How's the job market for an orthodontist in the Inland Empire, California? moving back there after residency.

[itsgonnabeok12]

---

Members don't see this ad.

How's the job market for an orthodontist in the Inland Empire, California? moving back there after residency.

 

[allDAT]

It's okay. You'll probably end up working for PDS - that's basically who hires new orthos. You'll probably either be full time there or you'll be PT with PDS if you can get a PT job in an orthodontists office. That's about it out here.

 

[itsgonnabeok12]

It's okay. You'll probably end up working for PDS - that's basically who hires new orthos. You'll probably either be full time there or you'll be PT with PDS if you can get a PT job in an orthodontists office. That's about it out here.

is it good money? or at least solid?

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

is it good money? or at least solid?

$200k-$250k good money to you?

 

[charlestweed]

$200k-$250k good money to you?

That's a 10-12 day/month job. There are 30-31 days in a month. You need to travel to more offices to double that income.

An ortho at the corp where I work at has just quit because her other corp (PDS) job offered her more days.

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

That's a 10-12 day/month job. There are 30-31 days in a month. You need to travel to more offices to double that income.

An ortho at the corp where I work at has just quit because her other corp (PDS) job offered her more days.

$1,736 is a great daily rate. Where are you practicing?

 

[charlestweed]

$1,736 is a great daily rate. Where are you practicing?

It's around $1300-1400/day for a new grad.....$1500-1600/day with bonuses. I am practicing in the same area where the OP is inquiring about.

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

It's around $1300-1400/day for a new grad.....$1500-1600/day with bonuses. I am practicing in the same area where the OP is inquiring about.

So, let's say $1,500 per day to start. If you are lucky, I think you could get 4 days a week and take off 2 weeks per year. Puts you at $300k then.

Every market is different, but I know many orthodontists in the Midwest who work full-time practicing for +10 years that are making around $250k. The top ones are in the $300k-$400k range that I know.

 

[charlestweed]

So, let's say $1,500 per day to start. If you are lucky, I think you could get 4 days a week and take off 2 weeks per year. Puts you at $300k then.

Every market is different, but I know many orthodontists in the Midwest who work full-time practicing for +10 years that are making around $250k. The top ones are in the $300k-$400k range that I know.

The income depends on the number days (which translates to the number of patients you treat) you work. The more offices you travel to work at, the more days you will have and higher income you will earn.

If you are an owner, your income depends on your overhead. Low overhead = high income.

 

[itsgonnabeok12]

It's around $1300-1400/day for a new grad.....$1500-1600/day with bonuses. I am practicing in the same area where the OP is inquiring about.

so, it's a good area to go to?
i hope so.

 

[itsgonnabeok12]

The income depends on the number days (which translates to the number of patients you treat) you work. The more offices you travel to work at, the more days you will have and higher income you will earn.

If you are an owner, your income depends on your overhead. Low overhead = high income.

i don't know if would ever wanna own tbh.

 

[itsgonnabeok12]

$200k-$250k good money to you?

yes but ideally 400K is what i would like lol

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

yes but ideally 400K is what i would like lol

I'm sure whatever the income is, it would be similar to a GD

 

[charlestweed]

so, it's a good area to go to?
i hope so.

Yup, better pay, easier to find jobs and the patients (mostly Hispanics) are great….they don’t complain and they respect their orthodontist. I live in OC and I drive to the Inland Empire (Upland, Riverside, Corona, and Chino) to work. The traffic from OC to IE is not too bad…about 30-45 minutes each way. I also travel to my 2 other satellite offices (one in OC and one in LA) but there are only enough patients to keep me busy 1 day a month at each office.

Get a full self driving Tesla, which is not that expensive anymore. It'll significantly reduce the stress of your daily commute, even if it is an hour (or more) long.

 

[charlestweed]

i don't know if would ever wanna own tbh.

I thought the same thing too when I was a new grad…..easy associate job that pays well and I didn’t need to go door to door to beg the GPs for referrals. But then after about 4 years, I decided to take the risk to open one. For the first office, I just used my wife’s perio office and brought in a Pan/ceph unit. To save money, I used my wife’s 2 employees (the manager and chairside assistant) on the days when my wife didn’t work. The total cost for this was less than $20k. After about 1 yr, I added another office that I built from scratch and this is currently my busiest office. 2 years later, I added the third one by purchasing an existing office from a 60 yo ortho, who wanted to retire. And I added the 4th office by sharing an office space with my sister who is a GP.

It’s good to do both: own your own office and work P/T for the corp. When you have a stable flow income from your associate job, it’s not too hard, not too stressful to start your own office. I didn’t quit my job at the corp when I started my own office. When I didn't have my own office and worked F/T for the corp, I always had the fear of being let go.....and I had a lot of bills/debts to pay. Having my own office eliminated this fear....and I make a lot more (and work less) at my own offices

 

[allDAT]

I'm not an orthodontist, charles is.
But from the orthos I know - they worked at PDS full time for a year or two (multiple offices), then they found either a good ortho private office to be an associate at - and there are some really good ortho offices out here that if you can get into you're in good shape, or they bought their own office and worked 6 days a week - 3 for PDS, 3 at their own office until their own office could support them full time.

Owning your own office is still the way to go. It introduces some headaches, but overall, ortho is still setup to do very well.

 

[AONLINE]

I came across these comments in a Facebook dental group.

 

[2TH MVR]

With the recent possible cuts to subsidized orthodontic care (Denti-cal) via reduced medicaid govt assistance. I predict increased competition for those patients with conventional insurance or cash patients. California would be the last place I would want to practice orthodontics. Beautiful state, but not a fan of the politics there.

 

[charlestweed]

View attachment 406947View attachment 406948
I came across these comments in a Facebook dental group.

What the above person said is true. It’s simple math: $1300-1400/day x 5 work days/wk x 50 work wks/year = $325-350k/year. This person makes less because he/she chooses to work less than 5 days. Working 5 days/wk as an ortho is easier than working 5 days/wk as a general dentist, as a perio, as an OS, or as an Endo since the assistants perform most of the manual work for the ortho.

All the specialists I know have to travel. My former roommate/classmate, who is an endo, took a train from his Irvine home to Pasadena to work in order to avoid driving in heavy traffic. This Pasadena office only gave him 2 days/wk so he had to travel to work at a couple of other offices. He told me he’d rather do this than owning a practice because he didn’t want to go door to door to beg the GPs for referrals. And he was not a young person. He started dental school when he was 36 and got his endo certificate at age 42. He's 14 yrs older than me and probably retires by now.

 

[charlestweed]

With the recent possible cuts to subsidized orthodontic care (Denti-cal) via reduced medicaid govt assistance. I predict increased competition for those patients with conventional insurance or cash patients. California would be the last place I would want to practice orthodontics. Beautiful state, but not a fan of the politics there.

This is not an issue. In order for denti-cal to pay for ortho tx, the patients have to have very severe malocclusion and crowding. My office stopped accepting denti-cal a long time ago. I see a lot of denti-cal patients at the corp offices that I work for, but I only submit 3-4 cases per year to the denti-cal office to get the tx approval because most of them don’t have severe enough malocclusions. Many parents still want their kids to get braces and have to pay cash. The good thing about ortho is the total cost can be divided into 24-30 smaller monthly payments...this makes ortho tx more affordable for many of my low income patients.

 

[mmc12]

This is not an issue. In order for denti-cal to pay for ortho tx, the patients have to have very severe malocclusion and crowding. My office stopped accepting denti-cal a long time ago. I see a lot of denti-cal patients at the corp offices that I work for, but I only submit 3-4 cases per year to the denti-cal office to get the tx approval because most of them don’t have severe enough malocclusions. Many parents still want their kids to get braces and have to pay cash. The good thing about ortho is the total cost can be divided into 24-30 smaller monthly payments...this makes ortho tx more affordable for many of my low income patients.

Hello Charlestweed, have you gotten raises (increases in your daily base rate) since you've been at your DSO in southern california? It seems like new grads at DSOs get paid higher daily rates than those who have been working for a while.

 

[charlestweed]

Hello Charlestweed, have you gotten raises (increases in your daily base rate) since you've been at your DSO in southern california? It seems like new grads at DSOs get paid higher daily rates than those who have been working for a while.

Yes, I have and that’s why I’ve been with this same company for 20+ yrs. This used to be a part time side job. The main income was from my own offices. But now with the pay raise at the corp office and the decline of my own offices, it’s about 50/50….half of my income is from the corp and half is from my office. Because of the good pay (and it’s an easy job as well) at the corp + I don’t have any more debt, I became less motivated to work the same way that I used to in the past. I stopped going door to door to meet the referring GPs a long time ago. It’s why my offices are declining . A few years ago, I closed one of my 4 offices to save in overhead. Well, it’s time for the younger generation to take over.

In a few more years, when my 59 yo office manager retires, I will close (or sell) the offices and either retire with her or continue work for the corp (if I am bored) like what 2THMR is doing right now. I am gonna be 54 in November.

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

View attachment 406947View attachment 406948
I came across these comments in a Facebook dental group.

This is much more typically from all of the orthodontists I know. Every area is different, but $250k is what I have been seeing as well.

 

[The Kube of Kubes]

How does Endo do out there?

 

[mmc12]

It's okay. You'll probably end up working for PDS - that's basically who hires new orthos. You'll probably either be full time there or you'll be PT with PDS if you can get a PT job in an orthodontists office. That's about it out here.

I feel like a lot of new graduates work at a Western Dental out in the IE. PDS offices generally are pickier about who they hire.