HPSP Programs- Navy, Army, Air Force

[abarrientos005]

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Hey everyone. So first I just want to apologize for the length of this thread. Ive been doing a bunch of research on the HPSP programs and reading countless forums on which branch is better, pros/cons, etc. So to break this down, I just want to voice a few questions/concerns about the program before I fully fully commit.

1) MONEY: I know that you are NOT supposed to consider the program for the money, and let me say, that I do not (but you have to admit, having tuition paid is a sweet deal). From what Ive read/heard from a recruiters interview (I can explain that if anyone asks) and speaking with a few doctors who have gone through the program, all of the money is the same regardless of branch, so I'm not concerned with that aspect.

2) SERVICE COMMITMENT: in terms of commitment, I understand that the total length of commitment is 8 years. (4 active/4 reserve). I know that the branches slightly differ in the length of their commitment. For example, in an article I read about Navy HPSP, the doctor writing said that the actual commitment time is really 5 years, not the 4 or 3 (please correct me if I am wrong), OR the length of your residency, whichever is greater. I believe army is the same. The Air Force, Ive read and heard that the commitment is the length of the scholarship you take( 3 or 4) and they have a 5 year residency limit. So, for me, Orthopedics is a 5 year residency. If I were to take the full 4 year scholarship, I would only payback the 4 years, not the 5 years, like the Navy would (this also assumes that everything turns out perfectly and am able to match to residency and go straight through). My one caveat about this is on the Navy side in regards to a GMO. Ive read on almost every forum and other article that most (roughly 80%) of people are pulled out for a GMO for about 2 years. I can see the pros and cons for this, a pro being that you can start knocking off your service time and it's a great experience to actually be out in the field, but for me personally, i am not a fan of the idea of taking off and having to wait for residency. I wanna go completely through from med school to residency. In this aspect, army and Air Force seem more appealing, although they can also have a drawback. If anyone has input on this part, which I feel is the tricky part, please share, Im all ears.

3)DEPLOYMENT: This may or may not make some people upset (I don't know), but my biggest thing about deployment is that I want to look out for my family. Meaning, within the next 4-5 years, well into Med school/residency, I have every intention of starting a family, and I know that deployments can be the hardest part, but wherever I go, I wanna make sure my family is with me (not mom and pop and everyone haha, just my wife and kid(s)). The deployments for each branch are total different and from what I've read from the forums, this is the general breakdown: Navy is about 6 months, army is anywhere between 12-15 and Air Force is around 4 months. As well, the location is another factor. The idea of being on a ship seems thrilling, AT FIRST, but after 2-3 weeks I'd be real sick of it and not want to be on a ship anymore (again, that's if you were stationed, but there is that possibility). The idea of being on a base (AF) sounds much more appealing, and while I have heard that Air Force has more a cushier lifestyle and I know the obligation is to the military first, but I wanna look out for my family as well.

4) SPECIALITY: Ive seen some conflicting statements, but for the most part is it true that the military does NOT choose the speciality you want to go into? No offense to the other individuals going into different specialities, but that is why we all have different interests. Orthopedics/Sports Medicine is my absolute passion, so it's like an all or nothing. I don't want to be forced into a certain speciality, unless it's that. As well, what is the residency match like? Like what is the deal with military residency, or the possibility of being deferred to a civilian residency? This is another huge factor for me. Im aware that military residents generally make more than civilian counterparts, but I don't care about the differences in residency pay. I would much prefer to have options and be able to choose which residency I can go into.

That basically covers my concerns. Just a little bit of background, I just finish undergrad in August, but am doing a post bac starting January, so med school wont start for me until fall 2019.
Also, for me, my concern is not about the money. Back in high school, I actually was into being in the military before I really found out what it is i wanted to do, it's just now the focus would be different. As well the reward of being able to be a physician and receive medical training from the military and be able to care for and treat the brave men and women who sacrifice for our country is rewarding. And I am interested in humanitarian missions and going to other parts of the world to help contribute to the wellbeing of other countries (Ive read a lot about this from the Air Force).

So I'll end my post here. Again, my bad for a long one, but if anyone has any input/advice/or needs to correct anything I laid out, please feel free. I wanna learn as much as I can about this.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hey everyone. So first I just want to apologize for the length of this thread. Ive been doing a bunch of research on the HPSP programs and reading countless forums on which branch is better, pros/cons, etc. So to break this down, I just want to voice a few questions/concerns about the program before I fully fully commit.

You can look at the military medicine forum for some details and opinions, but honestly the majority of opinions on milmed are quite negative here. Kind of makes sense as most people who want to complain about something will, but the people who are content aren’t going out of their way to make accounts.

Anyway, here goes.

1) MONEY: I know that you are NOT supposed to consider the program for the money, and let me say, that I do not (but you have to admit, having tuition paid is a sweet deal). From what Ive read/heard from a recruiters interview (I can explain that if anyone asks) and speaking with a few doctors who have gone through the program, all of the money is the same regardless of branch, so I'm not concerned with that aspect.

Yeah, don’t do it for the money. It’s a sweet upside, but shouldn’t be your primary motivator.

2) SERVICE COMMITMENT: in terms of commitment, I understand that the total length of commitment is 8 years. (4 active/4 reserve). I know that the branches slightly differ in the length of their commitment. For example, in an article I read about Navy HPSP, the doctor writing said that the actual commitment time is really 5 years, not the 4 or 3 (please correct me if I am wrong), OR the length of your residency, whichever is greater. I believe army is the same. The Air Force, Ive read and heard that the commitment is the length of the scholarship you take( 3 or 4) and they have a 5 year residency limit. So, for me, Orthopedics is a 5 year residency. If I were to take the full 4 year scholarship, I would only payback the 4 years, not the 5 years, like the Navy would (this also assumes that everything turns out perfectly and am able to match to residency and go straight through). My one caveat about this is on the Navy side in regards to a GMO. Ive read on almost every forum and other article that most (roughly 80%) of people are pulled out for a GMO for about 2 years. I can see the pros and cons for this, a pro being that you can start knocking off your service time and it's a great experience to actually be out in the field, but for me personally, i am not a fan of the idea of taking off and having to wait for residency. I wanna go completely through from med school to residency. In this aspect, army and Air Force seem more appealing, although they can also have a drawback. If anyone has input on this part, which I feel is the tricky part, please share, Im all ears.

Navy is year for year on the scholarship. If you do a longer residency, you will pay back more.

On the gmo thing. About a third of Navy interns go onto a GMO before continuing onto residency (so ~33%, not ~80). The more competitive specialties are more likely to send you gmo, but it fluctuates.

As for the Army and the AF, you will still do a gmo tour. They just don’t call it that. The army calls them battalion surgeon tours, but it is essentially the same thing. Only you’ll do it after you are residency trained, so they’ll pull you away from your specialty for 3-4 years, then send you back with complete skill atrophy. For a surgeon, that means you can’t operate on your own patients until you relearn how to do everything (they basically make you a junior staff physician who operates with an attending until you’re back up to speed).

The Navy sends you after internship, then sends you back to residency and you get to practice your specialty (there are still valid concerns about volume, acuity, etc that are present in every branch, but you will likely not be pulled away from your specialty).

So when do you want to do it? It’ll happen one way or the other.

3)DEPLOYMENT: This may or may not make some people upset (I don't know), but my biggest thing about deployment is that I want to look out for my family. Meaning, within the next 4-5 years, well into Med school/residency, I have every intention of starting a family, and I know that deployments can be the hardest part, but wherever I go, I wanna make sure my family is with me (not mom and pop and everyone haha, just my wife and kid(s)). The deployments for each branch are total different and from what I've read from the forums, this is the general breakdown: Navy is about 6 months, army is anywhere between 12-15 and Air Force is around 4 months. As well, the location is another factor. The idea of being on a ship seems thrilling, AT FIRST, but after 2-3 weeks I'd be real sick of it and not want to be on a ship anymore (again, that's if you were stationed, but there is that possibility). The idea of being on a base (AF) sounds much more appealing, and while I have heard that Air Force has more a cushier lifestyle and I know the obligation is to the military first, but I wanna look out for my family as well.

Deployments in every branch is variable in length. Navy can be as low as 3.5 months and as long as a year. As far as deploying on a ship, it is very possible to do a career in Navy medicine and never get underway on a ship. There are not a ton of doctors on ships, and most of them are GMOs. Additionally, there are plenty of spots with the Marines for a GMO tour if you need to do one, as well as flight medicine and dive medicine.

I don’t know too much about Air Force deployments. My cousin is an AF orthopod and loves it, but said deployment sucks. Deployment sucks no matter what branch you’re in.

4) SPECIALITY: Ive seen some conflicting statements, but for the most part is it true that the military does NOT choose the speciality you want to go into? No offense to the other individuals going into different specialities, but that is why we all have different interests. Orthopedics/Sports Medicine is my absolute passion, so it's like an all or nothing. I don't want to be forced into a certain speciality, unless it's that. As well, what is the residency match like? Like what is the deal with military residency, or the possibility of being deferred to a civilian residency? This is another huge factor for me. Im aware that military residents generally make more than civilian counterparts, but I don't care about the differences in residency pay. I would much prefer to have options and be able to choose which residency I can go into.

The military does not choose your specialty. You are also guaranteed to match. It is also the only place where you will eventually get the specialty of your choice (with the exception of neurosurgery) if you’re patient and have the board scores. If Ortho is super competitive, and you have to do a gmo tour, you can just keep applying until you get it. That being said, some specialties just aren’t available. At least in the Navy, PMR has not had a funded spot in years. Fellowships can also be hard to come by and you may have to do a utilization tour between residency and fellowship.

Ortho is always an option. It’s one of the bigger specialties.

That basically covers my concerns. Just a little bit of background, I just finish undergrad in August, but am doing a post bac starting January, so med school wont start for me until fall 2019.
Also, for me, my concern is not about the money. Back in high school, I actually was into being in the military before I really found out what it is i wanted to do, it's just now the focus would be different. As well the reward of being able to be a physician and receive medical training from the military and be able to care for and treat the brave men and women who sacrifice for our country is rewarding. And I am interested in humanitarian missions and going to other parts of the world to help contribute to the wellbeing of other countries (Ive read a lot about this from the Air Force).

So I'll end my post here. Again, my bad for a long one, but if anyone has any input/advice/or needs to correct anything I laid out, please feel free. I wanna learn as much as I can about this.

Thanks everyone!

 

[BombsAway]

Yo dawg. A bunch of stuff you said is wrong. Go shadow at a mil-med center before signing up for the .mil, ask them all these questions again. IF you're getting your intel from a recruiter, you'll get what you deserve.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

IF you're getting your intel from a recruiter, you'll get what you deserve.

That’s for sure.

 

[abarrientos005]

Yo dawg. A bunch of stuff you said is wrong. Go shadow at a mil-med center before signing up for the .mil, ask them all these questions again. IF you're getting your intel from a recruiter, you'll get what you deserve.

how would I go about shadowing a mil-med center? also do you mean I said a lot of wrong stuff or the other user, haha

 

[abarrientos005]

yeah, I know that Air Force and army have the possibility of doing a GMO (Air Force has aerospace medicine in COT I believe, which sounds cool), but from things I read, the possibility of doing the GMO/internship only happens if you completely fail to match with a military residency and civilian residency

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

yeah, I know that Air Force and army have the possibility of doing a GMO (Air Force has aerospace medicine in COT I believe, which sounds cool), but from things I read, the possibility of doing the GMO/internship only happens if you completely fail to match with a military residency and civilian residency

False. You will do one in the Army and the Air Force. They call them battalion surgeons. I spoke with the both dean of admissions and the CO of USUHS about this very subject. It will happen one way or the other.

Edit: reread my post. You will do a battalion surgeon tour, but it will be post residency. Would you rather do a GMO right after internship, go back to residency and then practice? Or go straight through residency, then get pulled to be a battalion surgeon (which has the same duties as a gmo) for several years, losing all the skills you gained in residency so that you have to get them back in order to practice again? It’s up to you. I know people who would rather leave their specialty for four years and go straight through. But I’ll take the Gmo tour first and then not have to worry about it (if I have to do it at all).

 

[BombsAway]

False. You will do one in the Army and the Air Force. They call them battalion surgeons. I spoke with the both dean of admissions and the CO of USUHS about this very subject. It will happen one way or the other.

Edit: reread my post. You will do a battalion surgeon tour, but it will be post residency. Would you rather do a GMO right after internship, go back to residency and then practice? Or go straight through residency, then get pulled to be a battalion surgeon (which has the same duties as a gmo) for several years, losing all the skills you gained in residency so that you have to get them back in order to practice again? It’s up to you. I know people who would rather leave their specialty for four years and go straight through. But I’ll take the Gmo tour first and then not have to worry about it (if I have to do it at all).

That's not true either. In the army and air force you can go from residency to a typical staff physician at a hospital, pay back your time, and get out. Dozens of my friends have or are currently doing this. In fact, I don't know a single person who was forced to do a BN Surgeon gig.

Let's not misinform the kiddos.

 

[BombsAway]

how would I go about shadowing a mil-med center? also do you mean I said a lot of wrong stuff or the other user, haha

You go to the red cross office and get cleared as a volunteer. Then you beg/borrow/steal your way into getting a physician to let you shadow.

At this point, you're both wrong. Different things of course.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's not true either. In the army and air force you can go from residency to a typical staff physician at a hospital, pay back your time, and get out. Dozens of my friends have or are currently doing this. In fact, I don't know a single person who was forced to do a BN Surgeon gig.

Let's not misinform the kiddos.

True. I was thinking about a career, not payback and getting out. Good catch.

I actually don't know a single Army physician who didn't do a battalion surgeon tour, but they're all career.

Edit: I thought I wrote it, but I don't think I did. My knowledge of Army and AF med comes through second hand experience. Definitely verify that stuff (and everything, really). But what I said about Army battalion surgeon tours came directly from O-6 physicians, so take that how you will. I'm sure if you do your residency, do a tour and then get out, you may be able to avoid it.

 

[aaronrodgers]

I think its important to clarify to OP the difference between deployment and being stationed somewhere.

Your family can go with you to where you are stationed (long term) but they wouldn't want to deploy with you in Africa or the middle east (shorter term, still months)

 

[deleted804295]

I actually contemplated ROTC and HPSP to do military medicine and help soldiers on the frontlines but was dissuaded both from pages and pages of what I saw on here but also from a friend who is currently going through ROTC (not pre-med) and she really does not enjoy what she is doing.

Military medicine is a hefty contract to consider and the last person you should go to talk about with it is a recruiter like previous posters states. I spoke to my friend about recruiters and they often leave out information that will be best for you for example telling you that you have to do 6 years active 2 years reserve but not mentioning that they might have a 4/4 option or 2/6 option in some cases.

I became friends with this friend for the sole reason that I was interested in joining the military so I recommend you doing the same. Find someone who is already in the shoes you want to fill and ask them for the blunt honest truth.

P.S. While having your loans paid off sounds nice, average salary is crap compared to regular doctors and if you're a male say goodbye to your loved ones if you go to war. You might have just started a family however they have no mercy and will bring you into the frontlines regardless if you're on active. I think that's the catalyst that really stopped me from going. My friend helped in dissauding me but one of the doctors here made a pivotal post where he was torn from his newborn and wife while on active. It broke my heart and I've never looked back to military medicine as a result.

 

[outwardbound]

Hey guys I had a question regarding specializing in the Air Force. I was accepted into medical school this cycle and am deciding between the Army or Air Force HPSP. I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry, and oncology/hematology.

I was wondering how difficult it is to do internships in the Air Force? Would I have to get special clearance to do an internship in oncology/hematology after IM residency? And would this extra training require more active duty years? Thank you!

If anyone knows about this on the Army side I would appreciate feedback on that. Or any other reason why the Air Force would be better or worse than the Army is also greatly appreciated!

 

[deleted953743]

Hey guys I had a question regarding specializing in the Air Force. I was accepted into medical school this cycle and am deciding between the Army or Air Force HPSP. I am interested in emergency medicine, psychiatry, and oncology/hematology.

I was wondering how difficult it is to do internships in the Air Force? Would I have to get special clearance to do an internship in oncology/hematology after IM residency? And would this extra training require more active duty years? Thank you!

If anyone knows about this on the Army side I would appreciate feedback on that. Or any other reason why the Air Force would be better or worse than the Army is also greatly appreciated!

Join the Military HPSP Student and Physician group on Facebook! Lots of milmed physicians waiting to help.