Hi, I'm pretty new here. I am 34 yrs old with many responsibilities and obligations (just like many nontrads). Full-time working (only recently decided to become a med doctor from completely different industry), clinical volunteering, and taking all the pre-req classes, while trying fulfill other responsibilities and obligations seem pretty rough and difficult road to take for many years to come. I would love to hear from those who have successfully carried out all these tasks. Particularly, I think it would be enormously helpful if you would share a couple of tips, or perhaps inspiring quotes, experiences, that kept you going with passion and zeal... perhaps stories or just pep talks about never giving up even in seemingly dire circumstances would be great inspiration to me and those similarly situated nontrads. thanks
how to keep going?
- Thread starter 2ndchance2dream
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well, hello there 🙂
umm, I am in a similar boat, except, I am not married and I don't have kids (I am not sure if you do), but I live alone and work a fulltime job as a software engineer (been doing the software thing since summer 2005).
make story short, I started working on my pre-med requirements as a post-bacc student at MSU in January 2007.... The way I started initially was I used to take "late" classes (you know, after 4 PM) one class at a time along with its lab..... Eventually, I increased my load to taking more classes during 1 semester..... Its all about how you can handle your course load, if you think taking more than 1 class at a time while working fulltime, then stay at it, if it becomes kinda easy, increase your load to 2 classes at a time...
I know the road is long and looks pretty stressfull, but trust me, when you start, you WILL EVENTUALLY finish.... don't worry about how much time its going to take, the important thing is you start and you keep going. Nothing in this world is going to taste better than the day I finally get accepted to a medical school (not even sex.... well.... maybe equivalent)
My biggest strategy was to work on my pre-meds first (maybe do a little bit of shadowing here and there, but I didn't wanna start on my volunteering just yet because as you can tell.... my schedule is hellish as is).... I am starting the volunteering process now and by time I apply for the first time to medical schools (June 2009), I'll have anywhere from 200-400 hospital volunteering hours, its probebly not alot, but its better than nothing
Good luck with everything
umm, I am in a similar boat, except, I am not married and I don't have kids (I am not sure if you do), but I live alone and work a fulltime job as a software engineer (been doing the software thing since summer 2005).
make story short, I started working on my pre-med requirements as a post-bacc student at MSU in January 2007.... The way I started initially was I used to take "late" classes (you know, after 4 PM) one class at a time along with its lab..... Eventually, I increased my load to taking more classes during 1 semester..... Its all about how you can handle your course load, if you think taking more than 1 class at a time while working fulltime, then stay at it, if it becomes kinda easy, increase your load to 2 classes at a time...
I know the road is long and looks pretty stressfull, but trust me, when you start, you WILL EVENTUALLY finish.... don't worry about how much time its going to take, the important thing is you start and you keep going. Nothing in this world is going to taste better than the day I finally get accepted to a medical school (not even sex.... well.... maybe equivalent)
My biggest strategy was to work on my pre-meds first (maybe do a little bit of shadowing here and there, but I didn't wanna start on my volunteering just yet because as you can tell.... my schedule is hellish as is).... I am starting the volunteering process now and by time I apply for the first time to medical schools (June 2009), I'll have anywhere from 200-400 hospital volunteering hours, its probebly not alot, but its better than nothing
Good luck with everything
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Honestly, the best advice I got during my process (and we all go through periods of self-doubt) was from an attending physician who really encouraged me to pursue medicine.
Basically his advice was to always remember that your commiting yourself to a process of life-long learning. You'll be practicing medicine for 20-30 years even with the late start. And the learning and career management doesn't stop with medical school. There's USMLE 1,2,3, residency programs, fellowships, boards, academics, tenure etc. So you're committing to a process, one that's exciting and offers lifelong intellectual engagement. So the few years you spend now in post-bacs and EC building should always be viewed as just those first few steps in a long journey of discovery. Most attendings say that you really hit your stride as a physician after 10-15 years of practicing, when you're seasoned, experienced, and still vigorous. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if you hit those golden years at 50 versus 52, etc.?
If medicine is truly what you want you'll make it happen.
Alot of us nontrads get hit with depressing moments of urgency, "man I'm XX years old, I'll be 50 before I make money." But I always remember how hard I worked and for so little as a teacher, but still managed to pay the bills, have fun, and support my family. Resident and fellow salaries aren't that different from teacher salaries, and trust me a good public school teacher puts in just as many hours as an intern over the course of a year. Plus teachers don't have the prospect of a 600+ percent increase in salary down the road.
Basically his advice was to always remember that your commiting yourself to a process of life-long learning. You'll be practicing medicine for 20-30 years even with the late start. And the learning and career management doesn't stop with medical school. There's USMLE 1,2,3, residency programs, fellowships, boards, academics, tenure etc. So you're committing to a process, one that's exciting and offers lifelong intellectual engagement. So the few years you spend now in post-bacs and EC building should always be viewed as just those first few steps in a long journey of discovery. Most attendings say that you really hit your stride as a physician after 10-15 years of practicing, when you're seasoned, experienced, and still vigorous. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if you hit those golden years at 50 versus 52, etc.?
If medicine is truly what you want you'll make it happen.
Alot of us nontrads get hit with depressing moments of urgency, "man I'm XX years old, I'll be 50 before I make money." But I always remember how hard I worked and for so little as a teacher, but still managed to pay the bills, have fun, and support my family. Resident and fellow salaries aren't that different from teacher salaries, and trust me a good public school teacher puts in just as many hours as an intern over the course of a year. Plus teachers don't have the prospect of a 600+ percent increase in salary down the road.
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As far as my journey, there were plenty of sacrifices, but all worth it now that i'm finally ready to apply (filling out secondaries now).
When I met with the admissions office to map out my plan, these were the things they stressed would add to my application:
1) a recent record of academic excellence (especially in science classes)
2) patient contact experience
3) goodwill works (volunteering, experience working with disadvantaged groups)
4) bench or clinical research, the closer to clinical applications the better - for instance, working at a marine biology lab would be less impressive than say a lab working on aids, diabetes, arthritis, etc.
5) a good MCAT, shoot for 11+ on each section
6) physician shadowing
7) experience in a hospital (volunteering, working, shadowing, etc.) this one kind of confused me, but the admissions office said they often notice it when a applicant hasn't had significant time at a hospital. Many applicants feel they've met their patient contact requirements by volunteering at clinics, ER, doctor's offices, nursing homes or being an EMT. But the admissions guys told me that because the bulk of your clinical training as a medical student will be in hospitals they want to know that you've taken the time to do your homework and learned exactly how a hospital works and various roles of different specialties and support staff. One guy put it to me this way, "would you want to accept a guy into the seminary, just because he liked church, hung out with churchgoers, but never actually went to church?"
As far as the sacrifices I made, I took a 40% pay cut to get a secretarial job at a hospital, but used it to segue into a nurse's aide job at a cancer hospital. But that was offset by the tuition benefits which let me take two classes a quarter for free. Had to learn to budget alot better with the little money I'm making now, but I look at it as good practice for during those lean years as a resident and fellow. I've also had to learn to manage my time better (my wife and I still fight about "us" time and our lack of it). It's not just taking pay cuts that hurts. Working full-time while taking classes isn't the only thing on your plate. You have volunteering, studying for the MCAT. I've volunteered at a hospital, been a volunteer research assistant, all while working 40+ hours at a hospital, taking 2 classes a quarter. And still had to find time to shadow physicians and do my own personal research on medical issues and the latest medical research. It ain't easy and every now and then you need to just get away and do something not "medical". I play the guitar, and quite badly I might add, but I love it because it has absolutely nothing to do with my career, and I'm allowed to suck at it.
Oh yeah, here's another tip. Starting now, start reading the Health & Science Sections of every major newspaper in the country. I used to peruse the websites of Boston Globe, NY times, LA times, Houston Chronicle, etc, about once a week, to read articles about health issues and the latest research. It will really give you the grounding to speak intelligently about a range of medical issues. When I shadowed an attending earlier this year he was so impressed by how much I knew about universal healthcare systems and health issues in general that he offered to call the admissions committee where he's a faculty liason on my behalf. And honestly, I was really just expounding knowledge I loosely got from reading newspapers.
When I met with the admissions office to map out my plan, these were the things they stressed would add to my application:
1) a recent record of academic excellence (especially in science classes)
2) patient contact experience
3) goodwill works (volunteering, experience working with disadvantaged groups)
4) bench or clinical research, the closer to clinical applications the better - for instance, working at a marine biology lab would be less impressive than say a lab working on aids, diabetes, arthritis, etc.
5) a good MCAT, shoot for 11+ on each section
6) physician shadowing
7) experience in a hospital (volunteering, working, shadowing, etc.) this one kind of confused me, but the admissions office said they often notice it when a applicant hasn't had significant time at a hospital. Many applicants feel they've met their patient contact requirements by volunteering at clinics, ER, doctor's offices, nursing homes or being an EMT. But the admissions guys told me that because the bulk of your clinical training as a medical student will be in hospitals they want to know that you've taken the time to do your homework and learned exactly how a hospital works and various roles of different specialties and support staff. One guy put it to me this way, "would you want to accept a guy into the seminary, just because he liked church, hung out with churchgoers, but never actually went to church?"
As far as the sacrifices I made, I took a 40% pay cut to get a secretarial job at a hospital, but used it to segue into a nurse's aide job at a cancer hospital. But that was offset by the tuition benefits which let me take two classes a quarter for free. Had to learn to budget alot better with the little money I'm making now, but I look at it as good practice for during those lean years as a resident and fellow. I've also had to learn to manage my time better (my wife and I still fight about "us" time and our lack of it). It's not just taking pay cuts that hurts. Working full-time while taking classes isn't the only thing on your plate. You have volunteering, studying for the MCAT. I've volunteered at a hospital, been a volunteer research assistant, all while working 40+ hours at a hospital, taking 2 classes a quarter. And still had to find time to shadow physicians and do my own personal research on medical issues and the latest medical research. It ain't easy and every now and then you need to just get away and do something not "medical". I play the guitar, and quite badly I might add, but I love it because it has absolutely nothing to do with my career, and I'm allowed to suck at it.
Oh yeah, here's another tip. Starting now, start reading the Health & Science Sections of every major newspaper in the country. I used to peruse the websites of Boston Globe, NY times, LA times, Houston Chronicle, etc, about once a week, to read articles about health issues and the latest research. It will really give you the grounding to speak intelligently about a range of medical issues. When I shadowed an attending earlier this year he was so impressed by how much I knew about universal healthcare systems and health issues in general that he offered to call the admissions committee where he's a faculty liason on my behalf. And honestly, I was really just expounding knowledge I loosely got from reading newspapers.
wow.. you guys are truly wonderful..! Thank you. 🙂
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2ndchance2dream, I totally admire you for what you are stepping into! I feel as though I am floating in the same boat, in the same rocky sea. I am 31 years old, with a non-science BS degree...working in finance/mortgage for 6 years now, and just started taking math/science prereqs in hopes of making the switch to medicine or pharmacy.
I can relate to the nontrads who feel discouraged and worried...I think, how can I afford this? I am not married (in a relationship, but we have our own money/accounts/bills), no kids, but I do have real life expenses that comes with being in my 30's. I also get discouraged when I think that I won't be finished with school and training until I am around 40..which seems like years away...then again, I plan on working until I am 80! (lol)
But that's why this forum is so awesome...it reminds all of us that we are not alone in this journey!!! 👍
There's been a lot of great advice above 👍
One thing I'd like to add: taking the leap and committing to pursue medicine was more difficult in the beginning for me and got much easier about a year or so into it. Once I *decided* to do it, everything else around me still looked the same. But after a relatively uncomfortable year or so, I had made friends who were on a similar path, had some clinical volunteering, more coursework, and more confidence. It's going to be challenging the entire way, but it gets easier to stay on that path once the momentum starts to build, if that makes sense.
One thing I'd like to add: taking the leap and committing to pursue medicine was more difficult in the beginning for me and got much easier about a year or so into it. Once I *decided* to do it, everything else around me still looked the same. But after a relatively uncomfortable year or so, I had made friends who were on a similar path, had some clinical volunteering, more coursework, and more confidence. It's going to be challenging the entire way, but it gets easier to stay on that path once the momentum starts to build, if that makes sense.
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HI there. I am also a non-trad with a full time job, a wife and 2 kids. When this started to get overwhelming, one day I went in my closet and my wife had put a little homemade sign on the wall...
He who has a WHY to live for can bear almost any HOW. -Nietzche
Well, you DID ask for quotes too.
Good luck.
He who has a WHY to live for can bear almost any HOW. -Nietzche
Well, you DID ask for quotes too.
Good luck.
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These are all awesome tips/advice guys! I've been volunteering for a few months now, but am finally about to take the second step---night classes! I'm a little anxious about it, since I haven't had formal classes in a while, but I'm excited since the ball is finally rolling.
One piece of advice that I've seen numerous times in the nontrad forums is to disregard your age. You'll be (insert age here in 10 years) in 10 years, no matter what you do, so you might as well pursue your dreams in the meantime!
Keep 'em coming guys...
One piece of advice that I've seen numerous times in the nontrad forums is to disregard your age. You'll be (insert age here in 10 years) in 10 years, no matter what you do, so you might as well pursue your dreams in the meantime!
Keep 'em coming guys...
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I'm still working it.
FT job as a nurse tech (more than a CNA less than an LVN I guess..) 12+hr night shifts.
FT classes- over 18 hrs during every semester.. sometimes that means doing minimesters (3 weeks or 8 weeks, etc) while taking traditional semester courses at the same time (ie: Chem 1 Aug-Oct, Chem 2 Oct-Dec, Physics Aug-Dec, Calc Aug-Oct..) or throwing online classes on top of all that.
Every few weekends rotating like a med student through the depts at University Hosp.
Family & child obligations daily. Hourly. Minutely.
Time for myself to pee.
Shan
FT job as a nurse tech (more than a CNA less than an LVN I guess..) 12+hr night shifts.
FT classes- over 18 hrs during every semester.. sometimes that means doing minimesters (3 weeks or 8 weeks, etc) while taking traditional semester courses at the same time (ie: Chem 1 Aug-Oct, Chem 2 Oct-Dec, Physics Aug-Dec, Calc Aug-Oct..) or throwing online classes on top of all that.
Every few weekends rotating like a med student through the depts at University Hosp.
Family & child obligations daily. Hourly. Minutely.
Time for myself to pee.
Shan
