I enjoy this career, I'm fine with being pimped with questions, but attendings that are temperamental are hard to work with.

[Robin-jay]

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As the title says. I have an extremely relaxed temperament and am never angry or "a jerk". I would say 80-90% of attendings are fairly reasonable, down-to-earth human beings, but some just aren't.

I also don't understand attendings that are horrible to their residents/students but nice to their patients.

But some attendings are just extremely hard to work with. They throw tantrums, act childish, and and just temperamental.

I guess I'm just wondering how you guys deal with situations like this and what your mindset is? It makes clinic absolutely miserable for me.

I just suck it up, stay quiet, do what I need to do, and go home. But it does just make my day ****ty. I guess I need to grow a thicker skin, but when attendings treat you poorly, it's the only time I significantly wonder if this career path is even what I should be doing. Whereas when the attendings are generally "nice, patient, etc."...I feel as though the career seems fine.

edit: Well, I guess it also adds to worry and anxiety during externships and/or residencies because when they treat you poorly and think you're not doing well enough, etc...then I'm worried they could fail you and it could cause a lot of issues.

So it's not even just the fact they are temperamental, it's the significant consequences they could impose on you if they end up not liking you enough.

I don't know. What are your thoughts?

 

[AttackNME]

They do it because they can, but it’s also very selfish behavior. They don’t care about the feelings of students, and so it can act as your filter to know which programs to avoid then if that’s not your jam. This behavior is pervasive across all industries where there is a big gap between the trainer-trainee experience. It’s not special to podiatry

 

[Robin-jay]

They do it because they can, but it’s also very selfish behavior. They don’t care about the feelings of students, and so it can act as your filter to know which programs to avoid then if that’s not your jam. This behavior is pervasive across all industries where there is a big gap between the trainer-trainee experience. It’s not special to podiatry

Well, I guess it also adds to worry and anxiety during externships and/or residencies because when they treat you poorly and think you're not doing well enough, etc...then I'm worried they could fail you and it could cause a lot of issues.

So it's not even just the fact they are temperamental, it's the significant consequences they could impose on you if they end up not liking you enough.

 

[deleted285117]

Extra luggage. Drop them out of your thoughts and move on.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I just suck it up, stay quiet, do what I need to do, and go home.

You answered your question. This is another phase that we all went through. Play the game and learn from these experiences. When you are an attending someday, be better.

 

[PTPuser]

I've learned to accept that some people are just nasty.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Having thick skin is crucial for externships and residency. The residents and attendings I've worked with who've been particularly nasty (my IM chief resident lol) are also very burnt out. Don't take it personal, its a reflection of how they feel about their situation 90 percent of the time.

 

[Robin-jay]

Having thick skin is crucial for externships and residency. The residents and attendings I've worked with who've been particularly nasty (my IM chief resident lol) are also very burnt out. Don't take it personal, its a reflection of how they feel about their situation 90 percent of the time.

I suppose what's worrisome the most is if you get on their bad side enough to the point where they would actively try to cut you out of an externship/residency.

Its more so the tangible consequences that just the person being rude.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I work out of a community hospital with a FM residency and I always try to be cool to the residents even if they page me over truly inconsequential issues. And verbal abuse/tantrums are never appropriate.

But for all the stresses I put up with as an attending, I could see myself not suffering foolishness gracefully.

 

[Robin-jay]

I work out of a community hospital with a FM residency and I always try to be cool to the residents even if they page me over truly inconsequential issues. And verbal abuse/tantrums are never appropriate.

But for all the stresses I put up with as an attending, I could see myself not suffering foolishness gracefully.

What would be foolishness to you?

 

[DPMGuy]

As the title says. I have an extremely relaxed temperament and am never angry or "a jerk". I would say 80-90% of attendings are fairly reasonable, down-to-earth human beings, but some just aren't.

I also don't understand attendings that are horrible to their residents/students but nice to their patients.

But some attendings are just extremely hard to work with. They throw tantrums, act childish, and and just temperamental.

I guess I'm just wondering how you guys deal with situations like this and what your mindset is? It makes clinic absolutely miserable for me.

I just suck it up, stay quiet, do what I need to do, and go home. But it does just make my day ****ty. I guess I need to grow a thicker skin, but when attendings treat you poorly, it's the only time I significantly wonder if this career path is even what I should be doing. Whereas when the attendings are generally "nice, patient, etc."...I feel as though the career seems fine.

edit: Well, I guess it also adds to worry and anxiety during externships and/or residencies because when they treat you poorly and think you're not doing well enough, etc...then I'm worried they could fail you and it could cause a lot of issues.

So it's not even just the fact they are temperamental, it's the significant consequences they could impose on you if they end up not liking you enough.

I don't know. What are your thoughts?

Another reason this profession sucks and is not at all worth it is the abuse you endure from some loser attendings (and some residents when you’re a student). They’re arrogant about being doctors but the further you go in your career you realize that most of them actually are not good. Regardless, whether they are good or not this behavior is inappropriate. Mean attendings are pieces of **** who take advantage of the position they are in and abuse the students because the students are not in a position to defend themselves. Outside of work they are cowards. Deep down they are insecure and need to put others down to build themselves up. They can go to hell.

 

[Robin-jay]

Another reason this profession sucks and is not at all worth it is the abuse you endure from some loser attendings (and some residents when you’re a student). They’re arrogant about being doctors but the further you go in your career you realize that most of them actually are not good. Regardless, whether they are good or not this behavior is inappropriate. Mean attendings are pieces of **** who take advantage of the position they are in and abuse the students because the students are not in a position to defend themselves. Outside of work they are cowards. Deep down they are insecure and need to put others down to build themselves up. They can go to hell.

What worries me the most is how much say they have in passing a student/resident through the program. I can't tell if when they are temperamental if it's a sign they are just angry, annoyed, etc. or if they could potentially dislike you enough to ruin your career.

 

[Weirdy]

What worries me the most is how much say they have in passing a student/resident through the program. I can't tell if when they are temperamental if it's a sign they are just angry, annoyed, etc. or if they could potentially dislike you enough to ruin your career.

You're thinking too much. You've mentioned this aspect 3 times already.

Out of site out of mind.

1 attending speaking ill on your behalf isn't going to break you if you've got 2 others and a ton of residents who like your work ethic and personality.

And if that 1 attending DOES have a say in things to get you dropped subjectively from the program despite multiple people vouching for you, is it really a program you want to end up at?

 

[Hybrocure]

Most attendings like that are tools, and karma has a way of coming back to bite them eventually.

You can be an amazing surgeon AND be a nice person despite what some think. The most skilled surgeons I worked with in residency (ortho surgeons and well trained/published DPMs) were very nice people both in and out of the OR.

I know where you’re coming from though, I externed at places with aggressive attendings, take solace in the fact youll probably find them in a PM News article for kickbacks or fraud one day. In my experience the programs I was at who had mean attendings I had no desire to even interview because of it, so whether that affected my chances wasn’t even on my radar because it was me who wrote them off because of their actions, not the other way around.

That being said - it’s important to understand the difference between attendings just joking around or if someone is truly toxic. Some attendings can be stern with good intentions. Some like to joke around to a point where someone with poor social adjustment might take that as offensive. This is something that will always exist in life and is more of an adjustment you will need to make yourself.

But yeah, some people are also just plain old curmudgeons who have no place teaching.

 

[Adam Smasher]

What would be foolishness to you?

I've never worked with podiatry students so I don't know. I don't even know what to expect from you guys. I don't care if you're unprepared, you're not operating so it's your own fault if you get nothing out of surgery but no reason for me to get angry.

If a resident made mistakes that slow the case down (and therefore force me to work extra hard) I would be peeved. Ex: medication error on anticoagulants

 

[heybrother]

All you can do it try to be better when you are a resident/attending. Unfortunately, being a sociopath is not confined to being some old grouchy attending. Hands down, the worst people I met during my 4th year were residents. Can a resident/attending deny you their program? Probably. Every program's selection process is different. Supposedly my program director once picked a student everyone else said not to pick. How much time do you really get with a PD though. How democratic is the process? Can they ruin your career - almost certaintly not. In general, once you are gone that's the end of it. You were just someone to be abused while they had you in their power.

 

[Robin-jay]

All you can do it try to be better when you are a resident/attending. Unfortunately, being a sociopath is not confined to being some old grouchy attending. Hands down, the worst people I met during my 4th year were residents. Can a resident/attending deny you their program? Probably. Every program's selection process is different. Supposedly my program director once picked a student everyone else said not to pick. How much time do you really get with a PD though. How democratic is the process? Can they ruin your career - almost certaintly not. In general, once you are gone that's the end of it. You were just someone to be abused while they had you in their power.

I don't know, all I know is I've never had any issues with an attending until now, and it's brutal. Although it's only a few more weeks. It feels like eternity. I'm trying my best but still get yelled at, demeaned, and belittled for something.

I've never had any major academic issues, where I was on probabation or anything. I've never had issues with any other attending, and I work extremely hard to show I'm trying my best.

Yes, it is true that this attending is perhaps the most well-known attending for being a jerk near this area, but that provides little relief to me.

I'm at a loss because I've never been in a position where I try my hardest and still get railed verbally. I am legitimately worried I'll fail this rotation.

 

[heybrother]

I don't know, all I know is I've never had any issues with an attending until now, and it's brutal. Although it's only a few more weeks. It feels like eternity. I'm trying my best but still get yelled at, demeaned, and belittled for something.

I've never had any major academic issues, where I was on probabation or anything. I've never had issues with any other attending, and I work extremely hard to show I'm trying my best.

Yes, it is true that this attending is perhaps the most well-known attending for being a jerk near this area, but that provides little relief to me.

I'm at a loss because I've never been in a position where I try my hardest and still get railed verbally. I am legitimately worried I'll fail this rotation.

I'm not familiar with people failing rotations. This is one of the interesting differences between podiatry and "medicine". Our rotations essentially function as auditions with the goal being a solid performance increases your likelihood of matching at said location. A poor rotation likely closes the door to the program. Obviously you can fail but in a world of underwhelming students this still doesn't seem to be happening often at this stage of the game. I can't think of a rotation I went on where I received any sort of evaluation along the way that would let me know if I was passing or failing. If you truly believe you are failing, you should consider speaking to someone at the program about their expectations and whether you are meeting them or not. I'm somewhat skeptical you are the first person this attending has had a problem with.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

If you're worried about failing reach out to your school clinic person and tell them your situation. tell them you are trying super hard but things aren't working out. It takes a lot for people to fail a rotation but letting your advisor know now that you're having issues will protect you later if they were to faill you

 

[Robin-jay]

I'm not familiar with people failing rotations. This is one of the interesting differences between podiatry and "medicine". Our rotations essentially function as auditions with the goal being a solid performance increases your likelihood of matching at said location. A poor rotation likely closes the door to the program. Obviously you can fail but in a world of underwhelming students this still doesn't seem to be happening often at this stage of the game. I can't think of a rotation I went on where I received any sort of evaluation along the way that would let me know if I was passing or failing. If you truly believe you are failing, you should consider speaking to someone at the program about their expectations and whether you are meeting them or not. I'm somewhat skeptical you are the first person this attending has had a problem with.

If you're worried about failing reach out to your school clinic person and tell them your situation. tell them you are trying super hard but things aren't working out. It takes a lot for people to fail a rotation but letting your advisor know now that you're having issues will protect you later if they were to faill you

I don't want to divulge too much information, but I will say many people I know have had major issues with this attending. He has a reputation of being a "difficult" attending to work with, but I don't think the school really cares.

I'm not sure if I'm actually in the cross-hairs of failing or not, and I don't want to become an even bigger target on the radar, so I don't want to get anyone involved yet.

I also try to keep my head low, and do what I need to do, but that isn't even working.

I've never been in a predicament with an attending where I'm giving full effort, keeping my head down, saying "yes sir, no sir", and still for some reason being targeted pretty hard.

 

[heybrother]

Everything you are saying is what people say when they are being abused by an attending. Every abusive resident I met had abused classmates of mine in prior months. My suspicion is everyone who experiences this tries to adjust their behavior (it isn't the problem), avoid the crosshairs, adjust their performance while enjoying a month of anxious diarrhea or hidden tears. You say you are concerned about failure. I've presented you an option. In the end, you probably won't fail. If people were being failed the schools would actually have to do something about it because the same people would try to fail students over and over again.

In a better world - people would be able to give malignant residencies the finger, but this is podiatry.

 

[Weirdy]

I don't want to divulge too much information, but I will say many people I know have had major issues with this attending. He has a reputation of being a "difficult" attending to work with, but I don't think the school really cares.

I'm not sure if I'm actually in the cross-hairs of failing or not, and I don't want to become an even bigger target on the radar, so I don't want to get anyone involved yet.

I also try to keep my head low, and do what I need to do, but that isn't even working.

I've never been in a predicament with an attending where I'm giving full effort, keeping my head down, saying "yes sir, no sir", and still for some reason being targeted pretty hard.

If you are struggling that hard, talk to your assigned advisor.

Doesn't even have to be anything too formal. Email them and give them an update on how you're doing. Tell them explicitly you are having trouble doing your best with Dr. ---- specifically and what you've tried to do to fix things.

As mentioned above, at least it brings awareness to your own school's staff so they are on your side and are aware of the issue if you need it after the rotation is over.

 

[FutureDPM123]

Failing a rotation is extremely rare and usually means you didn’t show up at all. Also, usually a resident or the director fills out the evaluation

 

[Creflo]

Read the book "The Bait of Satan" by John Bevere. And check out "The 10 Commandments of Working In a Hostile Environment" by TD Jakes. Both publications will give you life long lessons that will help you get through podiatry school and residency. This attending won't be the last one like this. There are lots of these personalities in the medical field.

 

[Hybrocure]

Read the book "The Bait of Satan" by John Bevere. And check out "The 10 Commandments of Working In a Hostile Environment" by TD Jakes. Both publications will give you life long lessons that will help you get through podiatry school and residency. This attending won't be the last one like this. There are lots of these personalities in the medical field.

I would say any field of work. This is just human nature for some people in positions of power

 

[air bud]

Anxious diarrhea

 

[p100]

As stated previously there are lots of different personalities in every job sector. Learn from them, use it to improve yourself, don't take anything personally, and move on with life. Those who who don't get angry, who can be in any situation and take a step back to re-evaluate from an outside perspective, will be more successful and a more simple life.

As a first year resident I had horrible 3rd year resident and excellent 2nd year residents. The social skills I learned from the sneaky a**hole 3rd years was more valuable than the enjoyableness of working with the 2nd years.

This is a nice poem by Rudyard Kipling.

If …

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings – nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run –
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And – which is more – you’ll be a Man my son!

 

[DexterMorganSK]

As the title says. I have an extremely relaxed temperament and am never angry or "a jerk". I would say 80-90% of attendings are fairly reasonable, down-to-earth human beings, but some just aren't.

I also don't understand attendings that are horrible to their residents/students but nice to their patients.

But some attendings are just extremely hard to work with. They throw tantrums, act childish, and and just temperamental.

I guess I'm just wondering how you guys deal with situations like this and what your mindset is? It makes clinic absolutely miserable for me.

I just suck it up, stay quiet, do what I need to do, and go home. But it does just make my day ****ty. I guess I need to grow a thicker skin, but when attendings treat you poorly, it's the only time I significantly wonder if this career path is even what I should be doing. Whereas when the attendings are generally "nice, patient, etc."...I feel as though the career seems fine.

edit: Well, I guess it also adds to worry and anxiety during externships and/or residencies because when they treat you poorly and think you're not doing well enough, etc...then I'm worried they could fail you and it could cause a lot of issues.

So it's not even just the fact they are temperamental, it's the significant consequences they could impose on you if they end up not liking you enough.

I don't know. What are your thoughts?

It sounds like you are in the class of 2023...if you did not hear back from the Admins by now about making anything up, you are fine. Leave the school admins/faculty behind, and look forward to your residency years. These types of attendings/patients/people, in general, will always be around; the lesson is to learn how to deal with them without getting emotional or judgemental. If you know your stuff, you will do good. Be kind, smart, and respectful towards others (especially your future nurses), and you will do amazing things. Good luck moving on.

Locking!