I hate organic chemistry more than anything

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jorge921995

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It sucks so bad. The thing is, if I hate it this much, is med school even for me? I might even consider dropping this summer, but that would 4 Ws, because of 3 from my earlier semesters. I hate this class so much, I can barely force myself to study it because I lose interest and focus on it quickly. Sorry, I had to vent, now I have to finish my HW on SN2,SN1, E2 and E1.
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Lots of people hate organic chemistry but it's one of those things you just have to get through it. Personally I think that the medical schools like it because it is very diagnostic in nature. If a patient comes in and tells you a bunch of symptoms, you have to be able to tell which ones are relevant, which ones you have to throw out, and what other information you might need to get the right diagnosis. Likewise, if you are given a reactant with a bunch of different reagents you have to figure out what information might be superfluous, if you need to know anything else like temperature, etc. in order to get the right product. I love organic chemistry!
 
If you just force yourself to truly learn basic mechanisms (S2N, S1N, E1, E2) and why they are different from each other, the rest will be very easy! Think of these mechanisms as 4 basic "equations" and every organic synthesis can be solved using them.
 
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Whether you like organic chemistry shouldn't have any bearing on whether you think medicine is for you. Physicians don't use organic chemistry on a day-to-day basis. In fact, most don't use organic chemistry at all. They'd be hard-pressed to tell you what a Michael addition looks like and what does 1,4 versus 1,2 conjugate additions. It's just not very relevant to medicine as practiced in the clinic. However, you should approach organic chemistry in the following manner. You're going to encounter many challenging courses and just challenges in general as you continue on the path to medicine. How are you going to handle them? Are you going to turn back at every opportunity or are you going to figure out ways to leap over those hurdles? If the former, then you're right, maybe you should choose a different profession. If the latter, then start now. Figure out why you dislike it. Is it because you're doing poorly or because you don't understand it? Then think about how to improve your study habits and what other resources are out there. Go to your TAs' office hours. We have them for a reason. We want to help you succeed but to do that, you must help yourself first.
 
bananafish94 said:
Lots of people hate organic chemistry but it's one of those things you just have to get through it. Personally I think that the medical schools like it because it is very diagnostic in nature. If a patient comes in and tells you a bunch of symptoms, you have to be able to tell which ones are relevant, which ones you have to throw out, and what other information you might need to get the right diagnosis. Likewise, if you are given a reactant with a bunch of different reagents you have to figure out what information might be superfluous, if you need to know anything else like temperature, etc. in order to get the right product. I love organic chemistry!
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4/10 humblebrag 😎

OP, do you have related and fun labs with the lecture?

I think solid lab is where a love of hard science is born

You might enjoy the history and "modern day" layman applications that are often tangentially related to in the sidebars of whatever of a lot of O Chem texts. That sort of thing made me feel closer to it and like it mattered more.

I can say O chem taught me how to make moonshine, biodiesel, soap, candles, and how to synthesize lidocaine, for the zombocalypse. I found o chem --> biochem --> med school to be a very useful educational base for any health science to come before me. Knowledge is power.

O Chem requires a lot of memorization of very foreign material, a whole new conceptual system of thought, and problem solving is often multiple steps. Lab is being very detail oriented while using your hands. Good doc traits.
O chem incidentally deepens your understanding of biochem. Obvs you learn a lot of non-physiologic reactions you don't seem to need to know but it's all part of learning how electrons move - which is important even if it's not sexy.
It also helps arm you to solve actual medical problems in labs and do research.

Some of the things I've said may not apply to you
Some of the things I've said may offend you
But no matter who you are, you must remember this one thing
No matter what a doctor says
O Chem does matter
~ my adaptation of Chris Rock "No Sex in the Champagne Room"
 
Push through, use youtube videos if you need help. I'm sure there are other threads on here that contain that kind of info. You can do this!!!!
 
I think of all the reasons listed above o chem is the best course to meet all those goals and acts as a weed out to boot
If you want to make a case for more science than you need, I might say physics, but only having one and not the other just feels like such an incomplete understanding of the material world

@PriamTRH your gif avatar is giving me a pseudoseizure
 
We do have lab. But the lab in my school has nothing to do with the lecture thus far. For example, we're learning substitution and elimination in lecture. But in lab, we've only been distilling and extracting substances, which I find pretty fun. But I like to apply what I've learned in lecture to the lab, but I can't if they're not related.
 
jorge921995 said:
We do have lab. But the lab in my school has nothing to do with the lecture thus far. For example, we're learning substitution and elimination in lecture. But in lab, we've only been distilling and extracting substances, which I find pretty fun. But I like to apply what I've learned in lecture to the lab, but I can't if they're not related.
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Extractions are fundamental to chemistry and you can't really apply anything without knowing how to isolate substances first. Reactions are rarely quantitative and without side products so once you're done with a reaction, you have to be able to isolate it. In many chemistry courses, they even teach column separations which I think is a fine way of going about it all. The actual characterization of your products isn't much fun. You won't ever be able to see molecules colliding in a reaction - the closest you'll get is if you have a chromophore as reactant and/or product and can monitor it using UV.
 
If I can be a chemist for 10 years with a contempt for organic, you can make it through med school. Suck it up, buttercup. 😀

But seriously, are you taking organic over the summer? You poor, poor soul.
 
I loved Orgo. Really, I loved Klein. Didn't even look at my class notes just read the chapters and did every practice problem. Klein made orgo fun. I was never confused. If your class doesn't use Klein, go buy it.
 
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"I hate organic chemistry more than anything." Oh boy, we've all been there. :laugh: You can do it OP!
 
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You too!?!

jorge921995 said:
It sucks so bad. The thing is, if I hate it this much, is med school even for me? I might even consider dropping this summer, but that would 4 Ws, because of 3 from my earlier semesters. I hate this class so much, I can barely force myself to study it because I lose interest and focus on it quickly. Sorry, I had to vent, now I have to finish my HW on SN2,SN1, E2 and E1.
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tskbdmnd said:
Two words: David Klein
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This. David Klein's Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. Get the 1st and 2nd semester books. Can't even begin to describe how much these books made orgo way simpler to me. I also used it to study for the orgo section of the mcat so pretty good investment in my opinion.
 
Organic chemistry is a weed-out course at many schools for this very reason: testing the academic commitment of pre-health students.

OP, do you hate the course because the material doesn't stick, or because it's simply uninteresting material? If it's the former, you need to reevaluate your study habits. If it's the latter, then... well, to be straightforward, tough luck. The material isn't what's relevant in med school. It's your skill in applying what you know to particularly difficult and sometimes new situations.

It's a different experience for everyone. You need the course on your application to matriculate. Your choice in the end. Best of luck to you.
 
I've been told a lot that if you have any issues with any of the weed out course, to rethink. Because if you hate the weed out courses, you won't fare well in med school.
 
i hated ochem. i got C's in all the quarters.
then a year later after i graduated i took it at a CC. i like ochem much more now. but the thing that sucks is int taking both semesters of ochem. My cc does not give +/- grades. i have like an 88 in one of the classes and the professor gave me a B!!!!! i got 80th percentile on the ACS exam. this made me more mad than anything. i want to teach it personally because i ****ing know the subject a lot more. the first time t took it i knew **** and it was hard. but taking it again at a CC , i approached it differently and it was better. this class was both lab and lec. i did fine on the labs, but i wasted os much time in lab. that was annoying but the fact that i got a B is so annoying. take it at a cc but give it some time after you take it initially.
 
blacksweater said:
This. David Klein's Organic Chemistry as a Second Language. Get the 1st and 2nd semester books. Can't even begin to describe how much these books made orgo way simpler to me. I also used it to study for the orgo section of the mcat so pretty good investment in my opinion.
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i just retook ochem and i feel like i know it better. but the fact that i got a ****ing b (88%)-im so tempted to teach it. I've never taught. i want to take the mcat, get in my post bacc and teach it along the way. do you think people will want to be tutored by me even if I've never taught and got B. i feel like i know it well enough to teach at least first semester. not helping with the lab haha that screwed me
 
It's just another weed out course bruh.

U wanna go to med school?

Rewrite every reaction and mechanism that your book/professor/notes mentions, memorize everything, and hit the practice problems and constantly quizzing yourself on them.

Constant repetition is the key to progression, ESPECIALLY in a useless course like O-chem.
 
I know my professor put all of his lectures online and I found them to be much easier to understand than reading the long and drawn out explanations in the book. You can view them on itunes U. Its from the University of New Orleans. They have both Orgo 1 and 2. Maybe it will help. If not, good luck. Atleast orgo doesn't suck as bad as physics IMO.
 
I'm about to start MS3 near the top quartile of my class. I don't remember a damned thing about OChem other than a benzene ring has 6 sides I think?
 
jqueb29 said:
I'm about to start MS3 near the top quartile of my class. I don't remember a damned thing about OChem other than a benzene ring has 6 sides I think?
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Lol! This is gold! I hate these classes but this is how they test us pre meds right. Is it possible to not do well in pre reqS but good in med school classes because your actually working towards something good . Does the mcat help wih med school?
 
Pediateix said:
Lol! This is gold! I hate these classes but this is how they test us pre meds right. Is it possible to not do well in pre reqS but good in med school classes because your actually working towards something good . Does the mcat help wih med school?
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Well... it helps you get INTO med school...? I think the only change med schools SHOULD make to their required courses are to get rid of both semesters of organic chemistry and replace it with 2 semesters of Anatomy and Physiology with lab.

O-chem was bull**** and I can't remember anything besides a Sn2 reaction involving "backside attack".... since there was a huge sexual connotation applied to it in my head. 😉
 
the MCAT doesn't

o chem --> solid understanding of biochem does
I think having the year of biochem is almost a must before med school
that was the course people FAILED so hard at my school

I don't agree about taking anatomy prior to med school, and most people I talked to who had it before didn't say it helped enough for them to recommend it

I didn't think physio was the hardest of the med school courses (biochem and neuroanatomy come to mind first....) so again, I can't recommend that
 
Crayola227 said:
the MCAT doesn't

o chem --> solid understanding of biochem does
I think having the year of biochem is almost a must before med school
that was the course people FAILED so hard at my school

I don't agree about taking anatomy prior to med school, and most people I talked to who had it before didn't say it helped enough for them to recommend it

I didn't think physio was the hardest of the med school courses (biochem and neuroanatomy come to mind first....) so again, I can't recommend that
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It's bull . I took anatomy twice in UG and barely passed:/ I retook Ochem and made a b 88% . So annoying . Sometimes I wonder if med is for me. Debating if I should apply . Retaking mcat and my GPA is 3.0
 
Pediateix said:
It's bull . I took anatomy twice in UG and barely passed:/ I retook Ochem and made a b 88% . So annoying . Sometimes I wonder if med is for me. Debating if I should apply . Retaking mcat and my GPA is 3.0
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Work harder bruh. Retake all the classes that you can, get that sciGPA up past 3.5 (cGPA should be above atleast 3.3ish), get some solid ECs and get a DO lor and apply early to DO programs.

You still breathing and alive. That should be all the motivation enough to go get what you want. You wanna go to med school....

or nah?
 
Some things that worry me are that some of these "useless premed classes" is that they don't seem to teach me anything about the MCAT. For example, I took psych, got an A, and tried doing some MCAT sample problems on an app, and I got like 3 out of 10 right. There are so many concepts I never heard about like stress. Our professors never once talked about stress psychology. Am I doing something wrong?
 
Pediateix said:
It's bull . I took anatomy twice in UG and barely passed:/ I retook Ochem and made a b 88% . So annoying . Sometimes I wonder if med is for me. Debating if I should apply . Retaking mcat and my GPA is 3.0
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OK, I'mma doc, and you come in here telling us what a poor pre-med student you are and that you clearly sound like you're not suited to the course material, and then tell me I'm wrong that most matriculants don't need to take anatomy before medical school? Any medical subject you learn before medical school is going to make doing it in med school easier, however that doesn't always mean it's worth doing in undergrad.

I took undergrad genetics and it helped me in med school, but it wasn't so hard and didn't help so much that I would tell people they should take it in undergrad for an advantage. (I had to take for other reasons)

However, I would tell people to do biochem in undergrad before med school.

If people want to take and barely pass anatomy in undergrad to weed themselves out, I could get behind that.
 
Crayola227 said:
OK, I'mma doc, and you come in here telling us what a poor pre-med student you are and that you clearly sound like you're not suited to the course material, and then tell me I'm wrong that most matriculants don't need to take anatomy before medical school? Any medical subject you learn before medical school is going to make doing it in med school easier, however that doesn't always mean it's worth doing in undergrad.

I took undergrad genetics and it helped me in med school, but it wasn't so hard and didn't help so much that I would tell people they should take it in undergrad for an advantage. (I had to take for other reasons)

However, I would tell people to do biochem in undergrad before med school.

If people want to take and barely pass anatomy in undergrad to weed themselves out, I could get behind that.
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Ochem is extremely useful, believe it or not. At first I, too, was like nah, but then I was like, yah!

If you have a good understanding of ochem there is a whole bunch of cool and useful stuff you can make that Obama and other pissants don't want you to be able to buy on the open market.

When I'm through with residency and finally have my doctah pad, the basement and garage areas are going to have at least 2 and possibly 3 workshop sections. One will be a mechanical section with a milling machine and a lathe as well as the usual assortment of hardware tools. The other section will be a chem lab where I can cook up all sorts of useful concoctions (DEA compliant of course lol).

So that mental plan basically got me to ace Orgo. It was a lot more interesting and easy to study once I started looking at it through the lens of "which equipment and precursors will I need to synthesize C, and how could I make it happen with off the shelf equipment in my basement" lol.
 
What worked for me:

1. Ignoring advice about memorizing not being helpful. Memorizing is HELL OF HELPFUL.

2. Study CONSTANTLY. Small study sessions for specific chunks of info daily, or twice a day. Master each before moving on to the next.

3. LOTS of 3-D models and watching animations. Get that info into your brain in multiple ways. Just static diagrams and words aren't enough.

YMMV but I had good success when I used these techniques and also tutored people who found them useful too.
 
I love organic chemistry. So I will address the second part of your question: You will not actually need orgo in med school. So try to muddle through in college, and grit your teeth for the MCAT, and then you are done.

Orgo might be helpful in med school, but you absolutely don't need to remember it.

It is one of the many hoops med school applicants are expected to jump through, so feel free to complain about it and question its validity, because although I love orgo, I also don't think it should be forced upon those who do not like it. More orgo for me!

It's kind of like the ONE QUESTION about IR spectroscopy that is on almost every iteration of the MCAT. As if doctors need to be able to interpret IR spectra. That's a ludicrous proposition.
 
TaupePremed said:
I love organic chemistry. So I will address the second part of your question: You will not actually need orgo in med school. So try to muddle through in college, and grit your teeth for the MCAT, and then you are done.

Orgo might be helpful in med school, but you absolutely don't need to remember it.

It is one of the many hoops med school applicants are expected to jump through, so feel free to complain about it and question its validity, because although I love orgo, I also don't think it should be forced upon those who do not like it. More orgo for me!

It's kind of like the ONE QUESTION about IR spectroscopy that is on almost every iteration of the MCAT. As if doctors need to be able to interpret IR spectra. That's a ludicrous proposition.
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Oh yeah NMR and IR spec were a disaster for me even when I got everything else down pat. My strategy for these was to get familiar with the most distinctive patterns and ignore the really obscure ones. Your prof might be more of a jerk than mine was, but for IR I memorized some patterns for bonds involving oxygen and nitrogen, and kind of ignored the rest because I was overwhelmed. I might have missed a point or two because of it, but at least in my class, all they really cared about was that you could tell an OH group from a ketone (for IR) and that you got the basic idea of splitting (for NMR).
 
Ochem labs are annoying, especially when you are graded on purity + yield. Even worse is being punished for poor results from a complex, multistep synthesis. That's why I avoided achem like the plague (achem = analytical chemistry).

The lecture class was pretty good though. Would recommend, esp if you have the Wade textbook.
 
confidentandgood said:
Organic chemistry is a weed-out course at many schools for this very reason: testing the academic commitment of pre-health students.

OP, do you hate the course because the material doesn't stick, or because it's simply uninteresting material? If it's the former, you need to reevaluate your study habits. If it's the latter, then... well, to be straightforward, tough luck. The material isn't what's relevant in med school. It's your skill in applying what you know to particularly difficult and sometimes new situations.

It's a different experience for everyone. You need the course on your application to matriculate. Your choice in the end. Best of luck to you.
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I agree... Ochem is a ton of work
 
Organic chemistry itself is not important. However, it does provide a basis for biochemistry, which is very important. I also firmly believe the thought process behind organic chemistry is conducive to success in medicine. Medical schools don't make you take these classes just to screw with you, they actually do think that these are important for several reasons.


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Hey OP, I have so great study materials for Orgo that puts things in a nice decision tree and grouping of strong acids/bases. I'd be happy to forward you the files, which I think I can. I bought them online but won't ask for anything. If you're interested, PM me your email address and il send it to you. Just buckle down and get through it


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What ORGO taught me was how to convince myself to enjoy boring ****. You'll learn a lot of awesome stuff in med school, but there will also be a lot of crap that is boring and you won't care for. It's not going to be the last class you hate
 
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