hypothetical

[medicineman1]

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So a friend of mine and I were discussing the following scenario, and then the following question was posed, and I didnt have the answer. Its an interesting scenario. What if one signed a contract outside the match, and then went through with match, ranking only top choice. This person then matched at top choice- thus, now has two contracts. Besides being unethical-what could/would the potential consequences be?

 

[mmed]

So a friend of mine and I were discussing the following scenario, and then the following question was posed, and I didnt have the answer. Its an interesting scenario. What if one signed a contract outside the match, and then went through with match, ranking only top choice. This person then matched at top choice- thus, now has two contracts. Besides being unethical-what could/would the potential consequences be?

As I understand it, this is match violation with all consequences TOO.

 

[mig26x]

that both contracts could be removed since the second one is ilegal and the first one can be removed from his power due to accepting a contract having one already!.

 

[Solideliquid]

If there was a clause in the out-of-match contract that said something to the effect that the employee must drop out of the match upon signing that could be a problem.

However, if this is not in the contract, the "person" should be fine as long as they can get the contract (pre-match) nullified by that program.

A friend of mine accepted a pre-match contract, but during the scramble found a better program, sent in his info and got an offer. Well he had to go to his first program and ask them to let him out of the obligation, which they did. He is happy.

 

[Adam_K]

So a friend of mine and I were discussing the following scenario, and then the following question was posed, and I didnt have the answer. Its an interesting scenario. What if one signed a contract outside the match, and then went through with match, ranking only top choice. This person then matched at top choice- thus, now has two contracts. Besides being unethical-what could/would the potential consequences be?

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/policies/violations.html

1. For completed investigations confirming a material violation of a Participation Agreement by an individual applicant:

(a)The Final Report will be delivered to:

(1) the applicant's medical school official, with a request that the report be placed in the applicant's permanent file
(2) the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates if the applicant is a student/graduate of a foreign medical school
(3) the NRMP institutional officials and directors of the programs included in the applicant's final rank order list in the current matching year
(4) the NRMP institutional official and the program director of the program to which the applicant switched (if known)
(5) the party who originally reported the violation
(6) the NRMP Executive Committee
(7) the American Board of Medical Specialties
(8) the applicant's residency program director if the violation occurred in a fellowship match
(9) the Federation of State Medical Boards if the applicant is to be permanently identified as a match violator or has been permanently barred from future NRMP matches
(10) any parties whom the NRMP has determined are relevant to its investigation.

(b) The applicant may be barred from subsequent NRMP matches and/or identified as a match violator to participating programs for a period of up to three years or permanently, as determined by the NRMP. Violations committed prior to Match Day may result in the applicant being withdrawn from the match.

(c) If the applicant was denied a waiver of his/her match commitment by the NRMP and did not accept the matched position, or if the applicant was the subject of an investigation in which a violation was confirmed, he/she may be barred from accepting a position in another NRMP match-participating program that has a start date within one year from the date of the NRMP's denial of the waiver or the date of the Final Report. If any NRMP match-participating program offers a position to that applicant to commence training during the one-year period or if the applicant accepts such a position, the NRMP will initiate an investigation to determine whether the applicant or the program has violated the terms of the Participation Agreement.

(d) The decision conveyed in the Final Report will be reflected permanently in the Registration, Ranking, and Results (R3) System Applicant Match History. Term limits of any sanction(s) imposed for the violation will be included to identify the length of time the action is in effect.

 

[mig26x]

In other words, if you accept a contract out of match play it safe and withdraw from the match!!

 

[dc2md]

medicineman1,
as i understand it, the program that's giving a prematch must make sure you drop out of the official match. so this can't happen.

 

[res-2007]

(b) The applicant may be barred from subsequent NRMP matches and/or identified as a match violator to participating programs for a period of up to three years or permanently, as determined by the NRMP. Violations committed prior to Match Day may result in the applicant being withdrawn from the match.[/I]

You can be banned permanently and therefore never be able to do a fellowship.

 

[Taty]

So if person accepts a contract she/he participates in oficial match or not?

 

[mmed]

So if person accepts a contract she/he participates in oficial match or not?

Doesn’t matter if you are in match or not, even if you are in match you should withdraw or at least not to certify ROL.

 

[xcerpt]

That person accepted the out of match contract within the next two weeks?? after submitting the list, and unfortunately could not withdraw from the match?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

... that would be a match violation. If you have certified a rank list at this point, you should not take a spot outside the match.

 

[ry812]

That person accepted the out of match contract within the next two weeks?? after submitting the list, and unfortunately could not withdraw from the match?

it's funny that you should present this scenario. my husband was offered a pre-match 2 days ago, in which he was told to come in the following morning to sign his contract and withdraw (yesterday). the coordinator failed to realize that the withdrawal deadline had already passed, the night before. the PD told my husband not to worry about it, he'll take care of everything, and went ahead with the contract. i'm assuming the PD will rank him #1, knowing that my husband ranked them #1, as well. if he matches with them, then there is no violation, is there?

 

[mig26x]

it's funny that you should present this scenario. my husband was offered a pre-match 2 days ago, in which he was told to come in the following morning to sign his contract and withdraw (yesterday). the coordinator failed to realize that the withdrawal deadline had already passed, the night before. the PD told my husband not to worry about it, he'll take care of everything, and went ahead with the contract. i'm assuming the PD will rank him #1, knowing that my husband ranked them #1, as well. if he matches with them, then there is no violation, is there?

How can he rank him number 1 if the deadline for ROL was Feb 21st at 9pm Est time for both applicants and programs?

 

[ry812]

the programs, too? not sure, the PD kept reassuring him "not to worry about anything" so maybe he had already ranked him highly.

 

[mig26x]

yeah, the programs have the same deadline as we applicants have for the ROL certification. So if he was rank highly (rank to match) then there's nothing to worry if your husband ranked them #1.

 

[mmed]

yeah, the programs have the same deadline as we applicants have for the ROL certification. So if he was rank highly (rank to match) then there's nothing to worry if your husband ranked them #1.

If the program ranked him to match and he ranked the program 1st what is the point to sign the contract now or after 3 weeks!!! and both will avoid any probability of violation. Do you know the contact between applicants and programs those days may be questionable. Anyhow, congratulations with the offer and I hope the best with the new higher.

 

[ry812]

If the program ranked him to match and he ranked the program 1st what is the point to sign the contract now or after 3 weeks!!! and both will avoid any probability of violation. Do you know the contact between applicants and programs those days may be questionable. Anyhow, congratulations with the offer and I hope the best with the new higher.

i know it was late in the game, but nonetheless, better than waiting even more. what do you mean by questionable, if you sign a contract, aren't they legally bound to abide by it? so there's a chance he wont get in? now your freaking me out...

 

[Adam_K]

i know it was late in the game, but nonetheless, better than waiting even more. what do you mean by questionable, if you sign a contract, aren't they legally bound to abide by it? so there's a chance he wont get in? now your freaking me out...

Both the program and your husband have violated the match rules.

The program for offering a contract after ROL deadline and your husband for accepting it and not withdrawing from the match.

If your husband does not match at this program, there may be hell to pay.

For instance, if your husband matches elsewhere, he will either need to get a waiver from the program where he matched or come to an understanding with the one where he did sign the prematch offer that they will release him.

Equally difficult is if he does not match at all, but their quota filled with others. Worst case, they may decide not to honor his contract by finding a loophole.

 

[mmed]

i know it was late in the game, but nonetheless, better than waiting even more. what do you mean by questionable, if you sign a contract, aren't they legally bound to abide by it? so there's a chance he wont get in? now your freaking me out...

I think it is better to go through match agreement and know the situation. As I understand it, it is not they will honor the contract or not, The point is; IF this is violation, both the program and the candidate will be in trouble and the candidate can't say for example I don't know b/c he already signed match agreement and certified ROL. Do you know that programs get matched names on March 14 and even if they contact their future residents before March 15 by any mean (direct or indirect) this is a violation!!!

 

[ry812]

actually, he spoke with the coordinator today. she told that IF he happened to match at a different program, than that would be ok. the PD reassured them not to worry about it, so we are assuming that he is high on the ROL. if he doesnt match elsewhere, his position at their program is guaranteed.