HPSP Advice (HS Senior)

[Dbox96]

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Hey everyone. This site has really been helpful because no one here harbors secrets or advice for helping students. The help is greatly appreciated.


Since I've been a Junior, the more and more I've gained respect and a liking towards Anesthesiology. My problem is, once I graduate High School, I may have to go to a community college and transfer. Ok no biggie. Although, my plans for avoiding debt, was to apply for an Anesthesia Tech program and make some money while pursuing my Bachelor's.

I recently found out about the Army's scholarship program. So far from what I read, you can either join from the Army, Navy or Air Force. I don't have a problem being away. It's just that I don't know what would be the best choice for paying for medical school would be.


I don't know of anyone who's currently on the scholarship so I don't know if It'd be a bad experience compared to going to a University.

Some insight on what the best alternative would be, would be nice.

 

[sonofva]

You have a long way to go before worrying about paying for medical school. Firstly there are scholarship programs for colleges that are known as ROTC. With this program there is a high likelihood that you will not go straight to med school from college, so make sure you do your research. HPSP is for medical school. You will owe one year of active duty for each year of training paid for, which for most people effectively turns into 7-8 years because they do a military residency. Make sure you do your reading on this as well. Many people find that being in the military isn't for them and they regret taking the money. There are other scholarship programs available for medical school such as the national health service corps scholarship, which requires you to do a primary care specialty. They all have a catch. I think most people would recommend that you just live frugally, take minimum loans, and pay them back quickly. You will still have plenty of money once your finish residency. Don't take a scholarship unless you have a real commitment to the military or the underserved.


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[Dbox96]

You have a long way to go before worrying about paying for medical school. Firstly there are scholarship programs for colleges that are known as ROTC. With this program there is a high likelihood that you will not go straight to med school from college, so make sure you do your research. HPSP is for medical school. You will owe one year of active duty for each year of training paid for, which for most people effectively turns into 7-8 years because they do a military residency. Make sure you do your reading on this as well. Many people find that being in the military isn't for them and they regret taking the money. There are other scholarship programs available for medical school such as the national health service corps scholarship, which requires you to do a primary care specialty. They all have a catch. I think most people would recommend that you just live frugally, take minimum loans, and pay them back quickly. You will still have plenty of money once your finish residency. Don't take a scholarship unless you have a real commitment to the military or the underserved.


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I doubt that I'll be able to work or have enough to take out minimal loans. If I'm taking them, I'll have to go all in lol. Once I finish my residency, where will this money com from ?

So if I don't do the military, once I go to a CC, should I just do a tech program while I study for my bachelor's ?


And I understand what you're saying because I'm reading alot of mixed feelings of the HPSP. How are the working conditions in the Army ? Is the pay lower ? Also, the NHSC, how would primary care affect me ?

 

[wayves]

Don't do it unless your ultimate goal is to work for the military. You need to give 1 year of service for every year of scholarship, in addition, they can force you into certain specialties if they have needs (which, given that it's the military, they usually do). Also, if you do their residency, you will need to give an addition year of service for every year of residency and fellowship.

4 years of medical school
4 years of residency

8 years obligatory service

While this may not seem bad, you could be earning a lot more in a civilian job.

8 years earning military officer salaries (which, granted, aren't too shabby with the added healthcare provider bonuses) vs 8 years of earning $350,000.

Let's assume you're making $60,000 per year in the military (a little less in medical school, a little more during your active duty). Plus during your 8 years active duty you're making an additional 36k per year in bonuses (this is the current actual number for anesthesiologists.

60,000 *16
36,000 *8

960,000 + 288,000 =
$1,248,000 Total Earnings after 16 years

Now the civilian path...
Med School = -$400,000 (this is generous), my cousin was only $200,000 in debt incl. compound interest... and this is assuming you don't sign on with a hospital that offers loan forgiveness.
Residency = $50,000 per year (rough estimate) *4
8 years as board certified practicing civilian anesthesiologist (350,000 per year national average salary).


8*350,000
4*50,000

Revenue = $3,000,000
Losses = $400,000

Net = $2,600,000

SUMMARY:
In 16 years you would make $1,352,000 more going the civilian route... and that's a liberal estimate.

Don't do HPSP just for the financial incentives. Do it if you have a general interest in military medicine.

 

[Dbox96]

Don't do it unless your ultimate goal is to work for the military. You need to give 1 year of service for every year of scholarship, in addition, they can force you into certain specialties if they have needs (which, given that it's the military, they usually do). Also, if you do their residency, you will need to give an addition year of service for every year of residency and fellowship.

4 years of medical school
4 years of residency

8 years obligatory service

While this may not seem bad, you could be earning a lot more in a civilian job.

8 years earning military officer salaries (which, granted, aren't too shabby with the added healthcare provider bonuses) vs 8 years of earning $350,000.

Let's assume you're making $60,000 per year in the military (a little less in medical school, a little more during your active duty). Plus during your 8 years active duty you're making an additional 36k per year in bonuses (this is the current actual number for anesthesiologists.

60,000 *16
36,000 *8

960,000 + 288,000 =
$1,248,000 Total Earnings after 16 years

Now the civilian path...
Med School = -$400,000 (this is generous), my cousin was only $200,000 in debt incl. compound interest... and this is assuming you don't sign on with a hospital that offers loan forgiveness.
Residency = $50,000 per year (rough estimate) *4
8 years as board certified practicing civilian anesthesiologist (350,000 per year national average salary).


8*350,000
4*50,000

Revenue = $3,000,000
Losses = $400,000

Net = $2,600,000


In 16 years you would make $1,352,000 more going the civilian route... and that's a liberal estimate.

Don't do HPSP just for the financial incentives. Do it if you have a general interest in military medicine.

Thank you......alot



Would it help to take become an Anesthesia Technician during 4 year undergrad ? or anything you recommend doing to have a steady income as well as experience for the time being

 

[wayves]

Thank you......alot



Would it help to take become an Anesthesia Technician during 4 year undergrad ? or anything you recommend doing to have a steady income as well as experience for the time being

Yes it would be a good experience as long as the course isn't too long and doesn't cost a lot. Some places hire techs without a course, so make sure it's needed where you're applying.

 

[Dbox96]

Yes it would be a good experience as long as the course isn't too long and doesn't cost a lot. Some places hire techs without a course, so make sure it's needed where you're applying.

Ok. Also what pre req's do you recommend taking while im at community college ? I hear I shouldn't take alot but I don't know where I should start

 

[IlDestriero]

Don't do it unless your ultimate goal is to work for the military. You need to give 1 year of service for every year of scholarship, in addition, they can force you into certain specialties if they have needs (which, given that it's the military, they usually do). Also, if you do their residency, you will need to give an addition year of service for every year of residency and fellowship.

4 years of medical school
4 years of residency

8 years obligatory service

While this may not seem bad, you could be earning a lot more in a civilian job.

8 years earning military officer salaries (which, granted, aren't too shabby with the added healthcare provider bonuses) vs 8 years of earning $350,000.

Let's assume you're making $60,000 per year in the military (a little less in medical school, a little more during your active duty). Plus during your 8 years active duty you're making an additional 36k per year in bonuses (this is the current actual number for anesthesiologists.

60,000 *16
36,000 *8

960,000 + 288,000 =
$1,248,000 Total Earnings after 16 years

Now the civilian path...
Med School = -$400,000 (this is generous), my cousin was only $200,000 in debt incl. compound interest... and this is assuming you don't sign on with a hospital that offers loan forgiveness.
Residency = $50,000 per year (rough estimate) *4
8 years as board certified practicing civilian anesthesiologist (350,000 per year national average salary).


8*350,000
4*50,000

Revenue = $3,000,000
Losses = $400,000

Net = $2,600,000

SUMMARY:
In 16 years you would make $1,352,000 more going the civilian route... and that's a liberal estimate.

Don't do HPSP just for the financial incentives. Do it if you have a general interest in military medicine.

Everything in this post is wrong.
-They can't force you to do a residency you don't want. Worst case you pay back the 4 years as a GMO and do a civilian residency. This myth needs to die.
-You do not owe 8 years after a 4 year residency with HPSP, you would owe 4 years. You may be confusing your obligation for attending the military's medical school (USUHS) I wouldn't recommend that to anyone not committed to the military long term. With HPSP, you would only extend your obligated time if the residency was longer than your commitment (usually 4 years) or did a fellowship.
-Anesthesiologists in the .mil make about $180k/yr with all the bonuses during payback, and about 50k more per year if they take a 4 year extension at the end of their obligated service.
-Your math is quite different now. Though it is still a money loser and was for me for sure. A big one.

-your final conclusion is, of course correct. Don't join for the money.

 

[hmockingbird]

I doubt that I'll be able to work or have enough to take out minimal loans. If I'm taking them, I'll have to go all in lol. Once I finish my residency, where will this money com from ?

So if I don't do the military, once I go to a CC, should I just do a tech program while I study for my bachelor's ?


And I understand what you're saying because I'm reading alot of mixed feelings of the HPSP. How are the working conditions in the Army ? Is the pay lower ? Also, the NHSC, how would primary care affect me ?

I think what was meant by minimal loans is that the school will estimate your cost of living on top of tuition, and you do not need to borrow the full COL amount and shouldn't if you can at all avoid it. For example, my medical school is near 2 suburbs, one is more expensive. I live in the cheaper suburb, but my friends who live in the more expensive one pay 1.5-2X more than I do for my rent. My apartment is probably a little smaller, but not significantly. The drawback is that most people from my school live in two complexes in the more expensive suburb, so I don't live near as many people (near being next door lol... they are like a 5 minute drive away). I thought the decreased cost was worth it, especially since I didn't really want a roommate - which is another way to save money.

Basically, my advice for med school would be to borrow the least amount of loans that you need on top of tuition. You may need the full amount, but you might not. Savings from a job during undergrad would also help you save money.

 

[Dbox96]

I think what was meant by minimal loans is that the school will estimate your cost of living on top of tuition, and you do not need to borrow the full COL amount and shouldn't if you can at all avoid it. For example, my medical school is near 2 suburbs, one is more expensive. I live in the cheaper suburb, but my friends who live in the more expensive one pay 1.5-2X more than I do for my rent. My apartment is probably a little smaller, but not significantly. The drawback is that most people from my school live in two complexes in the more expensive suburb, so I don't live near as many people (near being next door lol... they are like a 5 minute drive away). I thought the decreased cost was worth it, especially since I didn't really want a roommate - which is another way to save money.

Basically, my advice for med school would be to borrow the least amount of loans that you need on top of tuition. You may need the full amount, but you might not. Savings from a job during undergrad would also help you save money.

Thanks. If you know your career will end up paying the loans, would you worry about living frugal during education ?

 

[TheTruckGuy]

http://whitecoatinvestor.com/personal-finance/should-i-join-the-military-to-pay-for-medical-school/

The "8 year committment" that comes with HPSP is really a 4 year committment after residency + 4 years of doing a military residency. During residency you get paid close to twice as much as you would as a civilian resident.

But, DO NOT do it for the money. You really have to want to serve, with the full understanding that you may get deployed, you may have to sacrifice time away from friends and family, you most likely will not come out financially ahead compared with your civilian counterparts (unless maybe you're like family medicine and attend a cheap state school). The needs of the military have to come before the needs of the individual every time, and you have to be ok with that. Now they will do their best to accommodate you, but in the end the mission comes first.

Thanks. If you know your career will end up paying the loans, would you worry about living frugal during education ?

Yes. Accumulating debt is never a good thing. First off, you're probably going to be just accumulating interest on your loans while you're a resident, since resident pay isn't high enough to really pay down your debt. When you break it down, you're paying roughly 6.8% interest on 30-40k per year of med school (assuming you go to a cheap state school). So you're looking at a minimum of 120-160k in debt before you graduate. For simplicity's sake, let's say you accumulated the average med student debt (160k), weren't charged any interest while you were in school, and you wanted to pay back the loan as soon as you were done with a 4 year residency. Your new principal would be about 208k. Now if you want to attempt to pay back this amount within 10 years, you'd have to pay roughly 2,300 per month over those 10 years. And in the end, you will have paid about 80,000 in just interest. Or, if you take 30 years to pay back, you will have spent roughly 280,000 in interest alone.

If you play with the numbers a little, you can see that living humbly, not wasting money on parties and fast food, expensive furniture, etc can really help you out in the long term. Now don't go living like a pauper, but be smart.

 

[FuturArzt21]

Hi, i'm in high school right now strongly interested in medicine and I have some questions about the HPSP and FAP program through the military. I understand that for medical school the HPSP scholarship is 3 or 4 years. My question is what happens after you complete medical school on an HPSP? When do complete your residency? Do you serve your obligation upon graduating from med school or are allowed to complete a residency first? Do you have to do a military residency? And what about fellowships, when do you complete those? I know its a lot of questions and it seems early to think about this kind of stuff but I am just hoping I can get some answers.

 

[ComputerGuy365]

Hi, i'm in high school right now strongly interested in medicine and I have some questions about the HPSP and FAP program through the military. I understand that for medical school the HPSP scholarship is 3 or 4 years. My question is what happens after you complete medical school on an HPSP? When do complete your residency? Do you serve your obligation upon graduating from med school or are allowed to complete a residency first? Do you have to do a military residency? And what about fellowships, when do you complete those? I know its a lot of questions and it seems early to think about this kind of stuff but I am just hoping I can get some answers.

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