How would you do this induction?

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There is no right or wrong answer to your anesthestic choice for this patient. I chose SAB because I have the peer reviewed evidence and experience to back up that decision.
 
Are you still with the same group? Sounds like a terrible set-up.

First you get the dump in the OR without notice.

Then the CT guy dumps on you.

Then one of your partners takes a dump on you. He (along with anyone else who happened to get involved) should have stood by you 100%. To me, this is inexcusable. Members and partners need to stay cohesive in these type of situations.



I have to put food on the table somehow. I only work here cause of family. There were no other hospitals in the area hiring unless I wanted an ambulatory center. I just keep my mouth shut and do my job and earn a salary. Luckily, most days aren't this stressful.
 
Great discussion, and I appreciate the input very much. Here's how it went down...

I discussed in plain language the possibility of cardiac arrest / death during the operation and subsequently on the floor. They understood and realized this was a high-risk situation.

My first choice was a carefully titrated epidural, but for obvious reasons, this was not practical. I opted instead for a light GA with an LMA. I placed a pre-induction a-line (thank god) and induced using lidocaine, propofol and a smidge of fentanyl (12.5 mcg). I chose phenylephrine as my pressor because I reasoned it would adequately counteract the vasodilation of the propofol and with any luck, I'd keep her at baseline. I also use it a lot more on a daily basis. I did have epi (10 mcg/ml) immediately available. I gave the propofol in 10 mg boluses and waited knowing she had a slow circ time. At 40 mg of prop, she began to drop -- like a rock. I began pushing phenylephrine but with no effect. I emptied 1500 mcg and watched the pressure fall -- to ZERO. PEA arrest. As it became clear she was going to arrest I called for backup and when her a-line flattened out (no change in rhythm) we began compressions. By this time I had pushed a 50 mcg of epi and after about 30 seconds of vigorous compressions, we had a perfusing rhythm. We thought about it and decided to proceed with the case knowing her PA pressures and her heart were no going to improve, especially after her PEA arrest. We relaxed her, changed the LMA to an ETT, lined her up and did the case. As the case went on she developed significant ST depressions which we really couldn't do much about given she was now on a levophed gtt.

We took her upstairs to the unit and the family withdrew on her the next day!!! WTF??!!

I think what happened is this: unbeknownst to me, my CRNA had slipped her 1 mg of midazolam in the HOLDING area. Holy **** was I pissed when I found out that. But because I'm the MD, the responsibility lays with me, not her -- and I wouldn't have that any other way. It was my fault for not controlling her more effectively. She undoubtedly hypoventilated from the versed. She also likely hypoventilated during the induction: given we were pushing the prop slowly and she was spontaneously breathing the whole time, we never effectively ventilated her. This caused her PaCO2 to increase and her PVR to follow suit, effectively stopping forward flow. This exacerbated the hypotension from the propofol and mitigated the effect of the pressors -- and presto - PEA!!

What really ended up helping her to maintain a perfusing rhythm (in addition to the compressions) was effective ventilation.

Lessons learned (for the residents reading this):

1) Respect pulmonary HTN. Hypercarbia, acidosis, hypotension and hypoxia can kill patients with severe pulmonary HTN.

2) Midazolam is not a benign drug that EVERYONE gets prior to surgery. Evaluate on a case-by-case basis. See above.

3) Control your CRNAs. Be a jerk if necessary. This can be tough to do, but it can be a matter of life and death.

4) Rule #1: The patient is the one with the disease (Read "House of God" if you don't know what I'm talking about)

5) Special thanks to the guys for discussion FI blocks. I've never done one, but they don't sound too tough with a little reading and watching video.

Cheers!

The best part of this entire post is how you make it seem this whole thing went down hill over 1mg of versed. Sorry, but no. Did you notice the patient has mod-sev MR with severe TR??? You think giving the patient over one stick of phenylephrine could have caused your worsening picture after induction or perhaps the use of propofol? No, you choose to blame someone else for "starting" the problem. While 1mg of versed can be detrimental to hemodynamics your propofol induction and the use of phenylephrine led to your downfall way more than that 1mg of versed.

And while I know everyone here will not agree with me because I'm not a MD it should be very clear to know this was a poor anesthetic choice for a patient this sick.
 
The best part of this entire post is how you make it seem this whole thing went down hill over 1mg of versed. Sorry, but no. Did you notice the patient has mod-sev MR with severe TR??? You think giving the patient over one stick of phenylephrine could have caused your worsening picture after induction or perhaps the use of propofol? No, you choose to blame someone else for "starting" the problem. While 1mg of versed can be detrimental to hemodynamics your propofol induction and the use of phenylephrine led to your downfall way more than that 1mg of versed.

And while I know everyone here will not agree with me because I'm not a MD it should be very clear to know this was a poor anesthetic choice for a patient this sick.

👎

Who the F@*K are you to be saying anything? The kind of people who posted what you just did are THE most dangerous kind of providers. You sound very sure of yourself for not being an anesthesiologist.

Gasguy 06 was kind enough to share his experience and I thank him again for his post as it has stimulated a great thread.

Go troll someplace else.
 
This forum isn't meant for finger pointing... it is meant to be a collaborative process where individuals share ideas. Anesthesia is a specialty where a particular case can be done a lot of different ways.

Learn to be a team player, you'll always be the big ugly elephant in the room if you are not.
 
This forum isn't meant for finger pointing... it is meant to be a collaborative process where individuals share ideas. Anesthesia is a specialty where a particular case can be done a lot of different ways.

Learn to be a team player, you'll always be the big ugly elephant in the room if you are not.

I totally agree. But from looking at this forum if this post and that plan was made by someone who was a CRNA or AA you would tear into them for it and say how stupid it would be. I was merely pointing out the fact that he made it seem like the versed started this downward spiral of events when in fact many other things contributed to it. I definitely think the thread started up a good conversation, but you guys will find anything to blame a CRNA for your mistakes and it was proven in this thread.
 
I totally agree. But from looking at this forum if this post and that plan was made by someone who was a CRNA or AA you would tear into them for it and say how stupid it would be. I was merely pointing out the fact that he made it seem like the versed started this downward spiral of events when in fact many other things contributed to it. I definitely think the thread started up a good conversation, but you guys will find anything to blame a CRNA for your mistakes and it was proven in this thread.

If you can't recognize the significance of midazolam induced hypoventilation and hypercarbia you aren't ready2bdone.
 
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