How to explain two terms of straight F's to med school admissions

[Le Rendezvous]

Two weeks after graduating from high school, I went straight to community college as a business computer database administration major. There, I very quickly got burnt out on school and got two straight terms of all F's. After that, I dropped out. I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at that time and stayed out of school for three and a half years.

Now, I'm back in school (at community college again) and have almost completed the first two years of a bachelor's degree transfer program. I am majoring in biology, and to cut costs, have taken the first two years at the community college. After I graduate with an associate’s degree I will transfer to a local university where I will start off as a junior in their pre-medical program. Finally, after getting my bachelors, I plan on applying to that university's medical school (University of Cincinnati) among others.

I now have a perfect 4.0 GPA and have been able to get the two terms of straight F's to not be calculated into my GPA. I plan on graduating from the university with a 4.0 as well and it seems highly possible. The problem is, these grades will still appear on my transcript. I plan on dedicating a very large amount of time of the next year studying for the MCAT, and I think I will score decently.

I am left wondering how medical school admissions will view my two straight terms of F's, three year hiatus, and relatively recent 4.0 GPA. Please answer knowing that I having decent research experience, two years of clinical volunteering, and have shadowed four physicians.

Will it blow my chances? Could it be excusable if I presented it as an opportunity to show that I have matured? Just how bad could it affect my applications?

Please share your inputs.

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[Morsetlis]

If you have retaken some of the F courses, you could apply to DO schools which will use the latest grades. Otherwise, you could apply to Special Master's Programs with a >3.0 cumulative GPA, do well, and then get accepted by linkage.

As for how to specifically explain it, use the essay forms and interviews 😛

If your GPA isn't horrible by the end of junior year, you could spend a thousand bucks and start applying. However, know that you will have to build a solid base of extracurricular activities too.

If I were you I'd wait till the end of senior year to further beef up my GPA. And, no, you don't have a "perfect" 4.0 GPA because the previous grades count.

 

[auburnO5]

Two weeks after graduating from high school, I went straight to community college as a business computer database administration major. There, I very quickly got burnt out on school and got two straight terms of all F's. After that, I dropped out. I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at that time and stayed out of school for three and a half years.

Now, I'm back in school (at community college again) and have almost completed the first two years of a bachelor's degree transfer program. I am majoring in biology, and to cut costs, have taken the first two years at the community college. After I graduate with an associate’s degree I will transfer to a local university where I will start off as a junior in their pre-medical program. Finally, after getting my bachelors, I plan on applying to that university's medical school (University of Cincinnati) among others.

I now have a perfect 4.0 GPA and have been able to get the two terms of straight F's to not be calculated into my GPA. I plan on graduating from the university with a 4.0 as well and it seems highly possible. The problem is, these grades will still appear on my transcript. I plan on dedicating a very large amount of time of the next year studying for the MCAT, and I think I will score decently.

I am left wondering how medical school admissions will view my two straight terms of F's, three year hiatus, and relatively recent 4.0 GPA. Please answer knowing that I having decent research experience, two years of clinical volunteering, and have shadowed four physicians.

Will it blow my chances? Could it be excusable if I presented it as an opportunity to show that I have matured? Just how bad could it affect my applications?

Please share your inputs.

As long as you keep your grades up, way up, and do well on the MCAT, I think that this would be something an adcom would understand if you explained it well. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[Le Rendezvous]

If you have retaken some of the F courses, you could apply to DO schools which will use the latest grades. Otherwise, you could apply to Special Master's Programs with a >3.0 cumulative GPA, do well, and then get accepted by linkage.

As for how to specifically explain it, use the essay forms and interviews 😛

If your GPA isn't horrible by the end of junior year, you could spend a thousand bucks and start applying. However, know that you will have to build a solid base of extracurricular activities too.

If I were you I'd wait till the end of senior year to further beef up my GPA. And, no, you don't have a "perfect" 4.0 GPA because the previous grades count.

The F's will not be calculated into the GPA on my transcript due to the community college's academic forgiveness policy as explained in my initial post. The university I plan on attending has confirmed that they will do they same.

Also, I might add that all of the general education classes have been taken again and replaced with grades of As but there are three courses that were pertinent to my previous major that were not retaken.

Thanks for the input, keep 'em coming. 😀

 

[rHinO1]

A year of all F's is going to drag down your AMCAS reported GPA drastically. Your best bet is to retake the classes and apply DO.

If you are set on applying only MD you will have to take enough classes to bring your GPA above a 3.5. You will have to do the math to figure out how long that will take. If you decide to invest the time in applying MD and raising your GPA then you will also have to do an excellent job of explaining your past grades. However, since it was several years ago and your recent grades will have to be straight A's that will go a long way toward proving you are not an academic risk at the med school level, and that you have matured. The 3.5+ GPA is a must though.

 

[auburnO5]

The F's will not be calculated into the GPA on my transcript due to the community college's academic forgiveness policy as explained in my initial post. The university I plan on attending has confirmed that they will do they same.

Also, I might add that all of the general education classes have been taken again and replaced with grades of As but there are three courses that were pertinent to my previous major that were not retaken.

Thanks for the input, keep 'em coming. 😀

When you fill out your AMCAS you will have to include those classes with the F's, the forgiveness policies won't matter. Even with that said I think as long as you continue to trend up, you still have a shot.

 

[J ROD]

No really good explanation....just do your best and try to show you can handle the work now.

 

[Morsetlis]

The F's will not be calculated into the GPA on my transcript due to the community college's academic forgiveness policy as explained in my initial post. The university I plan on attending has confirmed that they will do they same.

Also, I might add that all of the general education classes have been taken again and replaced with grades of As but there are three courses that were pertinent to my previous major that were not retaken.

Thanks for the input, keep 'em coming. 😀

You forget that the AMCAS will audit your transcripts. If the class is on your transcript, THEY WILL SEE IT.

 

[rHinO1]

The F's will not be calculated into the GPA on my transcript due to the community college's academic forgiveness policy as explained in my initial post. The university I plan on attending has confirmed that they will do they same.

Also, I might add that all of the general education classes have been taken again and replaced with grades of As but there are three courses that were pertinent to my previous major that were not retaken.

Thanks for the input, keep 'em coming. 😀

Here is the link to the amcas manual:
http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/amcas2009instructionmanual072808.pdf

Quote from page 9:

"Grades and credit hours for all failed courses will be included in
the AMCAS GPA, even if they are not included in the GPA​

calculations of the transcript-issuing institution."

Also refer to page 48 of the manual which says you must include grades despite academic renewal/forgiveness.

I know it sucks but it is better you learn the policies now rather than be crushed later.

 

[teenmachinery1]

Two weeks after graduating from high school, I went straight to community college as a business computer database administration major. There, I very quickly got burnt out on school and got two straight terms of all F's. After that, I dropped out. I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at that time and stayed out of school for three and a half years.

Now, I'm back in school (at community college again) and have almost completed the first two years of a bachelor's degree transfer program. I am majoring in biology, and to cut costs, have taken the first two years at the community college. After I graduate with an associate’s degree I will transfer to a local university where I will start off as a junior in their pre-medical program. Finally, after getting my bachelors, I plan on applying to that university's medical school (University of Cincinnati) among others.

I now have a perfect 4.0 GPA and have been able to get the two terms of straight F's to not be calculated into my GPA. I plan on graduating from the university with a 4.0 as well and it seems highly possible. The problem is, these grades will still appear on my transcript. I plan on dedicating a very large amount of time of the next year studying for the MCAT, and I think I will score decently.

I am left wondering how medical school admissions will view my two straight terms of F's, three year hiatus, and relatively recent 4.0 GPA. Please answer knowing that I having decent research experience, two years of clinical volunteering, and have shadowed four physicians.

Will it blow my chances? Could it be excusable if I presented it as an opportunity to show that I have matured? Just how bad could it affect my applications?

Please share your inputs.

Wow. So many words yet so little substance.

It's very much possible to get into medical school with the beginning of your transcript being all Fs. Make all the grades after that As. Done.

But might I suggest completing junior college, actually getting into a university and finishing the pre-med curriculum there, actually studying for and excelling in the MCAT, etc. etc. before you start worrying about medical school acceptance?

I'm just trying to say don't put the carriage in front of the horse and refer to my signature.

Getting all As after two terms of Fs is not easier than it sounds.

 

[the duck]

Hate to break it to you, but those F's will factor into your GPA for applying, no matter what some community college tells you.

Also, are you majoring in "pre-med"?

 

[plauto]

yep, AMCAS does include them in your GPA. It might be enough to drag you down very badly and your current 4.0 GPA from a CC is not helping either.
DO schools will forgive your previous grades if you retake those classes, so that's definitely worth thinking about. If you have access to a good premed advisor, your situation is definitely worth talking to him/her about to get some good advice about the best way to proceed forward.

 

[Le Rendezvous]

After reading over the AMCAS guide, it appears that they average out the grades of classes that you have taken with the new grades. So, since I have retaken all of the gen ed classes and received A's, would it be a good idea to retake the three database administration classes and get A's in those as well (even if they are not related to my major)?

At the community college, 1 term = 1/5 of a year. I failed two terms, will retake all of the classes so I will get an average grade of C. If I do the math correctly, I should still be able to get a 3.9 GPA if the F's of those two terms are averaged out with A's making C's and calculating four straight years of A's combined with two terms of C's.

 

[JJThomson]

Fact: The F's will be factored into your GPA when you apply

To give you some hope I have 3 D's and 5 W's on my transcript before I woke up and took school seriously. 4 years later I have a 3.78 cGPA despite those D's. I have had straight A's for the last 4 years. So it is possible if you are willing to work hard. Don't let people drag you down, just tell them to shut the F&*# up and work hard to prove them wrong.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Why has only one person recommended DO schools? As Morsetlis noted, they only factor in the most recent grade for a retaken class, so wiping those F's away should be cake. Just to get up to a 3.0 on his AMCAS, the OP would need 3 straight years of 4.0, an extremely unlikely prospect that would just barely get him to the point where he might possibly get an acceptance with an obscene MCAT score. DO is absolutely the way to go.

 

[billw]

After reading over the AMCAS guide, it appears that they average out the grades of classes that you have taken with the new grades. So, since I have retaken all of the gen ed classes and received A's, would it be a good idea to retake the three database administration classes and get A's in those as well (even if they are not related to my major)?

It doesn't matter for MD, since they are getting averaged. You might as well take a class that gets you a step closer to med school and get an A in it. For DO, you would do well to retake them.

As far as your math goes, maybe you should try putting together a quick spreadsheet.

 

[JJThomson]

After reading over the AMCAS guide, it appears that they average out the grades of classes that you have taken with the new grades. So, since I have retaken all of the gen ed classes and received A's, would it be a good idea to retake the three database administration classes and get A's in those as well (even if they are not related to my major)?

At the community college, 1 term = 1/5 of a year. I failed two terms, will retake all of the classes so I will get an average grade of C. If I do the math correctly, I should still be able to get a 3.9 GPA if the F's of those two terms are averaged out with A's making C's and calculating four straight years of A's combined with two terms of C's.

You don't have to re-take the classes. Any additional class you take and get an "A" in will have the same effect on your GPA. People are recommending the DO option because rather than averaging both the original and the retake, DO schools only include the grade for the retake when calculating your GPA. DO would be easier and you should be considering this option.

 

[Le Rendezvous]

I don't want to go to a DO school. I think it's pretty plausible to get in to University of Cincinnati's med school after reading what you guys have said.

 

[Bernoull]

Even if you can somehow excel in enough classes to bring ur gpa up to ~3.5, YOU (not US) still need to explain, convincely, why you failed all those classes.

ADCOMs want to be assured that the applicant is not only academically capable (which u've demonstrated by ur recent grades) but he/she takes his/her courses seriously. I'm not suggesting u weren't serious, there could be dozens of legitimate reasons why u did poorly, but explaining this will be ur task/challenge to ADCOMs.

Congrats on the grade uptrend!!!

Goodluck

 

[Depakote]

I don't want to go to a DO school. I think it's pretty plausible to get in to University of Cincinnati's med school after reading what you guys have said.

what makes you say that?


I'm concerned about your chances for a successful MD application. Your application has several red flags in it already which will be severely detrimental to your app process.

2 semesters of 0.0 GPA is going to drag down any subsequent grades you have, no matter how high. AMCAS does not forgive these grades, you can only hope to dilute them with lots of A's. This will take a very long time.

The way you describe your difficulty is "getting burned out on school". This is not something a medical school is going to look favorably upon when they're trying to find applicants that can handle the rigorous workload of medical school.

When you're applying for medical school, there are numerous applicants out there that don't have these red flags in their file. Most MD schools will select them preferentially. Don't assume you're competitive, assume it's an uphill battle and that you need to do absolutely everything possible to have the smallest chance of success.

DO schools are probably your best bet with the grade forgiveness. As mentioned above, you can retake the specific courses you failed and they will not count that against your GPA. They will still see that you failed classes and you may have to discuss that, but you're less likely to be screened out automatically. I'd consider this as a serious option, earlier rather than being forced to do it when you're reapplying.

 

[Geekchick921]

Why has only one person recommended DO schools? As Morsetlis noted, they only factor in the most recent grade for a retaken class, so wiping those F's away should be cake. Just to get up to a 3.0 on his AMCAS, the OP would need 3 straight years of 4.0, an extremely unlikely prospect that would just barely get him to the point where he might possibly get an acceptance with an obscene MCAT score. DO is absolutely the way to go.

Didn't he say in the OP that's he's got a 4.0 for two years already? Doesn't seem that impossible if he's 2/3s of the way through it already. Or maybe I read something wrong.

OP, I would retake every course you failed, in hopes of bumping it up to a C when they average it out. That said, I think you should be casting your net wider than just University of Cincinnati, with more MD schools and DO schools as well, but you're a few years from that either way.

 

[plauto]

I'm not in a DO school, but seriously, if you want to be a physician, MD or DO will do just fine. IMHO you're not in the position to choose at least at this point in your education. Not saying it's impossible, but you're seriously decreasing your chances to become a physician if you do not consider the DO route.
You also need to realize you have a 4.0 from a CC. Most med schools would not even consider that an accomplishment.
Just more food for thought.

 

[ChiDO]

The question is pretty simple.

How many F's do you have and how many credit hours were those in? (ie. I took 15 hours and got all F's)
How many total hours do you have now (not including the F's) and what is your GPA)?

Once we know these two answers, we can give you your ~AMCAS GPA. If it's above a 3.5 your good to go, if it's 3.0-3.5 you have some work to do.

Another option, would be to speak/set up a meeting with the admissions office at a medical school and see what they think about your grades/situation.

 

[anonymousername]

..but your chances of getting in are not all lost.

I now have a perfect 4.0 GPA and have been able to get the two terms of straight F's to not be calculated into my GPA...... I plan on dedicating a very large amount of time of the next year studying for the MCAT, and I think I will score decently.

Also, I might add that all of the general education classes have been taken again and replaced with grades of As but there are three courses that were pertinent to my previous major that were not retaken.

First off, lets cut the crap with this "perfect 4.0" stuff. You retook two terms of GenEd classes at community college, not upper division bio mechanics or astrophysics. Suffice it to say that you have several A's and several F's.

Will it blow my chances?

I doubt that it will kill your chances of getting into med school if you perform well from here on out and articulate a reasonable explanation for why you started so poorly. It sounds like you are motivated to do well but I don't think you should put all your eggs in one basket in the form of UoC.


edit...

exactly, answer these questions first so that we are clear on where you are, statistically.]

The question is pretty simple.

How many F's do you have and how many credit hours were those in? (ie. I took 15 hours and got all F's)
How many total hours do you have now (not including the F's) and what is your GPA)?

Once we know these two answers, we can give you your ~AMCAS GPA. If it's above a 3.5 your good to go, if it's 3.0-3.5 you have some work to do.
.

 

[red10]

i'm actually surprised how harsh everyone is being. I mean yea he better work his butt off to get in and he'll definitely have to explain himself (and well) but I still think you have hope for MD if you apply broadly, explain your path and new found focus in your personal statement, and excel from here on out, get involved, and have lots of medical experience.

Of course he's going to have to work harder than someone straight out of college who "has always wanted to be a doctor" and worked with DABs or w/e. But the OP isn't coming in as someone who drank themself stupid the first 2 years of college and suddenly wants to be a doc and apply next year. As a non-trad there is hope that he'll be able to get into an MD program assuming he's stellar from here on out and can explain himself well when it comes time.

 

[Schemp]

I read about half of these and people are being incredibly negative for the most part. There is nothing wrong with DO school, but you aren't relegated to it with no other options just because you had two bad quarters. For god's sake, you were out of school for three years, clearly you're a different person. Just consider it a good opportunity to set yourself apart by being able to show a meaningful transition in which you discovered what you really wanted to do and found your motivation.

I am in almost the exact same position, except I have over 2 years of very poor grades, so no matter what I will never really get above a 3.3/3.4, and I'm very confident I will get into a US MD school, and probably a pretty good one. Those old grades matter but they are NOT going to ruin your chances. Just work hard for the next 3-4 years keeping up around a 3.8+, do well on the MCAT, stay involved with extracurriculars, and you'll get plenty of acceptances.

 

[Planet Ocean]

OP, I am totally rooting for you. I think you should just continue with your plan. Im sure there has been people who were worse off than you and still got in. Worst case scenario you fall short of M.D. and end up being a good candidate for D.O.

 

[Caysaene]

OP, I am totally rooting for you. I think you should just continue with your plan. Im sure there has been people who were worse off than you and still got in. Worst case scenario you fall short of M.D. and end up being a good candidate for D.O.

OP already said he didn't want to go DO at all.

 

[schrizto]

i'm actually surprised how harsh everyone is being. I mean yea he better work his butt off to get in and he'll definitely have to explain himself (and well) but I still think you have hope for MD if you apply broadly, explain your path and new found focus in your personal statement, and excel from here on out, get involved, and have lots of medical experience.

Of course he's going to have to work harder than someone straight out of college who "has always wanted to be a doctor" and worked with DABs or w/e. But the OP isn't coming in as someone who drank themself stupid the first 2 years of college and suddenly wants to be a doc and apply next year. As a non-trad there is hope that he'll be able to get into an MD program assuming he's stellar from here on out and can explain himself well when it comes time.

People are harsh in this thread because it's a reality, and SDN generally is on the positive side with threads about difficult situations. And being harsh here too, but how do you know the OP didn't "drink himself stupid" the first two years of college? A person can still get at least average grades at a CC being burnt out by school, straight F's indicate complete apathy or a serious distraction.

There might me more information the OP hasn't revealed, and that's what he did in his three-year hiatus from school. What happened that caused him to "wake up" and realize he needed to put himself back on track? etc.

 

[schrizto]

OP, I am totally rooting for you. I think you should just continue with your plan. Im sure there has been people who were worse off than you and still got in. Worst case scenario you fall short of M.D. and end up being a good candidate for D.O.

Er, worst case scenario is not getting into DO at all. Don't put DO so low on the totem pole.

 

[Planet Ocean]

OP already said he didn't want to go DO at all.

Please tell me you do realize how many people start out with an attitude towards D.O. like that but eventually warm up? I don't know the OP but if he or she really wants to practice then it is an attractive option. Plus you could always still land a kickazz residency 🙂

 

[Planet Ocean]

Er, worst case scenario is not getting into DO at all. Don't put DO so low on the totem pole.

I suppose that came out wrong. What I was trying to say is shoot for the moon that way if you fall short you are still among the stars. I have the utmost respect for D.O. 🙂

 

[Caysaene]

Please tell me you do realize how many people start out with an attitude towards D.O. like that but eventually warm up? I don't know the OP but if he or she really wants to practice then it is an attractive option. Plus you could always still land a kickazz residency 🙂

No, I do - and I'm slowly learning it myself. To be honest, I'm leaning towards DO over MD because I like the idea of OMM and have done some research on it. 🙂 Lots more to do, but it's a start.

The OP just seems incredibly against it and has ignored every DO-related solution so far.

 

[red10]

People are harsh in this thread because it's a reality, and SDN generally is on the positive side with threads about difficult situations. And being harsh here too, but how do you know the OP didn't "drink himself stupid" the first two years of college? A person can still get at least average grades at a CC being burnt out by school, straight F's indicate complete apathy or a serious distraction.

There might me more information the OP hasn't revealed, and that's what he did in his three-year hiatus from school. What happened that caused him to "wake up" and realize he needed to put himself back on track? etc.

I guess I don't know that he didn't drink himself stupid, but he said he burnt out so i assumed he just hated his major or something. It's possible that he was just stupid, but none the less he's had time off in which I assume he used to get his act together, find his purpose in life, etc. It's different than someone who drank for 2 years and then decided junior year to be a doctor and apply at the end of that year. With time off usually comes growth and hopefully maturity.

I think it's a good thing to be blunt and honest instead of sugar coating, but some people are just being like "you're screwed. give up now."

 

[schrizto]

I think it's a good thing to be blunt and honest instead of sugar coating, but some people are just being like "you're screwed. give up now."

The posts that could be considered discouraging were either "MD would be hard, you should try DO" or clarifying that AMCAS recalculates GPA. That's a far cry from "you're screwed. give up now".

 

[rHinO1]

The fact the OP got straigh A's the past two years is a sign he isn't stupid (like some people have said). The fact it was at a cc is irrelevent, because he did the best anybody could do in his situation. People make mistakes, it is best to just say "I screwed up and I learned from my mistake" if asked about it. To me that is the best response anyone can give in his situation. If he wants to put in the time raising his GPA (and it will take a long time) to apply MD then that is his choice to make. A lot of people do post-bacc GPA repair.

I think DO would be a great option for him and let him practice sooner than if he goes for MD, but it is his choice to make. Either way I wish you luck OP.

 

[Schemp]

The posts that could be considered discouraging were either "MD would be hard, you should try DO" or clarifying that AMCAS recalculates GPA. That's a far cry from "you're screwed. give up now".

Well, some people clearly seem to think MD is more than hard, but actually just about impossible, which isn't true. And some people are treating his poor performance as something that adcoms just won't be able to understand no matter what. Granted, getting full Fs rather than just low grades is kind of surprising, but the OP has clearly demonstrated that he's not the same person. I know from personal experience that you can do bad in a lot of classes because you have no idea why you're even in school and having even just kind of unusual circumstances outside of school. You don't have to be a total loser abusing drugs or something to make a mistake like that. That's why I don't think he really has much to worry about. He's basically starting from scratch.

 

[Caysaene]

Well, some people clearly seem to think MD is more than hard, but actually just about impossible, which isn't true. And some people are treating his poor performance as something that adcoms just won't be able to understand no matter what. Granted, getting full Fs rather than just low grades is kind of surprising, but the OP has clearly demonstrated that he's not the same person. I know from personal experience that you can do bad in a lot of classes because you have no idea why you're even in school and having even just kind of unusual circumstances outside of school. You don't have to be a total loser abusing drugs or something to make a mistake like that. That's why I don't think he really has much to worry about. He's basically starting from scratch.

I think one thing some of the other people were commenting about is he said his failure was from burn-out. Also, we don't know how many credits he is/was taking..for all we know, he's taking 6-8 credits a semester and getting straight As. It may or may not show to adcoms that he can prove himself in 20+ credits of intense, high-level science courses like medical school. If he can continue that 4.0 in some super high-level science courses, it'd be more impressive. We have no idea how many credits or even what classes.

 

[lovemesomeTJ]

To answer the thread question, if you are granted an interview at a school, I would say that "the grades that I received in my first two terms of school are not an adequate reflection of my ability to succeed in medical school, as evidenced by the 4.0 average I was able to maintain upon my return to school..." I would go on, but the best part would cost you.

I know you'll probably be itching to explain yourself in your AMCAS app, but don't. Use that area to shine and explain who you are, not bring up all of your red flags. And to up your odds of making it to an interview have some kick-ass ECs that will help adcoms overlook the Fs.

 

[rHinO1]

I think one thing some of the other people were commenting about is he said his failure was from burn-out. Also, we don't know how many credits he is/was taking..for all we know, he's taking 6-8 credits a semester and getting straight As. It may or may not show to adcoms that he can prove himself in 20+ credits of intense, high-level science courses like medical school. If he can continue that 4.0 in some super high-level science courses, it'd be more impressive. We have no idea how many credits or even what classes.

What does any of that matter? If he is only taking 6 credits then he should give up? but if it is 20 credits then he is good to go?

Of course he's in better shape the more credits he has taken, but some people on this thread seem bent on shredding this kid. MD will take a lot of work but it is not impossible.

 

[Caysaene]

What does any of that matter? If he is only taking 6 credits then he should give up? but if it is 20 credits then he is good to go?

Of course he's in better shape the more credits he has taken, but some people on this thread seem bent on shredding this kid. MD will take a lot of work but it is not impossible.

No, I just don't want to get the poor guy's hopes up that if he's acing say 10CR at a community college of sophomore-based sciences "means" that he'll do the same to a full courseload [16+?] of upper science. Depending on how many credits he's managed at his CC (which we don't know), and especially if he has never taken classes at a four-year (much less upper level), we have no idea how well he will perform. Assumptions like that [that CC and Uni classes are equal in upper levels] can be deadly - I've seen it happen to a few friends, and I'm monitoring my own transformation carefully. I personally think that he has a shot at MD (and people have told me that I do, too, and my transcript looks like the Himalayas for the first two and a half years). I may have a shot at lower-tier MD schools and maybe some upper DO depending on my grades/MCAT in the future. It's possible, just really, really difficult.

Whatever happens, I wish the OP best of luck and hope that he succeeds and makes it into an MD school. If not, DO school is not the end of the world - it's got its goods and its bad, just like allopathic. Not making it in at all to anything would be the most tragic.

 

[Morsetlis]

Well, with a calculator and some paper the OP should be able to plot out his plans for the next 3-4 years. If the GPA by the end of senior year, including the F's, is above 3.00, he can apply to a Special Master's Program and use the linkage to get into med school.

 

[slowbutsteady]

After reading over the AMCAS guide, it appears that they average out the grades of classes that you have taken with the new grades. So, since I have retaken all of the gen ed classes and received A's, would it be a good idea to retake the three database administration classes and get A's in those as well (even if they are not related to my major)?

At the community college, 1 term = 1/5 of a year. I failed two terms, will retake all of the classes so I will get an average grade of C. If I do the math correctly, I should still be able to get a 3.9 GPA if the F's of those two terms are averaged out with A's making C's and calculating four straight years of A's combined with two terms of C's.

You still seem confused about how this "averaging" happens. AMCAS will not average your retakes with the F's, create C's, and then average those with your other alleged A's.

They will average all of them together and you will not have a 3.9. No matter how many semesters of As you have, you will not have a 3.9.

Dude, you are the absolutely last person who should be DO-bashing. You have a troubling record for any medical school, DO or MD.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I think one thing some of the other people were commenting about is he said his failure was from burn-out. Also, we don't know how many credits he is/was taking..for all we know, he's taking 6-8 credits a semester and getting straight As. It may or may not show to adcoms that he can prove himself in 20+ credits of intense, high-level science courses like medical school. If he can continue that 4.0 in some super high-level science courses, it'd be more impressive. We have no idea how many credits or even what classes.

Oh, and "burn-out" from the pressures of high school and community college?

Please.

Does not bode well for 3rd year rotations.

 

[stevesavi]

OP- I did this same thing. I failed out of school straight after hs with a 1.1 cgpa in 2 semesters. I joined the army, got out, started over, kept a 3.97 during the last 3.5 yrs and applied this cycle as a junior. My amcas cgpa is a 3.43 sgpa is a 3.50. I have been accepted to three stateside allopathic schools, two schools in state and USUHS.

It actually doesnt take much explanation. Mention in your PS that at 18 you were unfocused and didnt know what you wanted to do and now you do. Just dont let off the brakes as far as grades are concerned, you need to be an unquestionably solid applicant with the exception of your past mistakes.

Everybody likes to see somebody come from behind, its a good story, your interviewers who read through your file closely think you're a hero for dusting yourself off and overcoming the huge barrier you've created for yourself. Be unique, I majored in math, you should find something that interests you (it makes it easy to keep getting those A's and it continues to differentiate you as a candidate.) Make connections with the prof's in your dept so you can get very personolized LOR's. Many people will tell you its too big a hole but its not.

I will say I dont think your math is quite right in regards to the gpa you will be able to achieve. Its best to go by semester hours, how many semester hours of F's do you have? those are 0 points. So multiply the 4.0 times the number of hours that you will be getting A's and divide that by the number of hours you got A's plus the number of hours you got F's.
eg- 120 hrs of A's and 20 hrs F's looks like this: total pts (120 x 4.0) + (20 x 0)= 480, gpa = 480/(120+20) = 3.42
when they say "averageing" they mean they will be counted the same. your math was counting the replacement a's twice, once to average with the f for a c, and a second time in your 4 years worth of a's. amcas will be calculated like my example.
GL

 

[Schemp]

Oh, and "burn-out" from the pressures of high school and community college?

Please.

Does not bode well for 3rd year rotations.

This is stupid. Did he say burn out from pressure? Quit being so negative.

I "burnt out" as well, but what that entailed was a complete lack of interest in school because I hadn't found anything that actually interested me. It sounds like he had the same issue, mostly due to having no specific goal. Once he found his motivation he has done quite well, and if he keeps that going he will be just fine.

 

[slowbutsteady]

OP- I did this same thing. I failed out of school straight after hs with a 1.1 cgpa in 2 semesters. I joined the army, got out, started over, kept a 3.97 during the last 3.5 yrs and applied this cycle as a junior. My amcas cgpa is a 3.43 sgpa is a 3.50. I have been accepted to three stateside allopathic schools, two schools in state and USUHS.

It actually doesnt take much explanation. Mention in your PS that at 18 you were unfocused and didnt know what you wanted to do and now you do. Just dont let off the brakes as far as grades are concerned, you need to be an unquestionably solid applicant with the exception of your past mistakes.

Everybody likes to see somebody come from behind, its a good story, your interviewers who read through your file closely think you're a hero for dusting yourself off and overcoming the huge barrier you've created for yourself. Be unique, I majored in math, you should find something that interests you (it makes it easy to keep getting those A's and it continues to differentiate you as a candidate.) Make connections with the prof's in your dept so you can get very personolized LOR's. Many people will tell you its too big a hole but its not.

I will say I dont think your math is quite right in regards to the gpa you will be able to achieve. Its best to go by semester hours, how many semester hours of F's do you have? those are 0 points. So multiply the 4.0 times the number of hours that you will be getting A's and divide that by the number of hours you got A's plus the number of hours you got F's.
eg- 120 hrs of A's and 20 hrs F's looks like this: total pts (120 x 4.0) + (20 x 0)= 480, gpa = 480/(120+20) = 3.42
when they say "averageing" they mean they will be counted the same. your math was counting the replacement a's twice, once to average with the f for a c, and a second time in your 4 years worth of a's. amcas will be calculated like my example.
GL

If the OP joins the military, he will do well. Otherwise, not so much.

Not sure why he/she has so many defenders. He will be competing with many who have done everything right. "You" have done everything right, or have made it right.

I would admit you, not him.

 

[flip26]

How is it even possible to have 2 consecutive terms of all Fs? No scholastic probation at this college? How does that even work? Can you really continue at a college after a term of all Fs?

An adcom will need to see some genuine maturation. Making As since then is a start. But I see this as a character issue - one that can be overcome - but the last thing I would want to read is a litany of excuses (GF left me, dog died, chronic diarrhea).

 

[morning]

This is stupid. Did he say burn out from pressure? Quit being so negative.

I "burnt out" as well, but what that entailed was a complete lack of interest in school because I hadn't found anything that actually interested me. It sounds like he had the same issue, mostly due to having no specific goal. Once he found his motivation he has done quite well, and if he keeps that going he will be just fine.

The amount of people this happens to is scary and it's not because they can't handle pressure, it's because society basically herds you into more school as a dumb 18 year old who probably has no idea what you want to do yet. The system earns money off of you and your student loans are non-dischargeable, so why not? The OP is in good company here. It doesn't mean he won't be able to handle medical school...it means that he made a mistake years ago, before he was even old enough to buy a beer from a convenience store. Unfortunately for the OP his mistake wasn't something small like dropping out of high school, but at least it wasn't as big as committing a felony, which would make him completely uneligible.

I think a perfect 4.0 throughout college would raise his GPA enough that the adcoms would at least look at his app. That's what he needs, to get them looking long enough to see that his Fs were a long, long time ago and he's maintained perfect grades for years since. But obviously he does have his work cut out for him.

 

[flip26]

OP- I did this same thing. I failed out of school straight after hs with a 1.1 cgpa in 2 semesters. I joined the army, got out, started over, kept a 3.97 during the last 3.5 yrs and applied this cycle as a junior. My amcas cgpa is a 3.43 sgpa is a 3.50. I have been accepted to three stateside allopathic schools, two schools in state and USUHS.

The bolded is the key.

From what has been written here, the OP doesn't have "the right stuff" to do this (e.g., his attitude towards DO is ridiculous).