I hate people who say "where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference"

[premed20092013]

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I hate it when people say they that where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference. For example, then, why do kids at top schools (ie top 20 schools) have such high acceptance rates to medical schools? 80-90 percent of the pre-meds at Vanderbilt/Emory/Rice/Cornell/etc with a 3.5+ and a 30+ mcat score got into medical school. At some crappy school, I am sure that 80-90 percent of the kids with 3.5s will NOT be making it into medical school. As a result, Medical school adcoms understand how rigorous the classes are at top schools.


I guess my viewpoint may be biased because I am a Vanderbilt student who has to deal with extremely tough classes, while my friends at state schools easily make As without working hard. I struggled to keep a 3.53 here my first semester (I was taking 2 intro science classes where the average is a C/C-.) I made an A/A-/A-/B- in my classes but I had to work like 5 hours a day outside of class to do it

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Edit: Just read your post. Pretentious much?

 

[premed20092013]

I am not trying to be pretenious, I just get pissed off when people say things like it doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

 

[zeppelinpage4]

I hate it when people say they that where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference. For example, then, why do kids at top schools (ie top 20 schools) have such high acceptance rates to medical schools? 80-90 percent of the pre-meds at Vanderbilt/Emory/Rice/Cornell/etc with a 3.5+ and a 30+ mcat score got into medical school. At some crappy school, I am sure that 80-90 percent of the kids with 3.5s will be making it into medical school. As a result, Medical school adcoms understand how rigorous the classes are at top schools.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, it sounds to me like both the "crappy" school and the prestigious schools have the same acceptance rate?
Or am I misreading the post?

Either way, i'm sure seeing Cornell will give a slight boost and it is tough there but ultimately there's gonna be many other factors that will play a much much more important role I imagine.

 

[premed20092013]

I made a typo that phrase with state schools is supposed to inculde a NOT.


Don't worry I edited the post.

 

[Sammich117]

In the grand scheme of things, it won't matter. Just because someone's not at a 'top' undergrad doesn't mean they don't work hard. And there are also a lot of other factors that go into where people are accepted to med school

 

[marble30]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, it sounds to me like both the "crappy" school and the prestigious schools have the same acceptance rate?
Or am I misreading the post?

That's also what I'm reading... *confused*

 

[LizzyM]

Just curious, OP, what was your MCAT writing score? I'm wondering if there's a correlation between scores and post readability.

 

[vin5cent0]

I'm fairly certain a 3.8 at my mediocre univ would look better than your 3.6 at Vanderbilt. Just the way it is. If I had to guess, I'd say the higher acceptance rates at more prestigious universities is largely due to the fact that students who go there are simply smarter or more diligent workers for their grades.

 

[premed20092013]

Reread the post, I changed it.

 

[premed20092013]

I haven't taken the MCATs but I scored a 750 on my Sat Critical Reading, a 750 on my Sat writing score. From what other posters have said here, there is a strong correlation b/w MCATS and Sat scores.

 

[Hifey]

I hate it when people say they that where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference. For example, then, why do kids at top schools (ie top 20 schools) have such high acceptance rates to medical schools? 80-90 percent of the pre-meds at Vanderbilt/Emory/Rice/Cornell/etc with a 3.5+ and a 30+ mcat score got into medical school. At some crappy school, I am sure that 80-90 percent of the kids with 3.5s will NOT be making it into medical school. As a result, Medical school adcoms understand how rigorous the classes are at top schools.


I guess my viewpoint may be biased because I am a Vanderbilt student who has to deal with extremely tough classes, while my friends at state schools easily make As without working hard. I struggled to keep a 3.53 here my first semester (I was taking 2 intro science classes where the average is a C/C-.) I made an A/A-/A-/B- in my classes but I had to work like 5 hours a day outside of class to do it

The reason why a higher percentage of people get into med school at "top" schools is that they were already weeded out. Being "premed" at most schools is essentially a weed out process. And besides, what data do you have that supports the fact that people with 3.5+ and 30+ from "lower" medical schools won't get in? Also, its honestly not just about grades. If you do really well at a reasonably good state school, you bet that that student may be preferred (depends on the adcom really) over someone who didn't do well/ or barely average at a higher school. Also, many top schools have quite the grade inflation ( I believe Brown was an example...). Don't worry about what your friends are doing. You chose Vandy. Excel at Vandy = go to med school. It's really simple. If it pissed you off so much you could have "aced" your classes at state school. And just to let you know, some state schools are actually quite hard/competitive as well). good luck

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I hate it when people say they that where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference. For example, then, why do kids at top schools (ie top 20 schools) have such high acceptance rates to medical schools? 80-90 percent of the pre-meds at Vanderbilt/Emory/Rice/Cornell/etc with a 3.5+ and a 30+ mcat score got into medical school. At some crappy school, I am sure that 80-90 percent of the kids with 3.5s will NOT be making it into medical school. As a result, Medical school adcoms understand how rigorous the classes are at top schools.


I guess my viewpoint may be biased because I am a Vanderbilt student who has to deal with extremely tough classes, while my friends at state schools easily make As without working hard. I struggled to keep a 3.53 here my first semester (I was taking 2 intro science classes where the average is a C/C-.) I made an A/A-/A-/B- in my classes but I had to work like 5 hours a day outside of class to do it

You do know that grade inflation is huge at those private schools. Vanderbilt average grade inflation is a 3.5 gpa. Schools like Harvard and Vanderbilt and their grade inflation are amazingly high. I know a friend of mine going to Brown got a A in o-chem with a 66%. I know that at my state school i'll need to get at least a 85% to get a A in that class.

So yah the reason why kids at "top schools" get in to medical school is mostly because there gpa's are usually all 3.5+. Where as the average state school candidate leaves with a 2.8 gpa.

So your undergrad does matter, if you go to a "top school" you'll have a much better curve. Thus have a higher gpa likely.

Source gradeinflation.com
the famous site run by a professor at Duke University.

 

[Sammich117]

I've seen a lot of people claim the SAT isn't correlated. They are entirely different things to tackle. The MCAT is a much bigger beast than the SAT.

If I were you, I wouldn't start nitpicking the numbers. If what you claim is true, then you have a good shot at med school so instead of putting people down who aren't at undergrads as 'good' as yours, go get experience and learn something.

 

[nuneyah]

Well if 80-90% of the kids at Vandy with a 3.5+ and a 30+ get in, they you're already half-way there in the GPA department!! Just stick with it, pal... I'm in the SAME boat... I'm a freshman at Emory and made a 3.53 my first semester too. I know what you mean about friends going to state universities and pulling off 4.0's, no problem, but you can only worry about yourself and try your best with what you have.

 

[bearforce]

It is true the grade recieved matters, but i believe the school you attend also matters. If the medical school knows that your school produces solid students then that cant be a drawback. Also there was a very disproportionate number of interviewees from the Ivys than other schools that i observed on my interview trail.

 

[premed20092013]

^^^^ WTF are you taking about, average gpa at schools like Rice/Emory/Vandy is a like a 3.2/3.3. That refects the student body more than anything, we work harder to make sure we get As. My friends at my state school are always stoned out of their minds and still make the same grades I do at Vandy.

 

[7starmantis]

I am not trying to be pretenious, I just get pissed off when people say things like it doesn't matter where you went for undergrad.

It doesn't matter where you went for undergrad. 😀

The truth of that may only be realized once actually in medical school. It sure doesn't matter then. By the same token once in residency it doesn't matter where you went to med school. 😛 Be that as it may, sure some schools carry more "prestige" when listed on an application, I dont believe that its necessarily true across the board though, that "top tier" schools have harder classes. Just not a universal truth at all.

There are a myriad of other things that rank more important to an adcom than the name of the school you attended. If/when it comes into play is a question none of us really know the answer to.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

^^^^ WTF are you taking about, average gpa at schools like Rice/Emory/Vandy is a like a 3.2/3.3. That refects the student body more than anything, we work harder to make sure we get As. My friends at my state school are always stoned out of their minds and still make the same grades I do at Vandy.

It's beginning to sound a lot like :troll:smas.

 

[randombetch]

Where you went to undergrad does matter!

Feel better?

 

[Arjuna]

You do know that grade inflation is huge at those private schools. Vanderbilt average grade inflation is a 3.5 gpa. Schools like Harvard and Vanderbilt and their grade inflation are amazingly high. I know a friend of mine going to Brown got a A in o-chem with a 66%. I know that at my state school i'll need to get at least a 85% to get a A in that class.

So yah the reason why kids at "top schools" get in to medical school is mostly because there gpa's are usually all 3.5+. Where as the average state school candidate leaves with a 2.8 gpa.

So your undergrad does matter, if you go to a "top school" you'll have a much better curve. Thus have a higher gpa likely.

Source gradeinflation.com
the famous site run by a professor at Duke University.

Oh My. What a succinct and well crafted reply. Good job, serenade. And I agree with TEH OCHEM thing; at my school, I got a sixty something in O chem and ended up with a C+. Go figure. Plus, different professors matter too. It doesnt help that all the Chem profs here have their PhDs from Princeton, Duke and Harvard. Schools know this. The "prestige" of going to Vanderbilt in no way trumps the difficulty of individual professors at state schools. That is why they have something called a committee letter; something that will save my arse from complete destruction when the ball drops.

 

[Hifey]

Well if 80-90% of the kids at Vandy with a 3.5+ and a 30+ get in, they you're already half-way there in the GPA department!! Just stick with it, pal... I'm in the SAME boat... I'm a freshman at Emory and made a 3.53 my first semester too. I know what you mean about friends going to state universities and pulling off 4.0's, no problem, but you can only worry about yourself and try your best with what you have.

The real test for your GPA is not what you get your first semester. GPA is to show your work over years. To illustrate...I was a 3.9 my freshman year but I didn't apply with a 3.9.

 

[7starmantis]

It's beginning to sound a lot like :troll:smas.

Yeah I think I agree.

Also, I think the idea of attending a "prestigious" undergrad is a practice in futility or at least diminishing returns at best.

Reminds me of the great line from Good Will Hunting.

You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.

 

[premed20092013]

^^^ dude serende's arguement is so weak. It makes no ssense.



Hahaha, according to people on this forum, I wasted 200,000. Vandy costs 52K a year.

 

[Sammich117]

It's beginning to sound a lot like :troll:smas.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I hate it when people say they that where you go for undergrad doesn't make a difference. For example, then, why do kids at top schools (ie top 20 schools) have such high acceptance rates to medical schools? 80-90 percent of the pre-meds at Vanderbilt/Emory/Rice/Cornell/etc with a 3.5+ and a 30+ mcat score got into medical school. At some crappy school, I am sure that 80-90 percent of the kids with 3.5s will NOT be making it into medical school. As a result, Medical school adcoms understand how rigorous the classes are at top schools.


I guess my viewpoint may be biased because I am a Vanderbilt student who has to deal with extremely tough classes, while my friends at state schools easily make As without working hard. I struggled to keep a 3.53 here my first semester (I was taking 2 intro science classes where the average is a C/C-.) I made an A/A-/A-/B- in my classes but I had to work like 5 hours a day outside of class to do it

Your stats are fundamentally flawed; those stats you quote from those top 20 undergrads include both the guy with the 3.5/30 AND all of the people with 3.9/40. I'm pretty sure that 80% of people from the top undergrads with JUST a 3.5/30 don't get in.

And the reason why a higher percentage of pre-meds at those top schools tend to get into med school is because coming in, on average, those kids are probably somewhat "smarter" than the kids that went to the state schools, so they're more likely to rock the MCAT regardless. That doesn't mean they couldn't have gone to the state school and done just as well on the MCAT and gotten into the same places.

 

[flip26]

I haven't taken the MCATs but I scored a 750 on my Sat Critical Reading, a 750 on my Sat writing score. From what other posters have said here, there is a strong correlation b/w MCATS and Sat scores.

Know what I hate? I hate when some douche says "MCATs" as in "I haven't taken the MCATs."

 

[Practitioner]

If undergrad institution mattered, why doesn't anyone ask about it?

So I don't know if it matters in the decision process, obviously since I'm premed, but I've attended an ok state school and also an Ivy school.While the material taught at both felt like the same standard, the student and instructor attitudes were very different between the two. And I think that attitude difference better prepared my Ivy league school peers to utilize their undergraduate experience/education either in life after graduating or in pursuing a higher education. It's hard to describe in words or to quantify it. Of course, you could always look at the job offers each school's graduates get and their salaries. I'm sure those stats exist. I know for sure Ivy school had a larger number of Nobel Laureates, if that means anything.

On a different note than quality of education, better undergrad institutions also provide much better networking opportunities and real-world exposure in my experience.

Just curious, OP, what was your MCAT writing score? I'm wondering if there's a correlation between scores and post readability.

That was subtle. =P

 

[premed20092013]

I have the stats for Emory University (I can't find Vandys). If you look at Emory's stats, it shows that there is not 1 person with a 3.5/30 and the rest with higher gpas. Its really well spread out. I don't know how to upload the chart on this forum



Go Spurs Go, your argument is ******ed, get your facts straight first.

 

[Hifey]

^^^ dude serende's arguement is so weak. It makes no ssense.



Hahaha, according to people on this forum, I wasted 200,000. Vandy costs 52K a year.

Honestly, in my opinion when applying to med school you could have saved your money. However, if we were in a forum about academic science and medicine, law or business...undergrad would matter.

 

[marble30]

Honestly, in my opinion when applying to med school you could have saved your money. However, if we were in a forum about academic science and medicine, law or business...undergrad would matter.

I agree. It definitely matters for those wall street jobs.

 

[Hifey]

I have the stats for Emory University (I can't find Vandys). If you look at Emory's stats, it shows that there is not 1 person with a 3.5/30 and the rest with higher gpas. Its really well spread out. I don't know how to upload the chart on this forum



Go Spurs Go, your argument is ******ed, get your facts straight first.

You MUST be a freshman. No one else I know uses that adjective anymore when attempting to make an argument. Also, saying that "you hate people who say blah blah blah blah" is quite inflammatory. The correct way to say it is "i hate it when people say blah blah blah". Then again, this is an internet forum so carry on...

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I have the stats for Emory University (I can't find Vandys). If you look at Emory's stats, it shows that there is not 1 person with a 3.5/30 and the rest with higher gpas. Its really well spread out. I don't know how to upload the chart on this forum



Go Spurs Go, your argument is ******ed, get your facts straight first.

I sense that Spurs will soon lock this troll thread.

 

[vman51]

I haven't taken the MCATs but I scored a 750 on my Sat Critical Reading, a 750 on my Sat writing score. From what other posters have said here, there is a strong correlation b/w MCATS and Sat scores.

not true, take a look at the numbers..slight correlation in the verbal sections, far from strong

 

[Sammich117]

I have the stats for Emory University (I can't find Vandys). If you look at Emory's stats, it shows that there is not 1 person with a 3.5/30 and the rest with higher gpas. Its really well spread out. I don't know how to upload the chart on this forum



Go Spurs Go, your argument is ******ed, get your facts straight first.

Then show where you got your stats. I don't think Spurs was saying there was just one low person. It's what an average is - it's a whole range.

 

[7starmantis]

Can we get a lock in here....or a ban ?
👍

 

[marble30]

lock + ban anticipated...

 

[Sammich117]

You're what, a freshman in college? So of course you feel like you know everything... But honestly? undergrad DOESN'T matter. What matters is what you learn and how you treat people...

I'd stop calling people ******ed, for one thing.

 

[randombetch]

I have the stats for Emory University (I can't find Vandys). If you look at Emory's stats, it shows that there is not 1 person with a 3.5/30 and the rest with higher gpas. Its really well spread out. I don't know how to upload the chart on this forum



Go Spurs Go, your argument is ******ed, get your facts straight first.

GSG is trying to decide whether to lock this thread and ban the OP right now.

 

[7starmantis]

I'd stop calling people ******ed, for one thing.

Yeah and dont let Sarah Palin hear you do it either. 😀

 

[Beren]

You do know that grade inflation is huge at those private schools. Vanderbilt average grade inflation is a 3.5 gpa. Schools like Harvard and Vanderbilt and their grade inflation are amazingly high. I know a friend of mine going to Brown got a A in o-chem with a 66%. I know that at my state school i'll need to get at least a 85% to get a A in that class.

I won't deny that Brown has grade inflation, but I don't think the bolded necessarily indicates grade inflation. If the median o-chem score in the Brown class was 40% with a SD of 16%, that cutoff isn't unreasonable. And if the median score at the state school is 80% with an SD of 10%, then that very inflated. It just depends on the stats for the class.

 

[jvesco22]

 

[TooMuchResearch]

You're what, a freshman in college? So of course you feel like you know everything... But honestly? undergrad DOESN'T matter. What matters is what you learn and how you treat people...

I'd stop calling people ******ed, for one thing.

Edit: my post was irrelevant

 

[marble30]

Awesome! 👍👍

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

A) Quit your bitching and put in the work to get the grades you want. B) Transfer to a different school if you feel so betrayed by the system.

 

[samuraiR]

You know what does matter tho? The amount I have in loans compared with someone who went to Vandy/Emory/Rice wtv.

It may not be prestigious but the $$$ i saved makes me so happy I picked to go to my "****ty" state school.

Btw my "****ty" state school is ranked higher then most "top" schools in multiple departments.

To each his own man... why get on other peoples case about where they go to school?

P.s.

it doesnt matter where you went to undergrad😎

 

[Sammich117]

There once was a troll named premed
Who was quite screwed up in the head
He claimed his school is hard
And called Spurs a ******
And then the mods closed his thread.

 

[marble30]

Now I'm just waiting for the inevitable "I hate people that say 'what you major in' doesn't matter" thread.

 

[7starmantis]

Haha, I actually had an interviewer tell me to my face that a (insert my GPA) student from my ****ty state school would be less intelligent than a (insert much lower GPA) student from "say Hopkins". Haha, I was quickly accepted to that school. 😎

 

[bobsmith]

There once was a troll named premed
Who was quite screwed up in the head
He claimed his school is hard
And called Spurs a ******
And then the mods closed his thread.

nice.