set discussion expectations. Since I was a leader, I let them know I would interrupt if I needed to (although I would do this as absolute last resort).
During group: use transitions to redirect discussion while trying to pass it to another person, sometimes need to interject within an overtalker's monologue (ie "Well that reminds me of (xxx), Rachel, what do you think?")
After group: If it's a problem, respectfully approach the person after group. (ie "I appreciate your insight when we have our group discussion time. I value your point of view. I'm just worried that maybe others are not able to also share their perspective since we have a limited amount of time."
The next step can go one of two ways:
Recruit them in helping others: "Can you help me include them in the discussion?"
Ask them if there is anything you can do to help them keep it short (particularly useful if they acknowledge their propensity to overshare): "Would it be helpful if I give you a little sign if you're going over time? Maybe if I cough twice?")
Last resort: Straight-up interruption. "Time out. I can see we're getting going down a rabbit hole here. Let's refocus on (xxx). Rachel, what do you think?"
At all times maintain respect and healthy communication.

 

[NickNaylor]

The good news is that anyone who has had any interaction whatsoever with medical students will be able to spot this behavior for what it is. In the long run, people that interact with others in this way will not do well. It's less obvious that that's the case during the pre-clinical years because "people skills" and working in groups really isn't all that important, but that kind of behavior will be less tolerated when medical school transitions to be more like work (i.e., clinical clerkships) than school.

Even when I supervise medical students, a student can be very smart and clearly know the material and, yet, be a complete PITA to work with. The latter will have a much larger impact on my impressions of them than the former.

 

[IntheClouds4ever]

Flip the table over and tell her she is being an unruly heathen that is forever deserving of the relentless wrath of Cthulu for wasting everyone’s time.. followed with a fist raised and “praise be to Cthulu”

This will solve your problems and you will be legendary

 

[samac]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

I just want to reiterate to make it completely clear.

For the love of god don’t ask a lot of questions for “genuine interest/curiousity” during class.
Use google.
If that fails you ask AFTER class.

Don’t be the kid other people want to throw things at. Just don’t.

 

[Schwifty]

In one of my lectures today I identified *that* student. Literally had a 15min conversation with the professor DURING THE LECTURE

 

[Chibucks15]

Just ignore them as best you can. They'll get theirs when it comes to the clinical years and there really isn't a huge benefit to you by saying something. But each situation is different. Figure out the ROI and do what the math says

 

[Osteosaur]

You could, of course, just talk to her about it privately. Some people are just that self-unaware that they don't even realize they're monopolizing.

While in an ideal world everyone responds to criticism with grace and maturity, I would advise against this unless you know her well. You don't know how she is going to react, if she is going to have her eye on you for retaliation, or any number of things.

Just try to worry about yourself. I would sorely hope that none of your evaluation is coming from some kind of group session participation at this stage. Just try and learn the material.

 

[takeurmeds02]

...giving group feedback at the end of each session. This can be good or bad feedback, and should be focused on making the next session run smoother.

This is NOT an opportunity to call individual people out by name, use general statements - "I've noticed that we tend to talk over each other sometimes, which is making it hard for some folks to share their thoughts. I think it would help our discussions go smoother if we make sure to let each other finish before jumping in, and maybe those of us who speak a lot can try to step back and let others talk more often."

If there's one or two problem people in the group, this usually gets the hint across without you looking like an a-hole....

I did exactly this for PBL during second year and even gave it as an example for my SVI lol

Otherwise when people try to talk over me, I keep talking to finish my point because then it becomes clear that they tried to cut me off or I just say, hey I didn't finish my thought. It might come off a bit abrasive but it's extremely rude to interrupt someone - that's a basic tenet that's learned in preschool.

 

[keolu hills]

In one of my lectures today I identified *that* student. Literally had a 15min conversation with the professor DURING THE LECTURE

The professor should have established boundaries with the student. He/she could have said this: "I need to cover other things now. Please come see me during my office hours or after class."

 

[ConfusedAboutEverything]

Stop going to class

OP said they were graded in participation. So not going to class means low participation grade.

 

[deleted967981]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

Please, please, please don’t do this in class! Many of us (including you!!) have spouses and kids and lives that we’d like to spend some of our precious time on while trying to fit studying in around that. Having someone eat up our personal time causing a lecture to run long is so very inconsiderate. Email your questions, go to office hours or stay after lecture on your own.

Every spare moment is like gold in Med school. You’ll see next year.

 

[Osteosaur]

As someone who can be perceived as *that student* how do I make it so that it is obvious I ask lots of questions for genuine interest/curiosity as opposed to some kind of annoying kissasery?

It's really less about how you're perceived. It's that the lecture has to cover a lot of topics in a limited time and you're detracting from it. I can appreciate how for the first 22 years of your life you were in school being told all learning and curiosity is good and isn't it wonderful how you participate.

At this point you need to learn as much high yield boards relevant material you can in the shortest amount of time.

 

[907914]

It's really less about how you're perceived. It's that the lecture has to cover a lot of topics in a limited time and you're detracting from it. I can appreciate how for the first 22 years of your life you were in school being told all learning and curiosity is good and isn't it wonderful how you participate.

At this point you need to learn as much high yield boards relevant material you can in the shortest amount of time.

This makes a lot more sense. Different “throughput” compared to undergrad. Gonna be similar to my Army Training (60 credits in 6 months). Cool, I can do that. MED school lectures are about the volume not the *understanding why* sorta thing. Nifty, thanks!

 

[21Rush12]

It will stop. This s*** wears off eventually, everyone’s in the “i have to prove myself” phase still.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I disagree with every other poster. Become your enemy. Pose twice as many questions. Interrupt her twice as much. Flex on the faculty by implying that you know their life's work better than they do.

Or just let it work itself out.

 

[deleted936470]

i vote for paper spitballs