How to remember everything a patient says?

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MedStudent219

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Hi, Just wondering how one would go about memorising all the things a patient says during a medical history? I am not sure if we're meant to write anything down because isn't that not giving your full attention to the patient? I have heard that some very experienced clinicians don't usually write anything down until they finish everything but is there a way they memorise so much? Am I just finding it difficult to memorise everyhting because I might not have experience with every system of the body? Any help or tips is appreciated. Thanks everyone :)

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Hi, Just wondering how one would go about memorising all the things a patient says during a medical history? I am not sure if we're meant to write anything down because isn't that not giving your full attention to the patient? I have heard that some very experienced clinicians don't usually write anything down until they finish everything but is there a way they memorise so much? Am I just finding it difficult to memorise everyhting because I might not have experience with every system of the body? Any help or tips is appreciated. Thanks everyone :)
Its easier when you understand the clinical picture. Experienced people from my understanding just compartmentalize patients. Its easy to remember that the patient with the stroke had a fib and is on warfarin or that the vasculopath smokes like a chimney. These are obv simple pictures but you can extrapolate.
Also good advice i received was the more you try to remember details the harder it becomes to remember the important things.
 
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If I’ve learned anything on SDN, the solution is to just make anki cards on everything they’re saying during the encounter and do 1000 reviews before presenting to the attending.

There’s like zero flaws in this plan.
 
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Write it down. More at first; it’ll be easier to remember with just the pertinent info written down as you get better. Not sure past that; I don’t have that high of skill yet.
 
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People are **** at remembering their histories. I write the note based on the chart because no one seems to know why they're on any of their 10 medications.
 
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Write that ish down. We're too stupid to remember stuff cause we're thinking of basic stuff like what the p stands for in opqrst
 
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People are **** at remembering their histories. I write the note based on the chart because no one seems to know why they're on any of their 10 medications.
I resignedly look forward to the day when I am able to actually answer when they ask "metforprololmin? Is that the little yellow one I take at night or the big white one?"
 
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I am not sure if we're meant to write anything down because isn't that not giving your full attention to the patient? I have heard that some very experienced clinicians don't usually write anything down until they finish everything but is there a way they memorise so much? Am I just finding it difficult to memorise everyhting because I might not have experience with every system of the body? Any help or tips is appreciated. Thanks everyone :)

1: you’re not an MD, you haven’t had the training or the acumen to know which of the things the patient says you should commit to memory and what is fluff

2: you’re a medical student, your one job on the floors is to take the most detailed history as possible because you’re carrying 3 patients on average, meaning you have as much time as possible to spend with the patient

3: pen and paper with zero details of the HPI missed > stumbling over your words trying to remember what the patient said because you thought that not writing it down would impress your attending
 
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Probably the same way that waitstaff at a restaurant remember what everyone at the table ordered. Some people do it well with memorizing, through experience. Some people write everything down cus they know they will forget. Some people think they remember and then don’t write it down and make a ton of mistakes.

I usually jot down notes I think are important and do the things I think I might forget right there in the room. I’ve honed a system that works okay for me. It’s a learning process though- so if you find yourself not giving too much attention to the patient you can always say “hold up let me make sure I have this right, I might have to jot some things down.” Which patients usually appreciate.
 
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I almost always take notes. But the amount of notes I take has decreased significantly over the past few years. I used to write down everything. Now I just write the little things that will help me remember the patient well enough in 2 hours to write the note.
 
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Look at the vitals. Then look at the meds. Diagnose PMH and possible reasons for the visit from the meds to guide your semi-closed questioning. If you think this patient might possibly not be A&Ox4 from vitals and meds alone, call the primary caretaker (the person who drives them to the doctor or keeps all the paperwork) and get most of the HPI from them. Half of what the patient says has absolutely no relationship to why they need to be in the hospital instead of taking their antibiotics at home or dealing with their chronic issues. Can you tell I deal with altered mental status and dementia a lot?

You can go down the rabbit holes pretty deep with some patients, but none of that has to be in your actual note. Ask the detailed questions until you're comfortable enough to exclude the extraneous.
 
Hi, Just wondering how one would go about memorising all the things a patient says during a medical history? I am not sure if we're meant to write anything down because isn't that not giving your full attention to the patient? I have heard that some very experienced clinicians don't usually write anything down until they finish everything but is there a way they memorise so much? Am I just finding it difficult to memorise everyhting because I might not have experience with every system of the body? Any help or tips is appreciated. Thanks everyone :)
You know how when you're trying to remember something, rephrasing it and repeating it back to yourself is helpful? Well, that's still true, only now you pretend you're doing the patient a favor with it and preface it with "OK, I just want to make sure I have everything, tell me if there's anything you want to add...[writes rudimentary HPI in head]...so you were standing on a street corner, minding your own business..."
 
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If I’ve learned anything on SDN, the solution is to just make anki cards on everything they’re saying during the encounter and do 1000 reviews before presenting to the attending.

There’s like zero flaws in this plan.

You've really made my day/week/year.
 
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Hi, Just wondering how one would go about memorising all the things a patient says during a medical history? I am not sure if we're meant to write anything down because isn't that not giving your full attention to the patient? I have heard that some very experienced clinicians don't usually write anything down until they finish everything but is there a way they memorise so much? Am I just finding it difficult to memorise everyhting because I might not have experience with every system of the body? Any help or tips is appreciated. Thanks everyone :)

It is true that over time, your brain gets better trained to make a good H&P out of what the pt word vomits, and to remember the salient points you need.

As a med student, and to this day, I use white coat clipboard to take notes. I sewed a special pocket to fit it as a med student, as a resident it just fit in the pocket as is.

Anything I write by hand I remember best, even without looking. Less so on the computer.

Here's the thing about clipboard/notepad vs EHR use re: patient feelings.

From standardized patient feedback as well as in practice, I was frequently complimented FOR using a clipboard. Why? Many patients expect you to take notes based on prior experience, and usually they see docs doing this on computer (some docs don't do all of the above, obvs). But they liked the clipboard approach more.

Studies have shown how much patients hate you being on a computer. Many reasons. Clipboard is less of a physical obstacle between you and the patient, easier to maintain intermittent eye contact, and to have your body language oriented in a way that has been scientifically shown to indicate interest in communication. Namely, eye contact, having your body directed towards the patient, and leaning in.

I won't say there is evidence for the idea that patients seeing you write down what they say, by hand as above, which may be taken as a sign of interest in what they are saying, as superior to you working on a computer screen. However, I have had patients say that taking notes made it seem like I was more intently listening than had I not used it at all. Ie, they preferred the clipboard approach overall. I won't say using a clipboard is superior to not using one per the evidence, I will say that it is clearly superior to using a computer imho. Ipads and the like used as a notetaking not typing device may serve a similar function.

All this is to say, I would highly encourage you to take notes, but to avoid using a computer while a patient is talking to you.

I have more ideas to describe how to do this efficiently.

TLDR:
Basically, I think taking notes is appropriate as you need at any point in training. I think there are better and worse ways to do this as far as how patients perceive this. Some argue this will create a dependence on note taking, that if you don't take notes, you will teach yourself not to need it. What is most important is that you get the job done safely and efficiently no matter your method.
 
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I can share my templates for pre-rounding on computer, pre-rounding seeing the patient SOAP (chiefly their complaints that am, and PE which I always forgot, so I made a very easy way to notate as I went), and H&P hand note taking template. Also a schedule and system to pre round and see all pts and be on time.

I feel like a very slow, plodding, forgetful person, and the specialty I chose demands a lot of details and more speed than people appreciate at times. The marriage of my ineptness and the need for efficiency led to a system I found essential. A lot of people will find it unnecessary and would slow them down. But it isn't for the speedy folk it's for the weak people who are drowning needing to improve a lot. I won't flood the thread more than this but if I get responses I am more than happy to share or if you want in another thread for it.
 
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After watching the better attendings I caught on. They listened. They were completely engaged as if no one else mattered. Eye contact was piercing, body language was completely open and said, “I am here for you” and leaning in would assure most hurting patients. Their gentle smiles were golden. Then they would ask me about what I saw between the patient and the physician. I saw great medical care, empathy to the Nth degree and a patient centered encounter. Today I think about them during patient contacts and try to be as good as them. Listen. It is a lost skill in our current culture of rage and apoplexy.

it takes time, OP, but just be truly present for your patients and practice active listening skills. Flick away at any squirrel that tries to get your attention. Watch the masters around you and learn from them
This 100%.
 
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