Human Doctors Make Mistakes

[lalzi22]

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35286379/ns/health-pet_health/?GT1=43001

An article titled "When vets make mistakes, pets pay the price" goes on about how the veterinary profession makes vets basically unaccountable for their pet. My favorite part talks about how in a malpractice or wrongful death, a dog is valued at less than $100, and that its sad for the family. What it fails to mention is how few people want to pay vet bills and then when their animal dies of cancer, its somehow our fault that they didn't want to pay for surgery or chemo.

Yes, vets can make mistakes, but animals are imperfect patients due to the fact that we can't say "you just had surgery, don't move for a week". So yes, a surgery may not heal correctly because an animal moves to jumps. Yes, stitches may need to be replaced if your dog rips them out. Its the difference between human medicine and animal medicine, and people need to stop comparing them apples to apples. And if they don't want to stop comparing them apples to apples, I suggest they start paying us like their human doctors.

Just wanted to see what all of you thought of this glorious article.

 

[HopefulAg]

Also we can't run large, thorough, glorious, and informative chemistry panels and every test in the book that we'd like, because owners don't want to pay for them. I don't think owners should get much recourse if it's them hampering our abilities.

Stuff like this, however:

And Stefani Olsen of Silver Spring, Md., returned from a weekend business trip to discover that the clinic where she'd boarded her elderly diabetic cat, Toonces, had overdosed him with 10 times the amount of insulin he needed, leaving the animal blind,

VERY easy mistake to make, having a new person pick up the wrong syringe, but also one that's very avoidable and very much our fault.

 

[nyanko]

But because the errors occurred in animals, owners and advocates say they were ignored, minimized or outright denied by a system that devalues the bond between pets and their owners and fails to hold veterinarians sufficiently accountable when they make mistakes.

I think the amount that many people are willing to pay for vet care determines "the system" within which veterinarians must work.

 

[DVMDream]

Yes, vets can make mistakes, but animals are imperfect patients due to the fact that we can't say "you just had surgery, don't move for a week". So yes, a surgery may not heal correctly because an animal moves to jumps.

This reminds me of a dog we have had coming in for Robert Jones’ bandage changes for a broken leg. The broken leg was the owner’s fault the dog jumped out of her arms when it got spooked. We have told them a million times to keep the dog calm, do not let him jump, run, etc, etc. Yet they do not listen and they have been complaining about having to pay for the bandage changes. They complained because the bandage slipped off 2 days before it was supposed to be changed. We put a new bandage on and moved their next appointment up and they were pissed when we charged them for the bandage; claiming it was our fault the bandage came off (BS). Every time they come they tell us how well he is doing and how active he is (NO!!!). We have even offered sedatives to help calm him down some, but they fail to listen. As far as I am concerned, until you can listen to us, do not complain about the prices, they bandage could have been permanently removed a long time ago if they would have listened.

 

[sumstorm]

They are missing the point that a lot of damages in humans are also because of life disruptions, loss of working ability/income, etc. I hate to say it, but realisticly, I can't see valueing pets more than their owners are willing to. For some, it is $0, others $100/yr (at least for vet care), and for others it is in the 5 & 6 figures. While I don't think stock of any sort should be a depreciating asset, I also don't think we can vastly increase every standard without increasing costs. And, if that many are happening in human med, maybe the focus should be on fixing those systems first, then moving on to pet med. There needs to be something in between...maybe damages to animals need to be measured like damages to an asset that increases in value, but then you do risk having a lack of treatment available for critically ill/aged patients.

One thing that keeps hitting me is that people can insure their pets. Not just health insurance. I have nsurance value riders for a couple of my dogs because the cost/value is just too high to not have someting to offset the risk (coverage for loss, theft, and damage including organic & congenital.)

 

[quantized]

That vetsfromhell.net site made my eyes bleed. Nothing like caps lock and a crazy background to make me close a window....they clearly miss geocities 🙁

 

[Tobysgirl81]

This reminds me of a dog we have had coming in for Robert Jones’ bandage changes for a broken leg. The broken leg was the owner’s fault the dog jumped out of her arms when it got spooked. We have told them a million times to keep the dog calm, do not let him jump, run, etc, etc. Yet they do not listen and they have been complaining about having to pay for the bandage changes. They complained because the bandage slipped off 2 days before it was supposed to be changed. We put a new bandage on and moved their next appointment up and they were pissed when we charged them for the bandage; claiming it was our fault the bandage came off (BS). Every time they come they tell us how well he is doing and how active he is (NO!!!). We have even offered sedatives to help calm him down some, but they fail to listen. As far as I am concerned, until you can listen to us, do not complain about the prices, they bandage could have been permanently removed a long time ago if they would have listened.

It amazes me how often this happens. We have owners who pay thousands for fracture repairs, cruciate repairs, total hips, etc etc...and then don't take the time to actually rehab the patient correctly. Yes, your dog has a metal plate/pin/whatever in its leg. That does not however mean that it is healed!

One of the surgeons I work with was telling me about a dog he put back together from a dog fight after it nearly died and was severely injured. Wound healing took a few months, and was a very slow process. When the dog finally recovered he told the owner it ABSOLUTELY could not go back in with the dog that had attacked it in the first place. The owner swore they'd gotten rid of the other dog and it wouldn't happen... Two weeks later they brought it back because the other dog had attacked it again. And let me tell you, wound reconstruction? One of the most rewarding experiences but NOT cheap. I rarely see them walk out for under $10,000. So to spend that much money and then throw it all away...unbelievable.

All doctors make mistakes eventually. Hopefully they're not devastating, but its inevitable. No one is perfect. All you can do is the best you can do. And those same people who claim there dog is worth over $100 probably wouldn't be willing to pay what they think its worth to buy it in the first place. Not saying emotional price isn't important, but how many people would be willing to pay $20,000 for their dog?

The last thing we as vets need is for insurance companies and corporations to take over practices. It makes things more expensive, more complicated, and more frustrating for everyone involved

 

[Azarael]

I actually agree with a good portion of the article. Both human doctors and veterinarians are medical professionals and I think mistakes in the field should be held equally accountable. I don't believe that the ''market value'' of an owner's pet makes it any more acceptable or excusable if mistakes such as those mentioned in the article are performed by a veterinarian. Only the owner can value his personal attachment to his animal.

Granted, the temperance of our patients, the high dependence on communications with the owner, and the general tendency of owners to pay for cheaper (and less recommended) treatments in the veterinary field may make it more likely for things to go wrong, mistakes on our part should not be held to a lower standard because of this. We should be held responsible for our mistakes and should always try to do the best we can in each situation.

 

[Tobysgirl81]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that just because our patient has an actual value as opposed to an intangible one doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best in every situation. I don't think anyone on this board would be here if they didn't have a genuine desire to treat, care for and otherwise cure patients of their problems and deliberate maltreatment or malpractice should be certainly be prosecuted. Unfortunately, accidents DO happen whether you want them to or not. Stay in vet medicine long enough and you'll see it!

Heck, I've made a few myself. Once, about 10 years ago, we had a cat in a clinic I worked at who was on insulin. We fed her dinner and when I went back to check on her before giving her her shot it turned out she had vomited. I told my clinician, who needed a moment to think about it before we decided how to proceed. Somehow, between the two of us and all the work we were doing, we forgot to get back together and we ended up missing giving her her insulin. Luckily, it was NOT a devastating result the following morning..but I felt quite sick to my stomach when I looked at her chart that day and realized what had happened.

Some of the best vets I know have made mistakes, and we ARE all human. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you learn to not hold it against yourself forever. You cannot eliminate mistakes entirely, just control the results and try to avoid them in the future!

 

[HopefulAg]

I mixed up Prednisone and Prednisolone once about a month into starting the job. Luckily the vet caught the mistake because he knew the difference between the two by shape of the pill.

Mistakes do happen, and if it's a mistake like that, we should be held accountable. But I think if the owner wants recompense for something they could have prevented, well, tough on them. If we're to be held accountable for our mistakes, then they should be held accountable for theirs.

 

[StealthDog]

I think the big disconnect that the public is seeing is that vets have no problem talking about pets as family, the human-animal bond, etc when it comes to promoting veterinary services, but then when a vet does something that harms or kills a pet, suddenly it's just an animal with the same emotional value as a toaster. Vets can't have it both ways- either pets are just property, or pets are family members- they can't be one or the other depending on what suits the vet best financially.

I'm not saying that animals should be boosted to the level of humans and vets should face the same penalties as MDs if we harm an animal, but I think bringing pets from the level of property to somewhere in between property and human life would be a more accurate reflection of the role pets play in our society. I think Dr. James Wilson likes the term "sentient property"...

 

[Ben and Me]

It's interesting how people will complain about the cost of vet med, and then expect huge malpractice settlements. If malpractice insurance goes up for us, so will prices. Consumers can't have it both ways.

 

[katryn]

The part that boggles my mind most is a veterinarian making the owner feel as though they need to go through the process of reporting malpractice/suing/etc. I've seen a number of mistakes happen, both from veterinarians and staff, but in all cases the vet has bent over backwards to let the owner know that the mistake is being rectified and insuring that any treatment incurred by the mistake is free of or very limited charge. This seems to be enough to let owners know that even though yes we as humans make mistakes, we do in fact care about preventing them.

 

[Crazy Hippos]

I know there are plenty of irresponsible owners who refuse to believe that anything that goes wrong with their animal is their fault, but I also believe there are plenty of preventable mistakes that occur at veterinary hospitals. For example, in the newest edition of NYC Metro Rabbit News, a neutered rabbit was almost spayed! Also, a vet tech at the animal hospital I currently work at wrote that a dog was scheduled for a neuter when it was actually there for a dentistry! 😱

 

[sumstorm]

The part that boggles my mind most is a veterinarian making the owner feel as though they need to go through the process of reporting malpractice/suing/etc.

I have seen a fair number of frivolous reports to vet med boards...suing less so, but that is due to the actual low payout vs. cost, part of why I am glad pets aren't classified with humans; costs would skyrocket because the potential to 'make' money would increase numbers; and the 'rich' vet wouldn't garner as much sympathy as the tearful pet owner, whether the mistake was vet, owner, neither, both, etc. Also, how would changing animal status affect food animal, zoo animal, etc care?

 

[annie800]

All medical professionals can make mistakes on otherwise healthy animals/individuals. Yes, they can make mistakes on ill animals/individuals, and sometimes those mistakes are less obvious. More common than medical malpractice is the fact that owners/patients do overlook symptoms and problems or refuse to pay for procedures and treatments until it is too late.

Still, some of these stories involve people who took preventative methods, gave great care and attention to the health of their pets, and still lost their pet due to a vet or clinical error. Those stories are pretty heartbreaking.

I can definitely understand it from the vet and client perspective. Mistakes can be made on both ends.

 

[Castaway12]

http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/rip-offs/10-things-your-veterinarian-wont-tell-you-18069/

"10 Things Your Veterinarian Won't Tell You"

This is another story that smartmoney ran about what veterinarians "are withholding" from the rest of the "poor, taken-advantage-of clients".

Thank you smartmoney for informing us that we don't need to vaccinate our pets and the evil veterinarians are taking advantage of everyone! MWAH HAH HAH

if you have time-read through the comments, they are equally as entertaining.

anyone else peeved?