How many Volunteer* hours should non-comp students have?

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throwawayacc2

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Hello

I have roughly 300 hours of volunteer work (between volunteer DAing and food pantry) along with a bunch of hours from working. I thought that number was good, I've seen people get in with way less. I'm not very competitive and it seems like the only way for people in my bracket to get interviews, no less acceptances, is by having thousands of hours in volunteering and/or working in the dental field. What should I aim to achieve?

edit: I don't know why, but out of all of the websites I visit in a day I can never write properly on this one.

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Hello

I have roughly 300 hours of volunteer work (between volunteer DAing and food pantry) along with a bunch of hours from working. I thought that number was good, I've seen people get in with way less. I'm not very competitive and it seems like the only way for people in my bracket to get interviews, no less acceptances, is by having thousands of hours in volunteering and/or working in the dental field. What should I aim to achieve?

edit: I don't know why, but out of all of the websites I visit in a day I can never write properly on this one.
Too difficult to compare among applicants without much more information, and even so, I don't know how much of your volunteer dental assisting vs. food pantry you have done. I lump all dental-related activities together in my head. Basically I would need more information, but I don't think you need thousands of hours. It's great if you do, especially in dental environments.
 
Too difficult to compare among applicants without much more information, and even so, I don't know how much of your volunteer dental assisting vs. food pantry you have done. I lump all dental-related activities together in my head. Basically I would need more information, but I don't think you need thousands of hours. It's great if you do, especially in dental environments.
shadowing is roughly 100 hrs in two offices; a small old one and a large modern one.
Vol. DAing in two low-income dental clinics, one being in Detroit, for a total of 170 hrs.
Pantry is 100 hours between two locations, one at a non-profit, one at a Detroit church.

I dunno. All of these anxieties are building up and I can't just sit-still. I feel like if I haven't tried everything I can do, I haven't tried hard enough.
I wanna apologize if I say anything stupid, my family isn't very understanding.
 
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shadowing is roughly 100 hrs in two offices; a small old one and a large modern one.
Vol. DAing in two low-income dental clinics, one being in Detroit, for a total of 170 hrs.
Pantry is 100 hours between two locations, one at a non-profit, one at a Detroit church.

I dunno. All of these anxieties are building up and I can't just sit-still. I feel like if I haven't tried everything I can do, I haven't tried hard enough.
I wanna apologize if I say anything stupid, my family isn't very understanding.
i don't see a WAMC template from you
is this really your third time applying?
 
i don't see a WAMC template from you
is this really your third time applying?
I didn't think it was needed. Just saying I'm not very competitive.
My stats are 3.2 oGPA, 2.95 sGPA, Masters GPA is 3.6.
From my own calculations my last quarter of grades goes to 3.5 for o/sGPA for 42 credits.
DAT is 20, nothing below 19.
bcpGPA is 3.1
Had medical issues during freshman year.
Just a strong upward trend.
ORM.
worked 1000 hours in the service industry and another 200 for park managing.
 
I didn't think it was needed. Just saying I'm not very competitive. ...
Pro forma: filling the template will help us. Also where did you previously apply? I don't see your detailed dental experience or food pantry.

To be competitive, you have to be confident that you have a strong profile and value to bring to dentistry and to the schools you want to attend. Having a good balance with your doubts will be a lifelong mental hurdle we all deal with.

If you see that others similar to you get in with thousands of hours, you have to know if this is really true (I don't think so) and have a plan at least to be on par with the other applicants in your pool. You may not be competitive, but you have to at least keep up with everyone. Also not being somewhat competitive will hamper you later since dentistry is driven through apprenticeship and reputation. You have to care to hustle to get out of debt and on your professional feet.
 
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I didn't think it was needed. Just saying I'm not very competitive.
My stats are 3.2 oGPA, 2.95 sGPA, Masters GPA is 3.6.
From my own calculations my last quarter of grades goes to 3.5 for o/sGPA for 42 credits.
DAT is 20, nothing below 19.
bcpGPA is 3.1
Had medical issues during freshman year.
Just a strong upward trend.
ORM.
worked 1000 hours in the service industry and another 200 for park managing.
it's needed
there are different interpretations of "not very competitive"...
 
Date of submission: May 30th ASAP
Overall GPA: 3.2
Science GPA:
2.95
Bio-Chem-Physics GPA:
3.1
DAT score (include AA and all sections):
20. PA-20, QR-20, RC-20, Bio-20, GC-21, OC-19
State of Residence: michigan
Masters GPA: 3.57

Major: BS in bio, MA in Bio
Minor: If double minor, list both here
Minority? yes, but ORM
Reapplicant? Yes 3x
Nontrad? no

Shadowing Experience:
100 hours between two offices
Volunteering Experience: 170 DAing in two offices, 100 in two pantries
Employment: 1000+ hours in service, 200 in park watcher.
Research: None
Other Extracurriculars: Leadership class with service hours, few hours in a dental club (got closed due to covid)
Have you volunteered/shadowed/attended events at any dental schools? No
Relevant Honors or Awards: 2 honors
LOR type and strength: 3 STEM professors of high level classes (includes personal course advisor), 1 from dentist I DA'd with.
Misc Info/Things not stated elsewhere/Red Flags:
none
School list:

AT.Still- open
CaseWest- open
MWU-Interviewed/WL
Nova- rejected prior to dec 15th
Rose-open
Touro- withdrew (wasn't able to get letter of rec from a grad professor in time)
Colorado- rejected (discussed with them the issues of my application- Liked everything about me but quoted me to achieve 350 hours total in a dental office)
Louisville-rejected
Maryland-open
Las Vegas- open
New England- rejected

5 colleges remain, 4 rejects, 1 interview, 1 withdrew.
 
Date of submission: May 30th ASAP
Overall GPA: 3.2
Science GPA: 2.95
Bio-Chem-Physics GPA: 3.1
DAT score (include AA and all sections): 20. PA-20, QR-20, RC-20, Bio-20, GC-21, OC-19
State of Residence: michigan
Masters GPA: 3.57

Major: BS in bio, MA in Bio
Minor: If double minor, list both here
Minority? yes, but ORM
Reapplicant? Yes 3x
Nontrad? no

Shadowing Experience:
100 hours between two offices
Volunteering Experience: 170 DAing in two offices, 100 in two pantries
Employment: 1000+ hours in service, 200 in park watcher.
Research: None
Other Extracurriculars: Leadership class with service hours, few hours in a dental club (got closed due to covid)
Have you volunteered/shadowed/attended events at any dental schools? No
Relevant Honors or Awards: 2 honors
LOR type and strength: 3 STEM professors of high level classes (includes personal course advisor), 1 from dentist I DA'd with.
Misc Info/Things not stated elsewhere/Red Flags: none
School list:
AT.Still- open
CaseWest- open
MWU-Interviewed/WL
Nova- rejected prior to dec 15th
Rose-open
Touro- withdrew (wasn't able to get letter of rec from a grad professor in time)
Colorado- rejected (discussed with them the issues of my application- Liked everything about me but quoted me to achieve 350 hours total in a dental office)
Louisville-rejected
Maryland-open
Las Vegas- open
New England- rejected

5 colleges remain, 4 rejects, 1 interview, 1 withdrew.
you probably should have applied to more schools

when did complete app the first two times? how many schools did you apply to? how many interviews?
 
you probably should have applied to more schools

when did complete app the first two times? how many schools did you apply to? how many interviews?
I completed and sent the apps in ASAP, however GPA was terrible at the time.
Zero interviews in the past.
 
So you never tried UDM, which would be your only feasible in-state option (Michigan maybe but I think your sGPA is lower than what they want... but could be wrong).

You must show significant improvement as a reapplicant from a previous application, or else you would get rejected... which seems to be what happened with these schools.
 
So you never tried UDM, which would be your only feasible in-state option (Michigan maybe but I think your sGPA is lower than what they want... but could be wrong).

You must show significant improvement as a reapplicant from a previous application, or else you would get rejected... which seems to be what happened with these schools.
I've tried it before, however they have a 3.0 sgpa cutoff. I emailed them if they'll hold my Masters gpa over my overall Sgpa but they said no
 
Some things that confuse me that are not addressed... maybe you did, and if I missed it, I apologize.

Why such a short list of schools? If you really wanted to go to a dental school, I would have applied 15+. Hell, even 20+.

In the time you were 2 times rejected, what have you done? Wasn't it a shocker to you that you didn't get any interviews? Sure, there are things you can't control anymore (ex. GPA) but why not retake DAT? If you were sitting with a 23+, it would have been understandable. But a 20, with an absolute subpar GPA? If GPA doesn't cut it, show it with your DAT. If neither is showing your capability, why would any school be interested in you?

Do more shadowing hours? More volunteering hours? I would not consider 170 hours DA as a volunteering hours. It was an employment without pay. They want "volunteering" as in... a community service. You essentially have 100 hours. Why so little? Sure, for dental schools they don't really look at community services that much, but I see it as "I just tried to do the minimum as possible." You are competing with students with HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS of hours.

Don't take it the wrong way. I'm trying to be realistic here. Your stats and history are boring to say the least. When schools see your re-application and see the same boring stuff, they will reject you out right. You didn't put in enough work to yourself. You said yourself that you are not a competitive applicant. Then get yourself out there and make yourself a competitive applicant. Study hard for months and retake DAT. There is nobody who can't get 24+ after studying hard for it. Get some more work done with volunteering and community services. What have you been doing in your free time??
 
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Some things that confuse me that are not addressed... maybe you did, and if I missed it, I apologize.

Why such a short list of schools? If you really wanted to go to a dental school, I would have applied 15+. Hell, even 20+.
Because applications are expensive.
In the time I was rejected I obtained more volunteer hours, retook my DAT, and finishing up a masters. No, it wasn't a shocker. I've already retaken the DAT from 19 to 20, plus 20 is fine to indicate I'm more than my freshman GPA.
I would not consider 170 hours DA as a volunteering hours. It was an employment without pay. They want "volunteering" as in... a community service.
sorry but this is redundant. Providing volunteer services to lower-income individuals, as long as it is professionally productive, is still a volunteer service.
You're wrong, employment without pay is also known as "slavery"- seeing how I choose when to come in and when to leave, and I was there on my own volition it was most definitely volunteer work as opposed to the prior. Don't gatekeep whats volunteer work and whats not.
I've only really begin to pump in more hours altogether because I was in undergrad for 3 years with half of that under covid, and even then I was trying to scrape as many hours as possible while being a full time student.
Your stats and history are boring to say the least. When schools see your re-application and see the same boring stuff, they will reject you out right.
except its not the same stuff. I've been busting my ass getting good grades in my masters course to show a positive trend since a personal issue in 2019-2020. My upward trend is very impressive. From my discussion with Colorado they were very impressed and pleased with everything, they just wished I had more dental office hours as opposed to my pantry hours.
Get some more work done with volunteering and community services. What have you been doing in your free time??
Acquired CPR and first aid certifications, reading self-improvement books, learning to code, and looking to apply to a new office to volunteer or work in.
 
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Because applications are expensive.
In the time I was rejected I obtained more volunteer hours, retook my DAT, and finishing up a masters. No, it wasn't a shocker. I've already retaken the DAT from 19 to 20, plus 20 is fine to indicate I'm more than my freshman GPA.

sorry but this is redundant. Providing volunteer services to lower-income individuals, as long as it is professionally productive, is still a volunteer service.
You're wrong, employment without pay is also known as "slavery"- seeing how I choose when to come in and when to leave, and I was there on my own volition it was most definitely volunteer work as opposed to the prior. Don't gatekeep whats volunteer work and whats not.
I've only really begin to pump in more hours altogether because I was in undergrad for 3 years with half of that under covid, and even then I was trying to scrape as many hours as possible while being a full time student.

except its not the same stuff. I've been busting my ass getting good grades in my masters course to show a positive trend since a personal issue in 2019-2020. My upward trend is very impressive. From my discussion with Colorado they were very impressed and pleased with everything, they just wished I had more dental office hours as opposed to my pantry hours.

Alright. If you believe that you are right, I nor anyone else can give you any advice that will stick to you. You do you.

I worked as a pre-health and dental advisory in a college for almost a decade, sending hundreds to med and dental schools. I know what I am talking about. I understand what schools seek for and how they interpret applications. Sadly, no school gives two s**t about what you think about their process nor what you believe.

Yes, applications are expensive. Do you want to go to dental school or not? These initial application fees are expensive? How do you plan to survive the costs in dental school? Have you looked into ADEA FAP? All of these should be considered as an investment. MAYBE, had you applied to more, you could have saved yourself a year or two. If you still think they're not worth it, I genuinely think you should drop all your doing and think of another career path.

You retook your DAT for a mere 1 point to a 20, and YOU think it's sufficient enough? You know you are a non-competitive applicant, yet you try to convince yourself to be "fine." Clearly, being rejected two cycles, without interviews, has already shown that it is not "fine."

"Working" as a DA in PRIVATE OFFICES, or a "low-income" dental clinic (whatever the hell that means), whether for a pay or not, is NOT a volunteer service. Are dentists working there voluntarily? All materials provided by donations? Patients, with insurance or not, NOT paying for any service? If not, IT IS NOT A VOLUNTEER SERVICE. It's shadowing at best. It goes under WORK EXPERIENCE in your CE/application. I don't care what YOU believe. Schools don't care what YOU believe.

You didn't bust your ass hard enough. Sorry, it is what it is. If every school you applied to found your stats or "trend" impressive, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Acquired CPR and first aid certifications, reading self-improvement books, learning to code, and looking to apply to a new office to volunteer or work in.

You sound like one of my friends who is never improving himself in his field, does all the random crap, complains why he's not being hired, and stays in the same damn puddle. For 20 years. Earning 25 dollars an hour. With the exception of CPR certification, which by the way, only takes 1-2 hours in-person session, none of what you listed helps with your application. EVERYONE is "looking" to do something. Are you seriously telling me that this is all the extra stuff you did in 1-2 years of time while you were rejected? Oh, and trust me, you weren't the only one who has gone through the COVID times as a full time student.

As others have said: make yourself competitive. Show significant improvements. I see none of those. Why would schools even consider you as a NON-competitive applicant? They already get hundreds to thousands of competitive applicants. Is your plan to be at the bottom of the pool?

Your step one is understanding your reality. Get out of delusion. You sought for an advice and you've gotten them. Your stats are terrible. You are an average applicant at best. Your GPA is mediocre. Your improvements/trends are from B/B- in undergrad to B+ in masters. When people do masters to outweigh their terrible undergrad GPA, they're usually 3.8+. Get a grip. You didn't bust your ass off. The majority of students who actually bust their asses off would laugh at this. Show your competitiveness with a much higher DAT, 23+. Get out there and work.

Sorry if I sounded harsh. You need a wake up call. Also, I think you were either too stubborn in your ways in college or your pre-health advisor was terrible. Or both.

I am done. Good luck to you.
 
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You retook your DAT for a mere 1 point to a 20, and YOU think it's sufficient enough?
yes. according to ADA
Thats a 12 percentile jump.
"Working" as a DA in PRIVATE OFFICES, or a "low-income" dental clinic (whatever the hell that means), whether for a pay or not, is NOT a volunteer service. Are dentists working there voluntarily?
yes
All materials provided by donations?
yes- or purchased via donated money
Patients, with insurance or not, NOT paying for any service?
yes
If not, IT IS NOT A VOLUNTEER SERVICE.
Why do you think I referred to it as a low-income dental clinic? Some would call it a Non-for profit.
again, stop gatekeeping.
I don't care what YOU believe. Schools don't care what YOU believe.
From what you demonstrated, I don't think I should care what you believe because, at the very least you got off the wrong foot.
"OP, you've done nothing to make you application look good"- wrong, I've done a masters and achieved over 3.6. Hell, the vast majority of my bad classes anyway came from my middle/early college work to begin with.
"volunteering at a dental clinic doesn't count as volunteer work, admins won't see it as that"- most redundant point to see. What? Am I gonna be crucified? Even if you're right there is no world where the work I did would even be looked down upon. You're making a non-issue.
If every school you applied to found your stats or "trend" impressive,
Probably more so for any unofficial 3.0 GPA cut-offs. Even so, It was quoted to me, again, by schools to get more in-office dental experience, which I am currently seeking out.
Earning 25 dollars an hour. With the exception of CPR certification, which by the way, only takes 1-2 hours in-person session, none of what you listed helps with your application.
you just asked what I did in my free time. I don't consider working on my application "free time". Hell, I even mentioned I'm try to take time to find dental opportunities.
Sorry if I sounded harsh
No, most information you provided was just redundant while telling me my stats are low. Like, a productive stand-point would be telling me my main question- how many volunteer hours do you suggest for me to get?
 
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yes. according to ADA
Thats a 12 percentile jump.

yes

yes- or purchased via donated money

yes

Why do you think I referred to it as a low-income dental clinic? Some would call it a Non-for profit.
again, stop gatekeeping.

From what you demonstrated, I don't think I should care what you believe because, at the very least you got off the wrong foot.
"OP, you've done nothing to make you application look good"- wrong, I've done a masters and achieved over 3.6. Hell, the vast majority of my bad classes anyway came from my middle/early college work to begin with.
"volunteering at a dental clinic doesn't count as volunteer work, admins won't see it as that"- most redundant point to see. What? Am I gonna be crucified? Even if you're right there is no world where the work I did would even be looked down upon. You're making a non-issue.

Probably more so for any unofficial 3.0 GPA cut-offs. Even so, It was quoted to me, again, by schools to get more in-office dental experience, which I am currently seeking out.

you just asked what I did in my free time. I don't consider working on my application "free time". Hell, I even mentioned I'm try to take time to find dental opportunities.

No, most information you provided was just redundant while telling me my stats are low. Like, a productive stand-point would be telling me my main question- how many volunteer hours do you suggest for me to get?
from OP- Masters GPA: 3.57

which is it?
both cannot be true...
 
from OP- Masters GPA: 3.57

which is it?
both cannot be true...
when I applied it was a 3.7, I just had a bad fall semester because the only leftover* class I could choose was a brand new experimental class/subject.
 
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