Howard vs VCOM

[Dorcas]

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Hello!

I'd love to receive feedback about what people's thoughts are about going to Howard vs. VCOM for school. I'm in the midst of having to make a final decision soon but don't really have a clear direction. I'm from the DC area, which would make Howard certainly easier to transition, but my impression from the interview was a bit tainted. The staff didn't seem very friendly or organized compared to the VCOM staff and VCOM's facility was more up-to-date. I'm on the fence between MD/DO as well since OMM sounds really interesting but based on my research it seems DOs can have a harder time getting into competitive residency positions. I've heard mixed reviews about the education at Howard and although the interview info from VCOM sounds nice, its still a relatively new school. Could people let me know their thoughts on the schools specifically as well as the differences of DO/MDs in the real world for someone who isn't interested in general practice (thus a speciality). Thanks!

 

[bioman2006]

.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Vcom.

 

[Tybalt1]

I shadowed a cardiologist that graduated from PCOM. He said as far as experiencing any biases against DOs, they weren't really there. He graduated in the 70s as well, so he's had plenty of experience.

 

[Bacchus]

Tybalt, he came from a well-established school. PCOM students, from my limited knowledge, aren't questioned about their training in a negative way.

That all said, I had to choose between PCOM and VCOM. The choice you have to make here is location. Blacksburg is much different than the District of Columbia. I could see no "faults" with VCOM when I interviewed besides their OMM setup. I didn't like the sequesteration of a few students to a room linked to "central command" by a plasma TV and two way mics. That might be an oversimplification/wrong but thats what I got from it when we were given a tour. VCOM's anatomy lab is the Cadillac of anatomy labs. I was really impressed. I wish PCOM had the same setup. But, in your choice, like I said, location is going to be the biggest determining factor [in my opinion]. VCOM's graduates have held their own despite the school being relatively new. The matchlists coming out of their demonstrate so. Good luck, and my vote would be for VCOM.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Go to Howard, I can't believe guys are telling you to attend VCOM when they would actually attend Howard in a second over VCOM.

 

[Bacchus]

I would not attend Howard. I would not live in DC. Also, Howard isn't for everyone. I'm not sure of the demographics of the medical school but the undergrad is predominantly African American. Some people may not be comfortable with that atmosphere. Of course, to each his own.

 

[bioman2006]

/

 

[esk1137]

Go to Howard, I can't believe guys are telling you to attend VCOM when they would actually attend Howard in a second over VCOM.

I would not go to Howard. I would absolutely choose VCOM between the two.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Wow being uncomfortable with a bunch a blacks. That's a new one on me. 🙄

 

[beerog2003]

You are from DC, so you know the demographics of DC. Just like you I applied to and was accepted to both VCOM and Howard. You specifically mention specialties and not general practice. I have seen the match list at VCOM and it is impressive and had I not gotten into Howard then I would be going to VCOM.

You have to be careful how you take responses from people. Everyone's preferences will be different however you mentioned matching into specialties. Keep in mind that if you decide to go to VCOM you will be able to match into every specialty, and you will receive excellent training. That being said, if it is your goal to match into some ivy league neurosurgical program then I would say Howard is your best option.

I have read extensively about this and have shadowed both MDs and DOs, and there are examples of DOs who are in highly ranked allo. programs so spare me the flaming.

Matching into competitive specialties is an uphill battle either way so in most cases it is a toss up and either school will get you where you want to go. The biggest difference comes in if you want to match into 'ivy league' allo. programs. If this is not your desire, then go to the school where you will thrive.

Either way, congrats and hope to see you in the Fall!

 

[Bacchus]

Wow being uncomfortable with a bunch a blacks. That's a new one on me. 🙄

I don't know what you're trying to say. I said the atmosphere. The cultural diversity, or lack there of, may contribute to a negative atmosphere for people. Does it have to? Absolutely not. But for some it may. Its a valid point and something people do consider. If not, the application numbers would obviously be higher.

 

[jojoshabadoo]

I don't know what you're trying to say. I said the atmosphere. The cultural diversity, or lack there of, may contribute to a negative atmosphere for people. Does it have to? Absolutely not. But for some it may. Its a valid point and something people do consider. If not, the application numbers would obviously be higher.

Uh he's saying your comment sounded pretty prejudiced, and no one calls philly "the delph" go back to hayseed country

 

[beerog2003]

I don't know what you're trying to say. I said the atmosphere. The cultural diversity, or lack there of, may contribute to a negative atmosphere for people. Does it have to? Absolutely not. But for some it may. Its a valid point and something people do consider. If not, the application numbers would obviously be higher.

Bacchus while I somewhat agree with the point you are trying to make about diversity. I don't think that VCOM gets more applications than Howard. I did give away my MSAR book though so I will not quote numbers. However, Howard gets a lot more applications than many other schools.

Also, DC has arguably a lot more cultural diversity than Blacksburg. Not much to argue there.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I don't know what you're trying to say. I said the atmosphere. The cultural diversity, or lack there of, may contribute to a negative atmosphere for people. Does it have to? Absolutely not. But for some it may. Its a valid point and something people do consider. If not, the application numbers would obviously be higher.

Is it hard if you're not African American to be accepted into Howard?

 

[Bacchus]

I'm saying Howard might get more applications. I'm not comparing them. And of course DC will have more diversity overall.

 

[Bacchus]

Is it hard if you're not African American to be accepted into Howard?

No. I wouldn't think so.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Uh he's saying your comment sounded pretty prejudiced, and no one calls philly "the delph" go back to hayseed country

<<<< I'm a SHE!!!!😀 And yes that's what I meant by my comment. Howard is a HISTORICALLY FOUNDED BLACK INSTITUTION which doesn't translate to they only accept black students although many people believe that to be the case.

Bacchus, the way you worded your statement sounded like you were saying that some people might not want to go to a school where there are more blacks students sitting in the classroom than white students. Maybe you didn't mean it that way but that's how it sounded and as you can see I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Obviously, the OP doesn't have a problem with going to school with a "bunch of blacks" or a non culturally diverse medical school or he wouldn't have applied there. IMO, there isn't really any culturally diverse medical schools when its all said and done, but that's just how the world spins.

 

[MossPoh]

Bacchus's statement about the student population just came out wrong I think. I understand what the gist of it was. It can be a bit of a culture shock for some people to end up at a historically black institution. I have lots of friends at FAMU (historically black) and have trained at their facilities with them. It was a completely different atmosphere than my other schools. Not bad....just different. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit, but I like to put myself into situations and grow a bit.

As far as deciding between the schools, its just up to you. I have a great fondness for VT and blacksburg. I love the nature and I loved the school. The only thing that kept me from going there was a failed physical for corp of cadets and a different major than I wanted at the time. I know some good docs from Howard. Just up to you.

 

[phospho]

Wow being uncomfortable with a bunch a blacks. That's a new one on me. 🙄

I can't believe you would even think that his comment said anything like that.

There are multiple threads about African Americans being uncomfortable with going to schools that are predominantly white (just take a look at one of the most recent threads on the minority forum). They feel weird being one of the few black people that are there. Is it fair to think that they are uncomfortable with white people? That's pretty much how you judged Baccus.

Frankly, I wouldn't go to Howard because it is predominantly black. I do not want to feel like I'm only one of the few white people there. In no way should that make me a racist. ANYONE would feel uncomfortable being only one of the few white/black/hispanic/asian people there.

 

[AMEHigh]

I would not attend Howard. I would not live in DC. Also, Howard isn't for everyone. I'm not sure of the demographics of the medical school but the undergrad is predominantly African American. Some people may not be comfortable with that atmosphere. Of course, to each his own.

Seriously? What about the atmosphere makes it uncomfortable....because there are a bunch of Black people? Last time I checked many medical schools aren't diverse, as in they are predominantly White. Are you uncomfortable with that too?

 

[Makati2008]

That seemed to be a little on the "racial" side from the poster.... But no matter. If it was me I would go to Howard as well(I am black) if that is what you really feel. You honestly have to go somewhere where you will get through medical school with good STEP/COMLEX scores.

Sadly, you will deal with the other person's remark(who is about a 2 (10 being the worst) on the malignant scale because of her/his underlying subtle fears of race...) a lot in medical school from different people due to a similar sentiment. Believe me, I faced it at my professional school a LOT where I was like one of maybe 40 on the campus.

To put it in perspective for you, I had an interview at a medical school last year so the night before I went to my interview site early(the night before as I always do to search out the area and get a feel for it.). Well as I was walking on campus I noticed all of the strange stares that I was recieving and I even saw one young woman come out of the dorm and she saw me her eyes got HUGE and she ran back into the dorm and just looked out the glass door at me as I passed.....(I am far from a thug so please don't go there). And yet I still wanted to go there before I fell in love with LMU-DCOM.


As for Bacchus(which I apologize for calling you a him/her but I have seen a guys pic on your profile as well so I don't know if that was you or not),
I wouldn't let that person treat my family with her underlying sentiment. I see it from attendings a lot.......

To the OP, you will face MUCH worse in medical school no matter where you go.(Whether it be in class or during 3rd/4th year)
Just my $00.02

 

[phospho]

Seriously? What about the atmosphere makes it uncomfortable....because there are a bunch of Black people? Last time I checked many medical schools aren't diverse, as in they are predominantly White. Are you uncomfortable with that too?

so, is this black person who's wondering if they will be one of the few people in their class ALSO a racist?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=627195

What about this black dude who is having trouble being accepted by his black coworkers because he is "too white"?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=614477

What about this dude who is rethinking his school choice because he realized it's a predominantly white school?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=587166

I could go on and on and on for you... are ALL these black people racist?

👎

 

[Makati2008]

Congrats on getting into medical school!
As far as the post they are similar but not the same.


Take care.

 

[beerog2003]

so, is this black person who's wondering if they will be one of the few people in their class ALSO a racist?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=627195

What about this black dude who is having trouble being accepted by his black coworkers because he is "too white"?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=614477

What about this dude who is rethinking his school choice because he realized it's a predominantly white school?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=587166

I could go on and on and on for you... are ALL these black people racist?

👎

This is not about being racist. It is just about a string of posts being poorly phrased. Baccus' origional post says that he/she had to make choice between PCOM and VCOM and that choice was based on 'substance' and PCOM won out also implying that PCOM is on a higher tier that VCOM i.e. PCOM students aren't questioned for their training.

In the next paragraph he/she goes on to say that the OP's decision is based on solely location and not 'substance'. Implying that Howard and VCOM could not be compared and contrasted based on substance. While I do realize that that is an opinion; here comes another post that says I would never go to Howard based on the fact that the undergrad is predominately African American. How does that help the OP who is from DC and obviously knows that?

I disagree that the comment is racist, but the statements expresse a sentiment that has no place in medicine.

 

[Dorcas]

Thanks for the helpful advice!

 

[Bacchus]

For my own information, what is the ethnic demographics for Howard? I was basing my reasoning on some might not be comfortable due to a lack of diversity because of the Undergrad. If this makeup doesn't exist in the college of medicine then there's no reason to be possibly put off by a lack of diversity.

 

[bioman2006]

.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm going to go through my reasoning for why I would choose VCOM over Howard and then elaborate on other issues more fully.

I feel the major difference here between the two schools is location. Blacksburg is a medium sized town (based on where I come from) and DC is a metro area. I've spent my collegiate years both in Philadelphia and the Poconos so I've been split about 50/50 and love both locations. However, with that said, I would choose VCOM based on its location. I've had great experiences in Philadelphia but the current area I have lived in has definitely rubbed me the wrong way. I'm thankful I am moving out to the suburbs to attend PCOM. Dorcas, overall I think you should be concerned with location. Do you want to spend four more years in the metro area or would you like a (big) change of scenery. Blacksburg is a great town. I've been there on numerous occasions and loved it. Blacksburg has that small-town feel to offer where as like most city areas, DC doesn't always. Cost of living in Blacksburg or nearby Christiansburg is much, much, much cheaper than your other choice of DC.

The reason I feel location is the big point here is that VCOM's academic are up and coming. I was thoroughly impressed with the school and the clinicians it is producing. Going to VCOM, in my opinion will not hamper anyone's future endeavors except for those degree prejudices that we cannot get away from as osteopathic medical students. Howard has been around for a long time, since only a few years after the Civil War. ANY institution that has weathered the subsequent ups and downs of our country most-definitely knows what its doing. You will not have an issue with a Howard education. Is the education equal amongst the two schools? I can't say that it is as I haven't interviewed with Howard or interacted with Howard students. However, Howard has proven itself and VCOM is proving itself so I don't feel the education is the basis for comparison.

Now, based on my other comment about atmosphere and cultural diversity I must defend myself by saying the negative connotation of the post (if it was taken that way) was not intended. I won't go back and change what I said but I will explain myself for any of you that I may have offended because I had no intention to. If Howard were my only choice of school, I would most definitely attend. If it were Howard vs. VCOM I would attend VCOM. But, I must say that I would compare Howard vs X, Y, or Z SOM/COM and would not base my decision on racial makeup. However, it is a decision that prospective students may use. We're creatures of comfort and undeniably some people may be taken back by the demographics of the school. The same can be said for my undergrad. There are people here that definitely were not expecting our racial makeup. For me, I saw it as new opportunities to meet people and learn a lot of things I didn't experience in the town where I live.

I meant no harm by anything I said. Unfortunately, we say things sometimes that don't always come out how we want them to.

Dorcas, let us know which school you decide on!

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I can't believe you would even think that his comment said anything like that.

There are multiple threads about African Americans being uncomfortable with going to schools that are predominantly white (just take a look at one of the most recent threads on the minority forum). They feel weird being one of the few black people that are there. Is it fair to think that they are uncomfortable with white people? That's pretty much how you judged Baccus.

Frankly, I wouldn't go to Howard because it is predominantly black. I do not want to feel like I'm only one of the few white people there. In no way should that make me a racist. ANYONE would feel uncomfortable being only one of the few white/black/hispanic/asian people there.

Yes, I did take his statement to be very prejudiced and one sided but I didn't call him racist, so don't make assumptions on what I meant. I have the right to feel that way and I MAKE NO apologies for that. If he feels that way then that's just how he feels. You disagree with what I said and that's YOUR opinion about it. As you have read (if you read the whole the thread) others took his comment to mean the same as I did. I DON'T judge anyone (especially on the internet) so don't assume I was making a judgment call on what he said. Also, don't assume that because I made a comment about what Bacchus said that I wouldn't make the same comment to a black student who made the same statement. I don't play favoritism to prejudice and I'm not one-sided on how I feel or voice it. The reasons the OP was seeking advice on what school to attend had nothing to do with cultural diversity or racial issues, so in MY OPINION it should have never been mentioned. And for the record, I would choose VCOM (and YES, I'm an African American woman if you haven't noticed) because I'm not too crazy about city life, but right now its not a decision that I have to make.

Bacchus no hard feelings its just an opinion/belief of mines. I don't know you so I can't say that your racist or prejudiced its just that your comment as one poster said "rubbed me the wrong way".

 

[jojoshabadoo]

so, is this black person who's wondering if they will be one of the few people in their class ALSO a racist?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=627195

What about this black dude who is having trouble being accepted by his black coworkers because he is "too white"?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=614477

What about this dude who is rethinking his school choice because he realized it's a predominantly white school?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=587166

I could go on and on and on for you... are ALL these black people racist?

👎

Uh just cause you found some racist black people doesnt mean a white person cant be racist. You all need to start getting comfortable working with people of different backgrounds, a hospital is usually a pretty diverse place to work and if you arent comfortable being the only white person around other people of different backgrounds is gonna get in the way and make you look like an idiot

 

[BlackDr2b]

I personally think you should go to Howard. It is an awesome institution with a great education, lots of diversity, family environment, tons of support from faculty and other students. I do have to admit I am biased and no nothing about VCOM. I think Howard is the bomb and I would choose it over any school, but that is just me. Let us know what you decide. Good luck and God bless!

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I personally think you should go to Howard. It is an awesome institution with a great education, lots of diversity, family environment, tons of support from faculty and other students. I do have to admit I am biased and no nothing about VCOM. I think Howard is the bomb and I would choose it over any school, but that is just me. Let us know what you decide. Good luck and God bless!

Congrats on your acceptance. I remember reading a while ago that you were waiting for the decision or something like that.

 

[BlackDr2b]

Congrats on your acceptance. I remember reading a while ago that you were waiting for the decision or something like that.

Thank you PunkmedGirl! I am extremely excited. I love Howard and can not wait to start. Did you apply this year?

 

[PunkmedGirl]

Thank you PunkmedGirl! I am extremely excited. I love Howard and can not wait to start. Did you apply this year?

No, I was suppose to apply this year but I pushed it back one more year AGAIN. So I'll be two years behind you if I get in on the first try.

 

[beerog2003]

No, I was suppose to apply this year but I pushed it back one more year AGAIN. So I'll be two years behind you if I get in on the first try.

Good luck on your applications! Any reason why you are pushing your application back multiple times? You can PM me if you want. There is support out there for people going through the application process to get you over the hump. I know that I felt somewhat alone in the application process and now I try to offer support to other applicants whenever I can. Hit me up...