How to get into clinical research

[mojetter]

Anyone have experience with how to break into the clinical research industry (ie pharm industry). That is without going back for a degree...

Thank you.

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[OldPsychDoc]

Study horticulture and move to Colorado?

 

[Monkey House]

Writing a review paper. If you already know the material, writing it up is not too bad. If you can publish it and show industry that you are the expert in that area - it will at least get you taken seriously.

 

[mojetter]

..Thanks for the info, Im asking because I keep seeing these non-research degreed clinicians giving dinner talks for drug reps about their clinical research...

Study horticulture and move to Colorado?

...now i HAVE considered that but here in Maryland. lol. They are hammering out the rules for the upcoming medical marijuana industry right now...

 

[smalltownpsych]

Maybe you should call the thread "how to become a hired gun for the pharmaceutical companies". Actually, the psychiatrists that I have seen give talks about various medications seemed knowledgeable and generally ethical, but I don't know if they are really involved in the research that these companies are conducting. They seem to usuaully report the drug companies research and then provide anecdotes of clinical experiences and answer clinical questions from the audience. I could be wrong, but don't you have to be a MD/PhD and make that your career to really be involved in the clinical trials?

 

[michaelrack]

I could be wrong, but don't you have to be a MD/PhD and make that your career to really be involved in the clinical trials?

To work for the pharm company that designs the trial, probably. To be a doc in the community that carries out the trials, NO. The pharm company needs docs in the community (or in academia) to enroll patients in clinical trials (multi-site) and carry them out. The doc follows a protocol and typically performs various rating scales (PANNS, CGI, HAM-D, etc), under the remote supervision of the pharm company. There is big $ to be made from doing clinical trials, in the community.

 

[smalltownpsych]

To work for the pharm company that designs the trial, probably. To be a doc in the community that carries out the trials, NO. The pharm company needs docs in the community (or in academia) to enroll patients in clinical trials (multi-site) and carry them out. The doc follows a protocol and typically performs various rating scales (PANNS, CGI, HAM-D, etc), under the remote supervision of the pharm company. There is big $ to be made from doing clinical trials, in the community.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that they did that. The vast majority of our research in psychology is conducted through universities so we have pretty limited knowledge about the pharmaceutical research.

 

[whopper]

I've seen some psychiatrists do a research fellowship.

Other than this be in a residency that's actively doing pharm research. Please do not let the unethical actions of a few taint the view of all research psychiatrists.

The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of academic psychiatrists are making less money than they would had they done private practice. I'm currently involved in a pharm-research study and I'm not going to make 1 penny on it for myself. All of the money is being scooped up and taken by the department. I have no problem with a hard working researcher getting some of that money cause heck I'm getting NOTHING and I am doing work on it on top of my regular full-time job that pays half of what I would've made in private practice. Does that sound fair?

Where I'm at we have staff members actively getting doctors into research. I was in a residency where there was very little research being done and I asked everywhere and I wasn't getting any cause the attendings weren't doing any nor was any effort by the department being done to get research done.

My advice-go to a residency where research is going on and then see if you can get involved in it. I've seen some programs do research but the people doing the work didn't extend their hand to get students and residents involved. Some programs will go out of their way to get students and residents involved.

 

[Blitz2006]

I've seen some psychiatrists do a research fellowship.

Other than this be in a residency that's actively doing pharm research. Please do not let the unethical actions of a few taint the view of all research psychiatrists.

The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of academic psychiatrists are making less money than they would had they done private practice. I'm currently involved in a pharm-research study and I'm not going to make 1 penny on it for myself. All of the money is being scooped up and taken by the department. I have no problem with a hard working researcher getting some of that money cause heck I'm getting NOTHING and I am doing work on it on top of my regular full-time job that pays half of what I would've made in private practice. Does that sound fair?

Where I'm at we have staff members actively getting doctors into research. I was in a residency where there was very little research being done and I asked everywhere and I wasn't getting any cause the attendings weren't doing any nor was any effort by the department being done to get research done.

My advice-go to a residency where research is going on and then see if you can get involved in it. I've seen some programs do research but the people doing the work didn't extend their hand to get students and residents involved. Some programs will go out of their way to get students and residents involved.

and if your residency program isn't a research heavy weight like Columbia or McLean, how do I go about it after residency?

 

[Shikima]

and if your residency program isn't a research heavy weight like Columbia or McLean, how do I go about it after residency?

Continue with the development of a close relationship with your faculty and carry that momentum into you getting your CPI and setting up your own.

 

[Blitz2006]

To work for the pharm company that designs the trial, probably. To be a doc in the community that carries out the trials, NO. The pharm company needs docs in the community (or in academia) to enroll patients in clinical trials (multi-site) and carry them out. The doc follows a protocol and typically performs various rating scales (PANNS, CGI, HAM-D, etc), under the remote supervision of the pharm company. There is big $ to be made from doing clinical trials, in the community.

Continue with the development of a close relationship with your faculty and carry that momentum into you getting your CPI and setting up your own.

Thanks. I'm assuming joining the faculty at a big name place like Columbia is also a ticket into clinical trials. And for me to join a place like this as staff, do I just have to publish like mad in residency? Or are there are factors?

One of the major reasons I chose psych is for psychopharm/clinical trial involvement....

 

[Shikima]

Thanks. I'm assuming joining the faculty at a big name place like Columbia is also a ticket into clinical trials. And for me to join a place like this as staff, do I just have to publish like mad in residency? Or are there are factors?

One of the major reasons I chose psych is for psychopharm/clinical trial involvement....

Pedigree doesn't get you into clinical trials. Experience and connections create opportunities.

 

[Blitz2006]

Pedigree doesn't get you into clinical trials. Experience and connections create opportunities.

Fair enough.

Last question, how do I make these connections? Do companies like Eli Lilly and Pfizer have conferences in the NYC area for Psychiatrists? Do I go to conferences like APA and IPS?

and by experience I'm assuming you mean, research/publications?

 

[Shikima]

Experience in conducting clinical trials as a Sub-I and working towards getting your PI. Collaborating with clinical trial coordinators to be sure you have the necessary resources to complete the study requirements. Lately the trials I've seen want expensive and rare neuroimaging such as PET.

 

[michaelrack]

Experience in conducting clinical trials as a Sub-I and working towards getting your PI. .

exactly, this is how to do it.

 

[Blitz2006]

exactly, this is how to do it.

Right, but if my hospital doesn't do clinical trials (as is the case), anyway else I can get involved as a resident externally, or just wait until I become attending and join an academic institution?

 

[Shikima]

I don't have an easy answer for this. Might I recommend that you join an academic institution which has clinical trials on-going to learn and to work as a Sub-I?