I got in to both M.D. and D.O.

[Instatewaiter]

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I was truly looking for FACTS and data about the two schools and what other people might do in my situation. I am torn between the two because there seem to be lots of pros and cons.

One thing about VCOM that impressed me was there commitment to outreach in appalachia and central america. I also liked their systems-based block schedule and the location is so much better (I would choose Blacksburg over Richmond any day) because I do not like cities as much.

Plus, it seems that 40+ sites at VCOM is more than enough to do clerkships at. Why would you need more than 40 as if that weren't enough? (someone mentioned this earlier in the thread).

I do like the fact that VCU has the hospital right there. That is huge.

But I feel that I am getting such a mixed report about specializing. All the D.O. faculty say that there is no problem going into any specialty you want. In fact, they emphasize the fact that you actually have MORE options than M.D.'s do because of all the so-called "osteopathic-only" residencies.

I have this feeling that if I posted my original question in the "pre-osteopathic" thread I would have gotten almost 99% of the people saying "Go DO!"

So maybe it is all just perspective.

You all have given me a lot to think about!

If you are interested in outreach and taking care of the underserved, VCU takes care of about almost all of the indigent patients in central virginia and about 50%-60% of the indigent patients of ALL of Virginia. They also have a yearly medical mission trip to Honduras if you are looking for medical missions to central america.

Having 40 places to rotate is actually a bad thing. It means that each site is not big enough to accomodate many students and it means you will have to travel to many different sites. Instead of learning medicine, you will have to spend time at each site learning how that site runs. Furthermore, since each site is small, it also means that you will probably not see many rare or interesting cases because those will get sent to tertiary care centers like VCU or UVA.

In terms of specializing, you are going to have a much easier time at an MD school. There are not very many osteopathic only residencies and they tend to be in undesirable locations. So, yes, DOs have their own residencies but in general, MD residencies are in larger hospitals and deliver better training, which is why more than half of DOs ditch osteopathic education for MD residencies.

I think it would be foolish to choose VCOM. VCU will open more doors.

As always, what really matters is outcomes. Do data exist for how MDs and DOs do in the MD match, especially for more competitive specialties?

See page 29/97
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf

Numbers of DOs who matched
2006- 0 ENT 3 in orth
2007- 0 ENT 2in orth
2008- 1 in ENT 2 in orth
2009- 0 ENT 5 in orth
2010- 1 in ENT 3 in orth

Overall, match rate in ACGME match for DOs is 70.6% while it is 93.3% for MDs

 

[OtoHNS]

Once again, if you think there is any reasonable chance that you will want to apply to a competitive specialty, you have to go to an MD school.

I've worked with both DOs and MDs- there is no difference between the two in my mind. Both are equally qualified to practice medicine. The human body and all its diseases are the same wherever you might go to medical school.

However, competitive residencies receive hundreds of applications each year for 1-4 positions (ENT) or maybe 4-10 spots (Ortho). Almost all of these applicants have good grades and are qualified for the position. How do you think programs weed out applicants so they can interview a manageable number?

For example my ENT residency matched 2 people a year. We generally got around 200 applications, of which roughly 30 got an interview. If there is any reason to reject an application pre-interview, it will be rejected. Not because we were prejudiced against DOs or FMGs or whatever, but because we HAD to in order to pare down the list of qualified applicants.

The key to matching into a competitive specialty is to apply broadly and get a lot of interviews. Why would you deliberately choose a school that will ensure that you are rejected pre-interview from almost every residency you apply to?

 

[Parts Unknown]

and the location is so much better (I would choose Blacksburg over Richmond any day) because I do not like cities as much.

Richmond isn't exactly New York City. I'm willing to bet that if you commute 20 minutes you can easily find yourself living in BFE.

Plus, it seems that 40+ sites at VCOM is more than enough to do clerkships at. Why would you need more than 40 as if that weren't enough? (someone mentioned this earlier in the thread).

As Instate (who has done a very nice job on this thread, BTW) stated, this is not a good thing. Your residency, which will define your entire career, will rest on the strength of your clerkship training. The experience you will receive at a large urban hospital with established residency programs (and direct contact with program directors, who will be instrumental in landing you that ENT or ortho match) >>>>> driving from one rural speck of a hospital to the next.

But I feel that I am getting such a mixed report about specializing. All the D.O. faculty say that there is no problem going into any specialty you want. In fact, they emphasize the fact that you actually have MORE options than M.D.'s do because of all the so-called "osteopathic-only" residencies.

This is true for some less competitive specialties, but not the ones you are looking at. If you find yourself in DO school with virtually no chance of matching into an allopathic ortho or ENT spot, you have effectively limited your options to those listed on http://www.opportunities.osteopathic.org/

Allow me to flesh out the match numbers a bit more:
2010 Ortho match:
Total spots in match: 656
Senior MD matches: 598
Total DO matches: 3

2010 ENT match:
Total spots in match: 280
Senior MD matches: 259
Total DO matches: 1

You will only get one shot at your undergraduate medical training, and it will be in your best interest to stop thinking about the next four years and start thinking about the next 40.

 

[Aspiring1]

Once again, if you think there is any reasonable chance that you will want to apply to a competitive specialty, you have to go to an MD school.

So what if the MD school is third tier vs. the best D.O school? Does the reputation of the school have a lot of weight in the residency match process?

 

[Parts Unknown]

So what if the MD school is third tier vs. the best D.O school? Does the reputation of the school have a lot of weight in the residency match process?

There are many possible factors at play, but here is one way to look at it:

Every domestic MD graduate has:
1. Come from an LCME-accredited school
2. Taken the USMLE

The standards of this accreditation are one of the major limiting steps for the creation of new MD schools, as it can be quite difficult to establish adequate clinical training sites according to LCME standards. Also, USMLE scores provide a convenient, if somewhat flawed, method of comparing students directly.

In contrast, a DO graduate:
1. Comes from a COCA-accredited school
2. May or may not have taken the USMLE

COCA's standards for clinical clerkships are, quite frankly, less rigorous than the LCME's. That fact in part explains the recent proliferation of DO schools. From the standpoint of an allopathic residency program director, MD training is a relatively stable, known quantity. DO training, maybe not so much.

 

[Coug42]

ENT is a relatively small specialty, and connections are going to play a part in that to some degreee. Lets just say you do end up wanting to go into ENT...Who is going to write your LORs for residency if you go to VCOM? Do they have an ENT department, with well known faculty in that specialty at VCOM? The other thing that comes to mind is Research opportunities. Due to the the fact that ENT is competitive, most applicants become involved in research opportunities during med school, and some even publish before applying for residency.

I'm fairly certain that they do have an ENT department at VCU, along with faculty to write you LORs when the time comes. I have a few friends at VCU and they love it. They have also mentioned how much help VCU provides them with when it comes time to take the Step 1. Afterall, Costanzo does teach at VCU, and I've heard that she holds review sessions towards the end of the second year to help students prepare.

Go wherever you think you will be able to perform the best. Think long and hard too about the quality of the Clinical Education you will get at each school. Consider where you will do your rotations, and how much time they allow you for elective rotations.

 

[Mbeas]

I'm fairly certain that they do have an ENT department at VCU, along with faculty to write you LORs when the time comes. I have a few friends at VCU and they love it. They have also mentioned how much help VCU provides them with when it comes time to take the Step 1. Afterall, Costanzo does teach at VCU, and I've heard that she holds review sessions towards the end of the second year to help students prepare.

.

she retired.

and Arnold's arms are beast

 

[tkim]

DO here. Go to VCU. This is not to crap on VCOM, but VCU is the older, more well-established school, with a larger network of alums and it's own hospital.