I am an egotistical, narcissistic monster! Help!

[Salacious Crumb]

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I am not going to sugar coat this at all...at this point the repercussions of lying to myself would be worse than whatever negative things you all will certainly have to say to me here.

I have been accepted to medical school. After much long and careful introspection, I am afraid matriculating might be the wrong choice, even though I desperately want to be wrong about that.

I am 30 +/- 10%. I am married. I have a job/career. I am moderately compensated. My spouse also has a career. We have no children. My spouse wants me/us to go.

The unguarded truth:
My desire to go to medical school is a result of dissatisfaction with current (and foreseeable) conditions/ hope for greater satisfaction (As I suspect most choices for change are). Specifically, I am unhappy with my job AND what I will call, my station in life.

I'll try not to waste time with why I am dissatisfied, but will instead indicate my hopes for a career in medicine (you can generally safely infer that the strengths I see in medicine are weaknesses I see in my current career).

1) I consider medicine universally important and necessary (i.e., very few things more important). I want to spend my time doing something I value/consider important. Also very much related to this truth, I desire a career where I am not continually concerned about losing my job, the status of the job market if I do, and where I will have to live to get a job/where I can't live because of the field I am in. I also desire compensation sufficient to purchase a house and raise/send children to college. I am going to have to go back to school to achieve this.

2) It may sound/actually be egotistcal but, I desire a position of leadership. In most situations, I feel that I can/should be trusted with big/the final decision and I desire others to feel the same way. In contrast, I am not happy as a supporter (WE have come up with this great idea. YOU go make it happen for us). I would like a chance to invest all of my faculties into making important/significant/worthwhile decisions/be viewed as someone capable of this task.

3) I don't like school or learning. Given a free choice between studying and playing I would always choose the later. I would prefer a job where I just pursue my hobbies for pay, but such jobs either don't exist or are incongruent with the other goals I have listed here. Of the subjects that I do enjoy (though less than my hobbies), the sciences are high on the list. I would probably put wildlife/marine/fisheries biology at the top, but organic chem., physics, physiology would also be high on the list. To head-off any suggestions regarding a career in wildlife biology, let me just say that I am very familiar with advanced careers in that field and they are not hands on enough (all reports/ no playing around with lizards/fish/animals) where as individuals with terminal degrees in medicine actually get to deal with their subject matter directly (people).

4) I do want to help people. I don't think there are many other fields where the potential for this is as great. Similarly, I don't think there are many other ways that you can help another human being that can have such a large impact. I am primarily interested in helping the rural underserved. However, before you think there may be some ray of hope for me yet, I am fairly certain that I only want to help others because it benefits me (i.e, it makes me feel good, needed, intelligent, important, like a good person, better than, happy to make people happy, etc).

Since I could hit almost all of these thing by being a PA or a PT, it is clear to me that issue no. 2 is a very big part of my motivation to pursue medicine, as I really don't have the drive to continue my education toward a PA or PT degree.

Are these motivations insufficient to get me through med school? Will I find that what I am seeking will not be provided by a career in medicine? I am particularly interested in input from docs, residents, MS4s, MS3s, and nontrads. Feel free to PM me if you are more comfortable with that. If you can restrain yourself at all, please resist the desire to post about what a horrible person I am. If you can't help yourself, be honest with me and yourself and post for everyone to see.

Thanks

EDIT: here is the meat of my questions distilled down.
med students,residents,physicians who had similar motivations, did med school/residency/practice chew you up and spit you out thinking that you would have been better off doing something else or did you find that your motivations sustained you through the pressure and the eventual benefit was worth the sacrifice? The last part of the question is primarily for doctors and last year residents. Is the money, job flexibility/security, knowledge that you are working in a field that deals with some of the most important issues in human life, knowledge that you are more socially valuable than many others, perception that you are more intellectually capable than others, positive feelings from helping others existent and rewarding/satisfying?).

 

[bydotte]

i'm a nontrad with a family on the top end of your age range. you're not a horrible person, everybody has their reasons for doing this. the only kink I see is your "dislike of school/learning" - that's pretty much a deal-breaker. Hopefully the dislike of your old life will outweigh that until you get your head in the game.

 

[hawk126]

Join the club brother. Your post might as well describe 90% of the posters on this site, except for the whole "I don't like studying" bit. I agree with the poster above; I just finished first year and if you don't like to study... well, think about doing something else. Good luck.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Seems like you got the drive(hate old life, money, helping others even if to feed your ego), and you got the skillz, nothing to worry about now.

 

[Bearferret]

I would argue that everyone who wants to help people wants to do so for the reasons you listed - we like to help people because it makes us feel good to help people. I've got to imagine that there are very few people who get no positive feeling whatsoever from helping people, but do it anyway because they feel that they ought to. And if they do, they're likely very unhappy.

So with regard to that point, don't worry yourself. When people say "I want to help people," they generally mean what you wrote about it yourself - i.e., "helping people makes me feel good/important/highly-regarded/warm and fuzzy/etc."

 

[Brown8472]

I want to be tactful and truthful with that one. Anyway, the reason why you got accepted was because they saw something in you. Now, I you don't like the fact that you will study to get that degree even before you start, you are probably not in the right place, the right mindset.

Med school is a juggernaut and I am having cold feet myself too (maybe I just can't wait to start this thing). You may be apprehensive about the amount of studying you will do but if you don't like it at all and you are unhappy already, think about studying for Step 1, 2, 3, 4 and then the internship years and the resident years. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

So I say, tighten your belt and get on with it if that is what you want to do. Time flies, soon you won't believe that you are getting close to 40 then 45 and then borderline retirement. 😎

 

[phospho]

3) I don't like school or learning. Given a free choice between studying and playing I would always choose the later. I would prefer a job where I just pursue my hobbies for pay, but such jobs either don't exist or are incongruent with the other goals I have listed here.

Thanks

I think you're confusing "learning" with "studying", which is sitting on your ass for countless hours trying to learn something from a book. Who the heck likes that? I don't know anyone who truly enjoys "studying".

As for "learning", I think human beings by nature are curious. Yes, you see those ocassional idiots who want nothing to do with learning, but people to a certain extent enjoy learning new things (that's why I can't help but laugh when premeds say that they want to go into medicine because they "enjoy learning"). It's so cliche. So, I think you're misjudging yourself in regards to that. How can you have those intellectual hobbies of yours (marine bio, etc...) without enjoying learning? that would be impossible.

As for your other points, dude, don't get me started. Who the hell likes helping people if it weren't for that warm/fuzzy feeling we get? We're selfish people by nature/evolution. There's nothing more I would like to do than medicine, but do you think I'm the next mother Theresea? hell no. if you drop out of medicine, more than 90% of us should drop out (including me)... good job on thinking so deeply about your motivations - you are light years ahead of the majority of us. If anyone says otherwise, there's a good possibility that they're jelous.

good luck!

 

[NotAFelon]

I want to thank you for this post. As I finish up my own application, I really needed to read someone who brings up what I am often afraid to say.

To reiterate most of what other people have said, I feel like I could have written what you just did in your last point. I'm honestly dealing with the same doubting of my core motivations. That is, yes, I think a career dedicating myself toward the good of other people would make me feel good. I also want to do something great with my life, directing it toward the good of humanity, perhaps making some sort of difference in the process. And after careful thought, I have determined that medicine fits in best with those core motivations. But are these motivations actually coming from some deep and abiding sense of altruism? Or are they just some very well disguised manifestations of some irredeemable and ultimately corrupting narcissism that will always be a part of my character. If it's from the latter, I shudder to think of when that narcissism finally bubbles up to the surface, and of the terrible physician I might become.

But what has helped me sort through this question is to look at the writings and thoughts of some people that have dedicated their lives, often above and beyond what is commonly considered humanly possible, to the purpose of helping others. Although appearing constantly and utterly selfless and humble in deed and thought, many of histories greatest saints (saints = a generally applied term) struggled tremendously from the constant self-doubt that results from an internal battle between pride (narcissism) and humility.

You might ask "how should comparing myself to saints make me feel any less narcissistic?" And you honestly may have a point. But I think it personally helps me to think about because it reminds me that everybody, even the greatest and (seemingly) most selfless of us, suffers from that very same internal struggle. And it really is a struggle. And that far from being solely narcissistic or solely altruistic, all of our thoughts and actions have components of both, and at the end of the day it's what we chose to embrace and what we chose to deny that defines the core of our being. And I guess what makes us actually good people (and good doctors) in the end is how we deal with that question, and how we keep our pride at bay.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[phospho]

I want to thank you for this post. As I finish up my own application, I really needed to read someone who brings up what I am often afraid to say.

To reiterate most of what other people have said, I feel like I could have written what you just did in your last point. I'm honestly dealing with the same doubting of my core motivations. That is, yes, I think a career dedicating myself toward the good of other people would make me feel good. I also want to do something great with my life, directing it toward the good of humanity, perhaps making some sort of difference in the process. And after careful thought, I have determined that medicine fits in best with those core motivations. But are these motivations actually coming from some deep and abiding sense of altruism? Or are they just some very well disguised manifestations of some irredeemable and ultimately corrupting narcissism that will always be a part of my character. If it's from the latter, I shudder to think of when that narcissism finally bubbles up to the surface, and of the terrible physician I might become.

But what has helped me sort through this question is to look at the writings and thoughts of some people that have dedicated their lives, often above and beyond what is commonly considered humanly possible, to the purpose of helping others. Although appearing constantly and utterly selfless and humble in deed and thought, many of histories greatest saints (saints = a generally applied term) struggled tremendously from the constant self-doubt that results from an internal battle between pride (narcissism) and humility.

You might ask "how should comparing myself to saints make me feel any less narcissistic?" And you honestly may have a point. But I think it personally helps me to think about because it reminds me that everybody, even the greatest and (seemingly) most selfless of us, suffers from that very same internal struggle. And it really is a struggle. And that far from being solely narcissistic or solely altruistic, all of our thoughts and actions have components of both, and at the end of the day it's what we chose to embrace and what we chose to deny that defines the core of our being. And I guess what makes us actually good people (and good doctors) in the end is how we deal with that question, and how we keep our pride at bay.

Hopefully that makes sense.

welcome to SDN!

awesome post!

 

[Mattabet]

Aww... this thread is full of warm fuzzies! SDN is 'Softie Dr. Network' tonight! I'm not complaining though 👍

I agree with the above, OP. And I just wanted to add one other little thing: You're In. Can you imagine the "what if I had..." later on if you just walked away now without giving it a shot? Sure, it'll be tough sometimes, but there's 10,000 people that would kill for the opportunity we get. Nothings perfect, but you owe it to yourself to give it the old (medical) college try. Best of luck!

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Aww... this thread is full of warm fuzzies! SDN is 'Softie Dr. Network' tonight! I'm not complaining though 👍

I agree with the above, OP. And I just wanted to add one other little thing: You're In. Can you imagine the "what if I had..." later on if you just walked away now without giving it a shot? Sure, it'll be tough sometimes, but there's 10,000 people that would kill for the opportunity we get. Nothings perfect, but you owe it to yourself to give it the old (medical) college try. Best of luck!

Lol

 

[cleoscat3]

What kept you from applying to veterinary school?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

What kept you from applying to veterinary school?

It does sound more in line with the stated interests, especially if it lead to being a zoo vet, but from what I've heard vet schools expect you to slave away as a tech for awhile, so it might not have been a feasible transition given his previous career.

 

[Caprica6]

It does sound more in line with the stated interests, especially if it lead to being a zoo vet, but from what I've heard vet schools expect you to slave away as a tech for awhile, so it might not have been a feasible transition given his previous career.

Not true, I worked at as a technician assistant (no experience necessary)for a few months (3 maybe) and I got accepted into vet school. No volunteer work or ECs either.

 

[MedicineMike]

To the OP: I think Vet school might be an option for you to look into. Especially if you enjoy the sciences, with concentration in wildlife biology, etc. Have you considered?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Not true, I worked at as a technician assistant (no experience necessary)for a few months (3 maybe) and I got accepted into vet school. No volunteer work or ECs either.

Perhaps I've been misled by whiny people. 😉

 

[quiltlady]

How about dentistry? It takes half as long, you make great money and you get to be your own boss. Far fewer work hours, too.

 

[moonshine2]

Nontraditional here also. I have found this process to be very brutal...not just the paperwork, interviews, etc but the amount of time it takes between it all. It's just too much time to think about why, as a nontrad, I shouldn't make the move. The unknown is extremely scary. The fact that I will be giving up a paycheck is extremely scary. I am unhappy in my current career, but I find myself wondering if I should just suck it up and stay put and just be miserable until I can retire. The closer August gets, the more I find myself second guessing this decision and my ability to succeed at it. I am stressing out - this limbo is killing me. But, every now and then I have to take a step back and remind myself that this is something that I investigated thoroughly before I applied. Everything I did pointed me in this direction. I applied, interviewed, and by some small miracle was accepted. I am making the right decision, I just need to stop thinking about it so much.

 

[saveourpens]

uhhm, you're pretty normal. People do something because they want something. Not one action is truly altruistic.

I challenge anyone to give me one example of an action that is 100% selfless.

 

[Van Chowder]

uhhm, you're pretty normal. People do something because they want something. Not one action is truly altruistic.

I challenge anyone to give me one example of an action that is 100% selfless.

Challenge ACCEPTED!!
Ok! Remember that friends episode where joey lets the bee sting him to look cool in front of his bee friends? but the bee died, so then it didnt help?
Well swap that bee for a wasp, and BAAM! The wasp stings you, looks cool in front of its wasp friends,doesnt die ANDJoey had nothing to gain from it!!😎😎😎

 

[Kaya12]

Good post. I don't think you are a narcissist, as one who was would never define oneself as such.... Good luck mate 🙂

 

[Salacious Crumb]

I have been away for awhile (playing) so I am just now getting back to this thread/dilemma. First, thank you everyone for your responses. They are appreciated. I would really love input from medical students, residents, and doctors. How do I solicit their opinions?

Second, I am a little surprised at the kind remarks (though I appreciate them). However, what I believe that I am trying to say here is that I do not want to become a doctor because I love medicine, but, instead, because I love myself! I want a secure job that allows me to live wherever I want. Furthermore, I want a job that pays enough so I don’t need to worry about money much/as much (afraid to buy a house/have children cause of my current job/career). I know that one of my main reasons for pursuing a medical degree is that I believe that society views doctors as more academically capable/socially valuable/important/needed/etc than +90% society. I imagine many people would quibble with this statement, but I believe that this fascination can be seen in the number of TV shows that feature medicine as the primary subject matter. Or, ask anyone this question: “If the world could only have physicians or ‘fill in blank with other profession here’ which would you choose?”, and see what happens. Anyway, that is how I desire to be viewed. In contrast, my current job could be satisfactorily performed by a toaster oven and I suspect that this is realized by all.

Anyway, these seem to be exceptionally narcisictic/selfish objectives and I can’t believe that these will get me through/SHOULD get me through med school.



Thanks again

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Anyway, these seem to be exceptionally narcisictic/selfish objectives and I can’t believe that these will get me through/SHOULD get me through med school.

Most medical students are not in medical school for altruistic reasons. Look at how many first year students want to be ortho surgeons. Look at how many FM and IM residency programs don't fill each year. You won't be alone.

 

[MedMan25]

I think you're confusing "learning" with "studying", which is sitting on your ass for countless hours trying to learn something from a book. Who the heck likes that? I don't know anyone who truly enjoys "studying".
good luck!

I actually know a few people who truly enjoy "studying". I'm not one of them and I know plenty of others in med school who think studying sucks just as much as I do. I enjoy the knowledge I've gained after I torture myself my studying for hours on end, but I would never say I enjoy studying. There is lots of stuff on the list of things I enjoy doing, studying has no place on that list.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I have been away for awhile (playing) so I am just now getting back to this thread/dilemma. First, thank you everyone for your responses. They are appreciated. I would really love input from medical students, residents, and doctors. How do I solicit their opinions?

Well this is the pre-med forum, so you'd expect to get more traffic and responses from pre-meds. Though you did get quite a few responses from medical students... Other areas do get more traffic of the kind you're interested in, but I'd ask a mod first to avoid posting a thread that is off-topic...

 

[Salacious Crumb]

I think you're confusing "learning" with "studying", which is sitting on your ass for countless hours trying to learn something from a book. Who the heck likes that? I don't know anyone who truly enjoys "studying".

As for "learning", I think human beings by nature are curious. Yes, you see those ocassional idiots who want nothing to do with learning, but people to a certain extent enjoy learning new things (that's why I can't help but laugh when premeds say that they want to go into medicine because they "enjoy learning"). It's so cliche. So, I think you're misjudging yourself in regards to that. How can you have those intellectual hobbies of yours (marine bio, etc...) without enjoying learning? that would be impossible.

I might agree with you and the reason I separated the two was simply carelessness of thought? I might say that studying is method of learning and that I don't like to study. I can study. I just hate every second of it (sort of like sitting in traffic). I have around 200 units of college credit and I always did well in my courses...BUT I have hated studying for all of them. I believe experiencing to be another form of learning, and I do enjoy this. I don't think i would consider "knowing things" to be a subclass of learning, but a product of some form of learning, and I enjoy "knowing things." Anyway the point is I can successfully learn by studying, but I hate it.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

To the OP: I think Vet school might be an option for you to look into. Especially if you enjoy the sciences, with concentration in wildlife biology, etc. Have you considered?

I don't believe that vets compensation is comparable to physicians. Secondly, getting into vet school is competitive and it would require more coursework. Also, vet school, if I understand it correctly, is four years and very challenging. These facts alone really are not the barrier however. I can't say this without offending people so please realize that this is just one person's opinion but... if your cat has leukemia that is unfortunate, if your sister Kat has leukemia, that is serious. If the world could only have vets or physicians which would you pick? <--this line of reasoning should emphasize my narcissistic motivations.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

How about dentistry? It takes half as long, you make great money and you get to be your own boss. Far fewer work hours, too.

see main point of discussion RE: vet school.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Well this is the pre-med forum, so you'd expect to get more traffic and responses from pre-meds. Though you did get quite a few responses from medical students... Other areas do get more traffic of the kind you're interested in, but I'd ask a mod first to avoid posting a thread that is off-topic...

I started this discussion in the allopathic forum, but it was moved. MODERATOR: Is it possible to get a thread dual-posted? Or perhaps, posted in the allopathic forum for a while and then moved back to the pre-med forum for reference? Thank you for any consideration you can afford.