How to pick Med School for Rad Onc?

[jerew]

Hello All!

I am looking for some advice on how to pick a medical school, given that I am strongly leaning towards radiation oncology. I know it's early to pick a specialty, but as a grad student in physics, I think it's fair to believe I may actually end up going this route.

At any rate, I had a few questions if anyone would be interested in fielding them:

1) How much does the strength of the rad onc program of your home med school matter in terms of matching into a strong residency? I have heard MS4s respond everywhere between "not at all" to "incredible important."

2) If it does matter, might anyone have opinions on how to sort out some of these med schools: U Chicago, UCSF, Michigan, Northwestern, Mayo, Duke, Hopkins, Wash U, Cornell, Columbia, or others along those lines (this is just my basic list)? I'm trying to get a jump on picking a med school, as I have a few acceptances in hand at some of these places.

3) I'm on the fence about MD/PhD, and may consider transferring in to the MD/PhD at whatever med school I go to. Any thoughts on where this may work best, if my goal was rad onc? (I noticed Chicago is very open to transferring in, and they have a great med physics PhD and rad onc program from what I have heard.)

Thanks so much in advance! My fellow future med students and I would love any advice on how to get where you are!

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[Gfunk6]

1) How much does the strength of the rad onc program of your home med school matter in terms of matching into a strong residency? I have heard MS4s respond everywhere between "not at all" to "incredible important."

Incredibly important, but not the be-all-end-all.

2) If it does matter, might anyone have opinions on how to sort out some of these med schools: U Chicago, UCSF, Michigan, Northwestern, Mayo, Duke, Hopkins, Wash U, Cornell, Columbia, or others along those lines (this is just my basic list)? I'm trying to get a jump on picking a med school, as I have a few acceptances in hand at some of these places.

IMO, in terms of Rad Onc strength,

Michigan = UCSF > U Chicago = Wash U > Hopkins > Duke = Mayo >> Cornell/Columbia = Northwestern

You'll note that this is very different from the relative strength of these med schools overall, which should be much more relevant to you IMO.

3) I'm on the fence about MD/PhD, and may consider transferring in to the MD/PhD at whatever med school I go to. Any thoughts on where this may work best, if my goal was rad onc? (I noticed Chicago is very open to transferring in, and they have a great med physics PhD and rad onc program from what I have heard.)

Best to direct this question to the Physician Scientist Forum.

Also, here are some threads where this topic has been re-hashed.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=606177
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=516941
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=271241

 

[koolaidkid]

If your big goal is radiation oncology, you'd typically want to go to a medical school where: 1) there is a department, 2) they do research, 3) they like to mentor.

I'd probably go by what the "rad onc rankings" are for a department in order to assess the strength of that department.

However, there's plenty of people from smaller institutions (without residency programs or departmnets) who do enough away rotations/research electives that things pan out.

However, I would strongly advise against choosing your medical school based strictly upon its strength in radiation oncology. For example, MD Anderson is affiliated with UT-Houston, but much of its other departments are not as strong. Similarly, Columbia may not have a great radiation oncology program now, but it's stellar in many other areas such as medicine and surgery.

I think the fact that you are even CONSIDERING radiation oncology at this stage puts you ahead of the curve. I would spend my time instead trying to find something you are even more passionate about at a well-rounded, high-caliber medical school. It's possible you may fall in love with orthopedics, cardiology, or neurosurgery (or maybe even derm). If you pretty much can rule everything else out, you'll go into the match much more comfortable with your choice.

Going to a place like Columbia/Cornell, doing well (hey you can rotate & do research at Sloan-kettering) is probably going to serve you very well, though the individual rad onc departments are not that strong.

All in all, I think that it's important for you to choose medical school based on where you think you'll be happy and where you think you might thrive. It's a tough 4 years (7-8 for MSTP).

 

[jerew]

Thanks for the help! I imagine an analogy can be drawn between undergraduate school selection and strength of the graduate department: you're going to be taking so many other courses that the overall strength is a larger factor (as opposed to the focused grad student/resident).

I guess what it comes down to for me is finding a better way to distinguish between the schools I could chose from. "Overall strength" is a tough thing to feel out, so I was thinking that getting a hold on the strength of certain departments might be a smart way to add some data to my decision. It'll be a bit until my decision in May, but I just wanted the head start! I may be back in April with a final list if anyone would like to opine.

 

[EChipouras]

I agree with the advice given thus far..go with a school that is strong overall.

However, there are many schools like this, so between those, I would consider going to the school with the best RadOnc program. For example, Hopkins is a great overall school and has a great radonc program. Columbia is a great school and is affiliated with MSK which is great in cancer. Baylor is a great school and is affiliated with MD Anderson, which is the best in cancer...so my advice would be to pick a school like that.

 

[jerew]

Thanks for the help so far! I am doing a mid-application season bump with questions on opportunities out of these schools that I am accepted to and considering:

Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Cornell, Michigan, Wash U, and U Chicago.

I suppose I have a few thoughts/questions regarding these schools and rad onc, and I was hoping someone with more knowledge would like to opine.

1) Johns Hopkins and Wash U are very strong overall, and this would be helpful in matching into rad onc. Cornell, Chicago and Michigan are also strong, but have (if you include MSK) very strong rad onc programs from what I gather on this forum and elsewhere. If my goal were rad onc, would it be better to go with good med+great rad onc (Chicago, etc) or great med+good rad onc (Hopkins, WashU)?

2) I left Mayo out because I'm still figuring them out. Their match list is good overall, but doesn't look like many people choose rad onc. I also wonder if there would be any noticeable difference in applying out of Mayo v. Hopkins. You may know better than I what type of rad onc research happens at Mayo, and if this is a good place as a med student to train for this goal, given the other choices. I love basic science (less done at Mayo) but have yet to try clinical research (Mayo's specialty?).

I'm really looking for any thoughts/information. I know the suggestion is go where you will be happy, but I know I will be most happy where I will have the best opportunities for my goals i.e. I have things I love/hate about each place in terms of non-academic factors, and I could see myself being happy in midwest, east etc. Also, pretend cost is even across the board. In April-May, I'll make the judgement call on how much money I am willing to pay/not pay to go somewhere--I am just trying to sort on non-money merits alone first and I'll cross that bridge later.

 

[Gfunk6]

If all you care about is Rad Onc to the exclusion of everything else AND you are a basic science person then you would be well served at either Michigan or Chicago. Hopkins and WashU (Halahan is chair now) would also be great choices but my personal bias would be for the first two.

 

[deleted4401]

I think the number of students from those schools that didn't match into rad-onc approaches nil, selecting out for social misfits/serial killer-types. I think you will be safe by going to a place like Hopkins, lousy as it's radonc department is. Kidding. Holy crap. This field is crazy, all the pre-meditation going on. We have high school and undergraduate kids doing research in our department. The other day I think I saw a 12 year old doing a chart review.
S

 

[Ionized]

This "arms race" going into radiation oncology is ridiculous. The selection pressure fostering the attitude of "if you're not academic then you're nothing," is just absurd. Something like 90% of rad onc graduates go into private practice. We need doctors who see patients and apply the great discoveries facilitated by the academicians. It's kinda sad that SDN propagates this "academic or failure" mentality for rad onc as well.

 

[jerew]

This "arms race" going into radiation oncology is ridiculous. The selection pressure fostering the attitude of "if you're not academic then you're nothing," is just absurd. Something like 90% of rad onc graduates go into private practice. We need doctors who see patients and apply the great discoveries facilitated by the academicians. It's kinda sad that SDN propagates this "academic or failure" mentality for rad onc as well.

What do you mean by "arms race?" Is this to say that the culture is that you somehow must go to a top academic rad-onc residency, as opposed to a less "famous" one that will still give the same clinical training?

I am mostly interesting in going somewhere that will give me the best options. If anyone had any comments on Mayo rad-onc, or a Mayo med student's prospect at rad-onc research/opportunities/match success, I would be most interested. I am trying to figure out if the great overall quality of the residency programs and hospitals at Mayo would serve me well as a med student, or if this should be less what I should be concerned about, as opposed to the "school" itself (where Hopkins, Michigan etc are particularly well known and have a much longer history of training med students).

I'm also glad someone here thinks it wouldn't be crazy or even ill-advised to head to Chicago over Hopkins for what I want to do (I know Chicago will be cheaper).

 

[GoodmanBrown]

If I can hop in for a second, how big a deal is it to go to a school that's unranked and doesn't have a rad onc department? (MDApps at left if interested in specifics.)

For personal reasons, I might end up making a choice between a top 25 with a good sized rad onc department vs. a smaller, unranked, no-rad-onc department school. Thoughts?

 

[Tigerstang]

If I can hop in for a second, how big a deal is it to go to a school that's unranked and doesn't have a rad onc department? (MDApps at left if interested in specifics.)

For personal reasons, I might end up making a choice between a top 25 with a good sized rad onc department vs. a smaller, unranked, no-rad-onc department school. Thoughts?

Not having a home department will put you at a disadvantage when applying for residency, but if you are a strong candidate otherwise you can make up for this with away rotations.