I have a limited amount of time before applying. Should I boost my shadowing or volunteer hours?

[DannyDuberstein]

I plan on applying in a month or two to the three Texas schools only. I'm studying for the DAT and working on my application. I have been volunteering in the community and I absolutely love it. I absolutely plan on continuing in the following years because I find it personally rewarding.

However, my singular focus at the moment is to get into dental school and work toward my lifelong dream of becoming a dentist. I am spending lots of time studying for the DAT and wanted to know where the time that I have could best be used -- volunteering or studying -- from an admissions perspective.

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[ajj70]

Boost your shadow hours first. Most schools require 60-100 hours. Then boost your volunteer hours.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Essentially, should I shoot for 75 shadowing/75 volunteering or shoot for 100 shadowing/50 volunteering? In a perfect world, I would like to do both but given my time constraints, what would be the better idea?

 

[ajj70]

Shadowing hours are more important, the 100/50 is better, but it also depends on which schools you want to attend. Some schools want way more volunteer hours than that, but really, this should not be an issue you should be worrying about now. If all of your hours are in the next couple weeks, that won't look good either.

 

[Swagger1991]

If being a dentist is really a lifelong dream, do both! Cut out the non essentials (going to the gym, etc) for a month or 2 and boost volunteering and shadowing. Dental school is all about prioritizing time and making sacrifices. I took the DAT in the spring, when I was taking 16 credits and working full time, but I still found time to shadow each week and volunteer. I had to cut out a lot, but it was something I was willing to do to prepare for D school. You can do it! Good luck!

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-job-shadowing-requirements-recommendation.1139813/

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

I don't know what your stats are, but planning to apply in August to only your 3 in-state schools seems like a pretty risky plan.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

I don't know what your stats are, but planning to apply in August to only your 3 in-state schools seems like a pretty risky plan.

I am a Texas resident and I want to stay in Texas for dental school and beyond. Not to mention that I think that the three Texas dental schools are some of the finest schools in the country..

 

[DannyDuberstein]

If being a dentist is really a lifelong dream, do both! Cut out the non essentials (going to the gym, etc) for a month or 2 and boost volunteering and shadowing. Dental school is all about prioritizing time and making sacrifices. I took the DAT in the spring, when I was taking 16 credits and working full time, but I still found time to shadow each week and volunteer. I had to cut out a lot, but it was something I was willing to do to prepare for D school. You can do it! Good luck!

I both admire and respect all that you accomplished last semester. However, I have noticed personally that a healthy lifestyle in fact allows me to be more focused and productive and keep from getting burned out. You have outstanding willpower and I will do my best to follow your example as best I personally can.

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

I am a Texas resident and I want to stay in Texas for dental school and beyond. Not to mention that I think that the three Texas dental schools are some of the finest schools in the country..

That's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that the Texas schools have an in-state acceptance rate of less than 15%. There is nothing so far to indicate you are a competitive candidate in terms of your numbers, you have no idea how you will do on your DAT, your EC hours are low (even if you increase them at this point it's going to be clear you were getting hours in at the last minute for application purposes rather than showing interest in the field over time), and you will be applying later than most. It would be unwise to apply to only the Texas schools without any OOS backups unless you would enjoy the process of re-applying next year.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

That's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that the Texas schools have an in-state acceptance rate of less than 15%. There is nothing so far to indicate you are a competitive candidate in terms of your numbers, you have no idea how you will do on your DAT, your EC hours are low (even if you increase them at this point it's going to be clear you were getting hours in at the last minute for application purposes rather than showing interest in the field over time), and you will be applying later than most. It would be unwise to apply to only the Texas schools without any OOS backups unless you would enjoy the process of re-applying next year.

I appreciate your perspective and understand why you would say that. In regard to the acceptance rates, however, the TMDSAS data (2014 Entry Year) shows that there is a roughly 31.98% admissions rate for Texas residents and my undergraduate institution's published data suggests a similar value. Additionally, my GPA's fall well within the admitted ranges and I hope with enough hard work and preparation I can earn a respectable DAT score. Additionally, I am hoping to improve as much as possible on my exposure to the dental profession so there's that too.

I don't mean to undermine your response, but I would prefer (if you have been through the admissions process already) if you answered in your next response the question I raised in the original posting regarding how best to use my time. I have no plans to leave Texas and I love all of the dental schools in the state, so I'm more or less decided that I want to stick with Texas schools.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-job-shadowing-requirements-recommendation.1139813/

That was a very helpful link! Thank you for compiling that information. I wanted to know what your perspective was regarding volunteering? I plan on continuing to volunteer for years to come but would it be a good idea to bump up my volunteer hours for the next two months at the expense of shadowing?

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

I appreciate your perspective, however the TMDSAS data (2014 Entry Year) indicates that there is a roughly 31.98% admissions rate for Texas residents and my undergraduate institution's published data suggests a similar value. Additionally, my GPA's fall within the admitted ranges and I hope with enough hard work and preparation I can earn a respectable DAT score. Additionally, I am hoping to improve as much as possible on my exposure to the dental profession so there's that too.

I don't mean to undermine your response, but I would prefer, if you have been through the admissions process, if you answered the question I raised in the original posting regarding how best to use my time. I have no plans to leave Texas and I love all of the dental schools in the state, so I'm more or less decided that I want to stick with Texas schools.

Let's assume your data is correct (I got mine from enrolled vs applicant numbers from the 2015-2016 ADEA Guide to Dental Schools, granted there is likely some overlap between accepted in state applicants that turned down one school for another - but the number of interviewed candidates alone is roughly 32%, not the acceptance rate). That still means less than 1/3rd of in-state applicants are accepted. That is not a high rate. Your GPA falling within the range is a strange metric to use - almost every single applicant with a GPA higher than a 3.0 will fall within the range because a range includes those students with the absolutely lowest GPA that still managed to get in (including those who did a masters or SMP and were then admitted on the strength of their graduate work). It is your GPA relative to the mean that you should be using as a metric.

Assuming your DAT score will be good enough is risky. So is applying in August with low extracurricular hours. You don't even meet the bare minimum requirement for Baylor as it stands.

I get that you don't want to leave Texas, or hear that your plan is a terrible one, but the fact remains that it's a terrible one. If you want to stay in Texas more than you want to go to dental school, perhaps reconsider your commitment to pursuing the profession.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Let's assume your data is correct (I got mine from enrolled vs applicant numbers from the 2015-2016 ADEA Guide to Dental Schools, granted there is likely some overlap between accepted in state applicants that turned down one school for another). That still means less than 1/3rd of in-state applicants is accepted. That is not a high rate. Your GPA falling within the range is a strange metric to use - almost every single applicant with a GPA higher than a 3.0 will fall within the range because it includes those students with the absolutely lowest GPA that still managed to get in (including those who did a masters or SMP and were then admitted on the strength of their graduate work). It is your GPA relative to the mean that you should be using as a metric.

Assuming your DAT score will be good enough is risky. So is applying in August with low extracurricular hours.

I get that you don't want to leave Texas, or hear that your plan is a terrible one, but the fact remains that it's a terrible one.

Yes, I got the data I mentioned from the TMDSAS 2014 Entering Year Final Statistics. And with regard to my GPA, it is significantly higher than a 3.0 and and not far from the "mean." And yes, my DAT score may or may not be good (who can say right now?), but that does not mean that I won't try my best anyway. And your last point about the low extracurricular hours is what I am attempting to figure out and the reason for this thread -- I want to know if my time would better be spent volunteering or shadowing (if I have equal hours of each) and limited time.

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

And with regard to my GPA, it is significantly higher than a 3.0 and not far from the "mean." And yes, my DAT score may or may not be good, but that does not mean that I won't try my best anyway. And your last point about the low extracurricular hours is what I am attempting to figure out -- I want to know if my time would better be spent volunteering or shadowing (if I have equal hours of each) and limited time.

I'm going to guess by your phrasing of "not far from the mean" it's actually below the mean, just not by much?

Texas has great dental schools. Almost everyone in the country would love to go there. The fact remains applying to only Texas schools (in August) even as an in-state applicant, is risky. As it stands your application will have multiple areas of weakness. At the end of the day it's your call if you insist on taking that chance. I genuinely wish you the best of luck because you may need it.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

I get that you don't want to leave Texas, or hear that your plan is a terrible one, but the fact remains that it's a terrible one. If you want to stay in Texas more than you want to go to dental school, perhaps reconsider your commitment to pursuing the profession.

I want to stay in Texas. I want to become a dentist. I don't think these two statements are mutually exclusive.

You have made your point that you don't think I will get into a Texas dental school. But despite your opinion (which is the opinion of a pre-dental student and not an admissions committee member), I'm going to continue to try and produce the best application I can.

If I have to reapply, then I have to reapply. But I'm shooting for an admission this cycle and reapplying is not something I'm terribly concerned about right now.

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

You gave me a realistic appraisal of my short-sighted plan which I do not appreciate because my ego is too fragile to hear anything but overwhelming, false optimism designed to boost my confidence despite misleading me about my odds of success.

Fixed that for you. See? You could have conveyed the same sentiment in a single sentence!

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Fixed that for you. See? You could conveyed the same sentiment in a single sentence!

Thanks for the fix. But I never asked you for an "appraisal of my chances" and I question how "realistic" your appraisal is when considering the following factors:

(1) You have felt the need to state your opinion that I have a poor chance (with zero information) of getting into a Texas dental school repeatedly, while ignoring the original question I posed.

(2) Have no credibility to speak of regarding your predictions (you are not an admissions committee member, a dentist, a dental student or even an admitted student); you write in another post that you were rejected from every dental school you applied to

(3) Your post history shows that you regularly write discouraging comments to other users

I hope you will understand that I choose to no longer engage with you. You can continue to comment, but I will not read it.

All the best in this admissions cycle.

 

[PlasmaMembrane]

Thanks for the fix. But I never asked you for an "appraisal of my chances" and I question how "realistic" your apprasials are when they come from someone who:

(1) Declined to answer the original question that I asked in this post and instead proceeded to write several posts about why my application is terrible (after telling you that you had already made your point).

(2) Has not gotten into dental school since applying two years ago; quoting from a thread you created last month where you said every dental school you have applied to has rejected you

(3) Has a post history of writing disparaging comments toward people that can be seen with just a casual glance

Thanks for your psychoanalysis of my mental state based on forum postings but I hope you will understand that I will not engage with you further. All the best.

(1) Already answered your question when it was pointed out 1/3rd of the schools you are applying to require more shadowing hours than you have, making it the obvious choice for increasing your hours in. Or did you need it literally spelled out?

(2) I never completed my application to any of the dental schools I applied to which is why I was rejected by default. Unlike in your situation, where you will be rejected for being an underwhelming applicant. On that note, I think it's funny my post got you so butthurt you literally began digging through my post history hoping for some dirt. I thought you were too limited on time to do such things?

(3) Again, if you need your ego coddled, just say so in your original post. If you want actual advice that cuts through the often meaningless optimism repeated on these forums, then I've given it to you. Your plan is bad.

All the best with applying to three competitive dental schools with a GPA lower than their average, no DAT score, insufficient shadowing or volunteering hours, a late application, and the emotional fortitude of a child.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Thanks man, hope your day goes well.

 

[jsptr986]

to answer your original question, you should spend more time shadowing. i am also a texas resident and for all 3 schools around 100 shadowing hours is desirable.

as a re-applicant myself, this is my own personal opinion: wait until next year to apply so that you are better prepared to have your application complete early. i have spoken with admin reps from all 3 schools and early is "may - end of june/beginning of july." if you're applying in august and your application isn't ready until september, with your current stats i wouldn't risk it. I'm sure you can get to 100 hours prior to submitting your app, but realize your competition (like me) will have double/triple the amount of hours and will have submitted their complete app a whole two months in advance. you will be submitting the same time dental schools will be sending out interview invites.

keep in mind your DAT scores will take about 3 weeks to post, and then TMDSAS can take up to 10 days (2 business weeks) to process your application. lets say you don't like your scores, you have to wait 90 days to retake which could potentially push you back past the application deadline.

however, there is no harm in seeing what happens! the app fee is only $140. i will say though that if you do have to reapply next year, your application will have to improve significantly and you will have to explain.

just my 2 cents, i wish you the best of luck!

 

[Thanhn]

But on the real note, OP - go get your shadowing hours up. Baylor requires ~75 but prefers ~100 with a general dentist. Don't neglect studying for the DAT. I would maybe shadow ~5hrs/wk while studying for the DAT. Take the DAT and do really well. Then up it to ~10+hrs/wk until you reach the 100 hours.

I spoke to someone at Baylor COD and they said that you can always send them an update on your shadowing hours after you submit your application. I only have ~60 of the 75hrs required for Baylor so I'm going to submit my app soon then just send an update.

Also, rumor is, Baylor doesn't even start reviewing applications until Sept. 30th (their deadline) so it'll give you plenty of time to get everything you need in an update.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Thanks for your perspectives guys!!

 

[doc toothache]

That was a very helpful link! Thank you for compiling that information. I wanted to know what your perspective was regarding volunteering? I plan on continuing to volunteer for years to come but would it be a good idea to bump up my volunteer hours for the next two months at the expense of shadowing?

Shadowing takes precedence.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2015-prerequisites.1138351/

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Appreciate all of the responses! Everyone seems agree that shadowing would be more important in this situation.

 

[jsptr986]

have you began filling out tmdsas?

rumor is, Baylor doesn't even start reviewing applications until Sept. 30th (their deadline) so it'll give you plenty of time to get everything you need in an update.

also, this is not true. interview invites are sent out in august meaning they have already reviewed applications from may-july.

 

[postpitadh]

definitely shadow first man.

 

[strep mutans]

That's great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that the Texas schools have an in-state acceptance rate of less than 15%.

Nah... Look at it this way. Approximately 900 TX residents apply to all 3 schools, which combined have about 300 seats for TX residents. That's a 33% acceptance rate.

For 2014, 913 TX residents applied and 292 TX residents matriculated (32%).

To OP: shadowing > volunteering

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Nah... Look at it this way. Approximately 900 TX residents apply to all 3 schools, which combined have about 300 seats for TX residents. That's a 33% acceptance rate.

For 2014, 913 TX residents applied and 292 TX residents matriculated (32%).

To OP: shadowing > volunteering

That's the data I used as well. I think what's even more helpful is to look at the breakdown of GPA and DAT ranges for matriculated applicants in addition to the averages they provide.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

That's the data I used as well. I think what's even more helpful is to look at the breakdown of GPA and DAT ranges for matriculated applicants in addition to the averages they provide.

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing here. 15% or 30%, it's still a big risk to apply to only the Texas schools in your situation, having backups is important. I'd also say the mean is far more valuable than the range for reasons mentioned above.

 

[DannyDuberstein]

Good point, but I don't have a problem reapplying if I don't get in. Waiting a year to go to school where I know I would be happier is worth it to me personally.

Everyone has a different set of complex circumstances that determine where they apply or attend and I have my own personal viewpoint of what is right for me. Of course I have more personal reasons to stay besides just liking Texas; I just don't feel the need to share all of them on an online forum. Regardless, I appreciate the constructive criticism.

And you are 100% right that the mean is the most important. To clarify, the three dental schools have a "range" of average matriculant GPAs between 3.5 and 3.7 and in light of this information, my GPA is not something I am very concerned about. My main concern is producing the best possible application I can.

P.S. Your biology notes are outstanding. Thank you for being so kind as to share your notes and I and I'm sure a lot of other people are similarly grateful!

 

[OSUkid]

I plan on applying in a month or two to the three Texas schools only. I'm studying for the DAT and working on my application. I have been volunteering in the community and I absolutely love it. I absolutely plan on continuing in the following years because I find it personally rewarding.

However, my singular focus at the moment is to get into dental school and work toward my lifelong dream of becoming a dentist. I am spending lots of time studying for the DAT and wanted to know where the time that I have could best be used -- volunteering or studying -- from an admissions perspective.

HEYYY U TOOK MY AVATAR! Knock him out like you knocked out the poacher bear @tooth knockn

 

[catoshiro]

Let's assume your data is correct (I got mine from enrolled vs applicant numbers from the 2015-2016 ADEA Guide to Dental Schools, granted there is likely some overlap between accepted in state applicants that turned down one school for another - but the number of interviewed candidates alone is roughly 32%, not the acceptance rate). That still means less than 1/3rd of in-state applicants are accepted. That is not a high rate. Your GPA falling within the range is a strange metric to use - almost every single applicant with a GPA higher than a 3.0 will fall within the range because a range includes those students with the absolutely lowest GPA that still managed to get in (including those who did a masters or SMP and were then admitted on the strength of their graduate work). It is your GPA relative to the mean that you should be using as a metric.

Assuming your DAT score will be good enough is risky. So is applying in August with low extracurricular hours. You don't even meet the bare minimum requirement for Baylor as it stands.

I get that you don't want to leave Texas, or hear that your plan is a terrible one, but the fact remains that it's a terrible one. If you want to stay in Texas more than you want to go to dental school, perhaps reconsider your commitment to pursuing the profession.

What do you mean bare minimum requirement for Baylor? They have a minimum number of hours required for shadowing or volunteering?

 

[catoshiro]

But on the real note, OP - go get your shadowing hours up. Baylor requires ~75 but prefers ~100 with a general dentist. Don't neglect studying for the DAT. I would maybe shadow ~5hrs/wk while studying for the DAT. Take the DAT and do really well. Then up it to ~10+hrs/wk until you reach the 100 hours.

I spoke to someone at Baylor COD and they said that you can always send them an update on your shadowing hours after you submit your application. I only have ~60 of the 75hrs required for Baylor so I'm going to submit my app soon then just send an update.

Also, rumor is, Baylor doesn't even start reviewing applications until Sept. 30th (their deadline) so it'll give you plenty of time to get everything you need in an update.

Hmm where did you get this info? I didn't see anything on their website that you need at least 75 hrs with a general dentist. I have 52 hrs and submitted my app 6/30, I put about 150 hrs worth of shadowing specialties I plan on doing in my gap year. Will they still consider me or pass on my app because I have less than the 75 hrs required.

 

[ajj70]

Hmm where did you get this info? I didn't see anything on their website that you need at least 75 hrs with a general dentist. I have 52 hrs and submitted my app 6/30, I put about 150 hrs worth of shadowing specialties I plan on doing in my gap year. Will they still consider me or pass on my app because I have less than the 75 hrs required.

Look at the link above, all of the school information is there for shadowing requirements. We really can't tell you if you will get an interview or not, it's going to depend on the rest of your application, but the reality is, you applied with a very low number of shadowing hours, where most everyone else probably has double that or more. Which candidate will you pick? Also, most dental schools don't want to see you gunning for a specialty like that before you get in so I'd revise my plan and spend most of that time with a general dentist so next year if you apply again you will have a stronger application. I also hope you did not put those hours in like you already did them because that will kill you in your interviews.

 

[strep mutans]

I also hope you did not put those hours in like you already did them because that will kill you in your interviews.

TMDSAS has a "Planned Activities" section to put in planned hours for what you're doing during the gap between applying and (hopefully) matriculating. That's probably what they're referring to.

 

[catoshiro]

Hmm this is the strangest thing I've ever heard. I know multiple people who have gotten in with 30 and less, I know one girl going to Houston who got in with 10. I've heard people from my pre-dent society comment that adcoms say it doesn't matter if you have 50 or 100. According to them if it takes you a 100 hours to decide that dentistry is right for you then great, if it took you 50 hours that's fine, as long as you did a fair amount. I guess even "fair" is open to interpretation.

 

[catoshiro]

And yes whatever strep mutans said. I just put shadowing specialties in my planned activities since I'll have a whole year to explore the dental field beyond general. I figured also working at a general dentist's, and my mom being a dentist will be enough exposure to general practice.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Hmm this is the strangest thing I've ever heard. I know multiple people who have gotten in with 30 and less, I know one girl going to Houston who got in with 10. I've heard people from my pre-dent society comment that adcoms say it doesn't matter if you have 50 or 100. According to them if it takes you a 100 hours to decide that dentistry is right for you then great, if it took you 50 hours that's fine, as long as you did a fair amount. I guess even "fair" is open to interpretation.

Baylor requires 75 hours with a general dentist. Houston doesn't have specified hours for requirement, so it varies by school. You can check this document for additional requirements, or see doc toothache's guide: http://www.brynmawr.edu/healthpro/documents/DentalSchool_Addional_Requirements2015.pdf

 

[ajj70]

Hmm this is the strangest thing I've ever heard. I know multiple people who have gotten in with 30 and less, I know one girl going to Houston who got in with 10. I've heard people from my pre-dent society comment that adcoms say it doesn't matter if you have 50 or 100. According to them if it takes you a 100 hours to decide that dentistry is right for you then great, if it took you 50 hours that's fine, as long as you did a fair amount. I guess even "fair" is open to interpretation.

again....look at the link that Doc posted....I'd trust that before I'd trust your "I know...."

 

[catoshiro]

Just called Baylor! Someone from admissions just said actually a 100 is required so there it is. Thank you guys! Think I will be calling to update my shadowing my plan from specialty to general. Good luck to everyone!

 

[cacajuate]

That's the data I used as well. I think what's even more helpful is to look at the breakdown of GPA and DAT ranges for matriculated applicants in addition to the averages they provide.

I think it's a good risk to only apply to Texas schools if your stats are competetive. It's worth saving the $100k.