How to match in derm

[ChocolateKiss]

I was hoping someone who is a little further along in the process could answer a few of my questions. Thank you in advance!! Any advice at all would be helpful.

I am an MS1 who will most likely be heading down the dermatology pathway. I know that derm is extremely competitive and want to make sure I am doing everything I can from the beginning to make sure I match in derm.

I know the following are important:
1. board scores
2. clinical grades
3. letter of recommendation
4. research

Is there anything else I should focus on? Any extra-curriculars? Do pre-clinical honors count for much? How important is it to be AOA (if you are coming from a top 5 medical school)? Should research be basic science, or can it be clinical? Is derm research a lot better than any other type?

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[cdql]

I would say extra-curriculars aren't too important (although they may help with getting into AOA depending on your school's requirements)

Pre-clinical honors aren't all too important but it sure looks impressive if you are able to get all honors. (Plus, doing well during your first two years usually pumps up the board score )

I've read somewhere that 50% of those who matched were in AOA. So if I had my pick, I'd definitely try to be on that 50% side.

Also, you'll probably hear different advice from different people regarding research (I would definitely advise asking around for more help in this area...perhaps your dean?). But I would say pick something you're interested in and pick something where you have a good shot of pulling off a publication (90% of those who matched last year had publications)

And lastly, if you want want want to match, I'd suggest donating millions of dollars to furnish the derm wing of your desired hospital site. There are hundreds of kids out there with great board scores, great grades, research, LORS, etc... etc... etc... Luck is pretty important but if you have a couple of extra millions lying around, a donation would certainly help your chances

 

[dynx]

I am an MS1 who will most likely be heading down the dermatology pathway.

Actually, based upon numbers you most likely will not. Our Derm PD said in about 2 or 3 more years they wont be taking anyone without a MD/PHD! For freaking derm! How smart do you have to be to put cream on a rash and cash your checks.

 

[porokeratosis]

Actually, based upon numbers you most likely will not. Our Derm PD said in about 2 or 3 more years they wont be taking anyone without a MD/PHD! For freaking derm! How smart do you have to be to put cream on a rash and cash your checks.

This is a lie! Don't believe this complete non-sense! I'm a Derm resident with only a MD. The rest of my Derm resident coworkers are MD's too (none of them have a PhD).

Some residency programs prefer only MD's because it's a program that participates in clinical research (not basic science) and/or it's a community-based program (no or little emphasis on research).

Other derm residency programs prefer to take some MD/PhD's, especially academic programs with a strong basic science research emphasis. But it is rare for a Derm program to have only MD/PhD residents.

 

[(nicedream)]

This is a lie! Don't believe this complete non-sense! I'm a Derm resident with only a MD. The rest of my Derm resident coworkers are MD's too (none of them have a PhD).

Some residency programs prefer only MD's because it's a program that participates in clinical research (not basic science) and/or it's a community-based program (no or little emphasis on research).

Other derm residency programs prefer to take some MD/PhD's, especially academic programs with a strong basic science research emphasis. But it is rare for a Derm program to have only MD/PhD residents.

Well, he did say in 2 or 3 years, and specified his program. I don't see this as that far-fetched, considering 90% have publications, as cdql pointed out. The demand for derm (among students) is only going to increase.

 

[porokeratosis]

Well, he did say in 2 or 3 years, and specified his program. I don't see this as that far-fetched, considering 90% have publications, as cdql pointed out. The demand for derm (among students) is only going to increase.

You do NOT need a PhD to publish. Obviously, many of the MD's out there published and got accepted into Derm, including myself.

Getting into Derm is not about being a MD/PhD. It's about being motivated to do Derm...and getting great grades, board scores, getting elected to AOA, doing research, publishing, impressing during your derm rotations, as well as praying and getting lucky. Not all MD/PhD's have these excellent stats. And most programs would choose great stats from a MD over a mediocre MD/PhD. Therefore, I don't see dynx's CRAZY prediction happening in 2-3 years time.

Believe who you want. I say it as I see it.

 

[cdql]

I agree with poro: Doubtful that will happen. (But possible)

I should warn you that the 90% number I offered earlier includes any kind of publication. Doesn't have to be a derm publication. Doesn't have to be a basic science research paper. Could have been a simple poster presented at a conference (really pushing the limits of the term publication eh? ) or just case reports.

Southwestern actually pulled that trick a couple of years ago and only interviewed MD/PhD candidates.

Needless to say, it was not a very popular decision!

 

[dynx]

Southwestern actually pulled that trick a couple of years ago and only interviewed MD/PhD candidates.

then why are you so doubtful that my program (1 program NOT all programs) is considering implementing that policy in the next 2 or 3 years?

BTW, an intersting point is demonstrated by Poro's...it seems you do not need to know how to read in order to become a dermatology resident. lets recap:
me: in the next two or three years you may need a PHD
Poro: I DONT HAVE A PHD AND IM A DERM RESIDENT!

Apparently poro is a visitor from the future where this statement would actually be relevant.

 

[porokeratosis]

then why are you so doubtful that my program (1 program NOT all programs) is considering implementing that policy in the next 2 or 3 years?

BTW, an intersting point is demonstrated by Poro's...it seems you do not need to know how to read in order to become a dermatology resident. lets recap:
me: in the next two or three years you may need a PHD
Poro: I DONT HAVE A PHD AND IM A DERM RESIDENT!

Apparently poro is a visitor from the future where this statement would actually be relevant.

Here's you, an OUTSIDER, who's not even in the field of Derm. You're making CRAZY predictions and spreading RUMORS to scare prospective Derm applicants. You're trying to lead them astray. Additionally, you're acting juvenile. Likely because of pure jealousy.

Here's me, an INSIDER accepted into the elite field of Derm, attending a top program in the West Coast. I'm making a point to inform the audience that your statements are ERRONEOUS and NOT representative of many USA Derm residency programs...Nor will it ever be.

Who do you think the people out there are gonna believe?! 'NUFF SAID!

 

[cdql]

then why are you so doubtful that my program (1 program NOT all programs) is considering implementing that policy in the next 2 or 3 years?

It was hugely unpopular. The program (to my knowledge) has discontinued the rather absurd notion of only interviewing MD/PhD students.

As such, I would like to think that your home program isn't silly enough to follow in the footsteps of a flawed/unpopular/youwillcutyourapplicantpoolin1/10th plan.

Hence, my prognosis of doubtful.

 

[dynx]

Here's you, an OUTSIDER, who's not even in the field of Derm. You're making CRAZY predictions and spreading RUMORS to scare prospective Derm applicants. You're trying to lead them astray. Additionally, you're acting juvenile. Likely because of pure jealousy.

Here's me, an INSIDER accepted into the elite field of Derm, attending a top program in the West Coast. I'm making a point to inform the audience that your statements are ERRONEOUS and NOT representative of many USA Derm residency programs...Nor will it ever be.

Who do you think the people out there are gonna believe?! 'NUFF SAID!

Heres you a ***** who cant read. Reading my posts stating clearly something I heard at one single program that you decide is crazy even though it has already happened at another program. I am not spreading rumors. Im not trying to scare anyone. I am indeed acting juvenile. I could probably match derm if I wanted.

Here's me a simple person that thought I would share what I heard. Reading your posts, saying that my post, about a SINGLE derm residency are not representative of MANY derm residency programs and laughing my a$$ off cause you still dont see that your posts dont have anything to do with mine.

Let me spell it out for you...You're talking big picture, im talking about what I heard at one program 2-3 years in the future. I have respect for the smarts and hard work it takes to get to derm, no envy here..if you can do it...more power to you, its a wise decision, just not for me (you however seem to be an idiot).

Who do you think people are gonna believe...Nuff said

 

[dynx]

It was hugely unpopular. The program (to my knowledge) has discontinued the rather absurd notion of only interviewing MD/PhD students.

As such, I would like to think that your home program isn't silly enough to follow in the footsteps of a flawed/unpopular/youwillcutyourapplicantpoolin1/10th plan.

Hence, my prognosis of doubtful.

I agree its absurd. I would like to think my home program would not either, however, seeing some of the absurd **** that the administration does here I lack your confidence. That is all.

 

[dynx]

accepted into the elite field

Highlighted for its toolishness.

 

[ishii123]

Highlighted for its toolishness.

From reading this post, I think "dynx" is the true ***** and tool. His use of many cuss words in his posts and inflammatory nature just goes to show you what a jerk he really is.

One word describes "dynx": Troll!

 

[dynx]

From reading this post, I think "dynx" is the true ***** and tool. His use of many cuss words in his posts and inflammatory nature just goes to show you what a jerk he really is.

One word describes "dynx": Troll!

damn! did my sig give me away? Or was it when i admitted I was being juvenile? Your detective skills are UNBELIEVABLE! You sir have a fantastic future in derm ahead of you.

ps. Im still right.

 

[ChocolateKiss]

OK, so now that we've settled the MD vs. MD/PhD thing (well, not really settled I guess, but at least hashed out), does anyone have any advice or answers to my original questions?

 

[jocg27]

OK, so now that we've settled the MD vs. MD/PhD thing (well, not really settled I guess, but at least hashed out), does anyone have any advice or answers to my original questions?

I think you should consider getting a PhD.

Since soon programs will only take MD/PhDs.

 

[ChocolateKiss]

Ha ha ha. If only I wanted to spend 8 years in med school rather than 4...

 

[oompa loompa]

hey, I'm also a first year interested in matching into Derm, both for personal interest and b/c it seems to come with one of the more agreeable MD lifestyles.

I just had my first set of midterms, and passed by a slight margin (high 70s and low 80s on my exams)...apparently our year is full of gunners, and thus I'm actually in the bottom half of the class right now . Anyway, I'm hoping to change my study habits a bit and maybe raise my grades, but it is doubtful that I will get Honors...should I just forget about Derm and go into the least competitive specialty since clearly, I'm an idiot compared to most of my classmates?

 

[(nicedream)]

hey, I'm also a first year interested in matching into Derm, both for personal interest and b/c it seems to come with one of the more agreeable MD lifestyles.

I just had my first set of midterms, and passed by a slight margin (high 70s and low 80s on my exams)...apparently our year is full of gunners, and thus I'm actually in the bottom half of the class right now . Anyway, I'm hoping to change my study habits a bit and maybe raise my grades, but it is doubtful that I will get Honors...should I just forget about Derm and go into the least competitive specialty since clearly, I'm an idiot compared to most of my classmates?

Did you study really hard for the tests? It's not so much that your preclinical grades would rule you out (although classrank is more important in derm than in less competitive specialties), but that you'll have to do extremely well on boards.

 

[oompa loompa]

Did you study really hard for the tests? It's not so much that your preclinical grades would rule you out (although classrank is more important in derm than in less competitive specialties), but that you'll have to do extremely well on boards.

ahhh, class rank. I forgot about that...if my current trend continues, it doesn't look like I'll match into derm. I felt like I studied a lot for the exams, but honestly, I was just passively absorbing the material...I didn't do much else except read my notes, and even then, I was selectively studying material and going way in depth into certain topics of personal interest, which really hurt me because we have 4 questions per hour of lecture, so there is equal emphasis on all topics. Now that I understand this, hopefully I'll do better on tests.

So, I guess the take-home point is, grades for your first two years DO matter for derm residency? I'm actually not terribly worried about boards, b/c I've always done better on standardized tests than class grades would predict. But yeah, class rank will be a problem for me. Sigh. Looks like I can't be satisfied with just passing. Of course, my other top choice is psychiatry, which should be much easier to match into, right? I relaly don't care about the location of my residency...it could be in North Dakota, for all I care. Hopefully, that'll make it easier for me to get into a derm or psych residency?

 

[cdql]

I've always heard that 3rd year grades are more important. That being said, I wouldn't blow years 1 and 2 either as doing well in those classes usually translates into being able to do well on your boards.

 

[(nicedream)]

ahhh, class rank. I forgot about that...if my current trend continues, it doesn't look like I'll match into derm. I felt like I studied a lot for the exams, but honestly, I was just passively absorbing the material...I didn't do much else except read my notes, and even then, I was selectively studying material and going way in depth into certain topics of personal interest, which really hurt me because we have 4 questions per hour of lecture, so there is equal emphasis on all topics. Now that I understand this, hopefully I'll do better on tests.

So, I guess the take-home point is, grades for your first two years DO matter for derm residency? I'm actually not terribly worried about boards, b/c I've always done better on standardized tests than class grades would predict. But yeah, class rank will be a problem for me. Sigh. Looks like I can't be satisfied with just passing. Of course, my other top choice is psychiatry, which should be much easier to match into, right? I relaly don't care about the location of my residency...it could be in North Dakota, for all I care. Hopefully, that'll make it easier for me to get into a derm or psych residency?

Don't get down on yourself one exam into your career - you're in the infancy of your education, plenty of time to improve. Psych is a cakewalk by the way - opposite end of spectrum from derm.