I have a question

[SuperGoober]

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Would somebody be so kind as to let me know how many years it takes to become a cardiologist? Oh, and would you please give the order of each step nessecary? Thank you in advance to anyone who answers my question.

 

[Airborne]

SuperGoober

Undergraduate: 4 years
Med School: 4 years
IM residency: 3 years
Card Fellowship: 3 years

This will get to the cardiologist stage. Of course, this doesn't count anytime one would spend in research, nor does it factor any advanced fellowships (such as interventional) that one can take after becoming a cardiologist.

Airborne

 

[candiedapple01]

As long as the cardiologist question is posted in the Pre-MSTP forum... do MD/PhDs do tradition residencies and/or specialties after graduation? I'm asking because I'm very interested in applying to MD/PhD programs but I also have a mind to go the surgery route afterwards and would love to practice orthopaedic surgery... do MD/PhD programs frown upon this and expect their graduates to stick to research?

Thanks!

 

[Airborne]

candiedapple01:

You can go into any residency that you want afterwards - including orthopaedics, plastics, neurosurg, ENT or whatever surgical field you can think of.

There are many fine Ortho surgeon/scientists who graduated MD/PhD programs - and several who have gotten their PhDs during residency...

Whether you go into a surgical specialy or a medical specialty, the training difference is minimal, by the time you consider fellowships, etc.

Airborne

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Airborne
There are many fine Ortho surgeon/scientists who graduated MD/PhD programs - and several who have gotten their PhDs during residency...

there are residency programs that offer PhDs? I've heard of some residencies that require a year of research but thats not enough time to get a PhD.

I'm assuming you are not talking about residents who also chose to go to grad school and work on a PhD in a separate program. Thats nearly impossible I would imagine, especially while working 90 hours a week in the hospital treating patients

 

[Airborne]

MacGyver:

It's not impossible at all to get a PhD during a surgical residency -

In fact, many programs now have upto 2 years of research (for research tracks) and I would imagine that you could get an additional year in to complete a PhD.

For instance, U of Minn's otolaryngology training program integrates either a MS or PhD into their program - if you are academically inclined, this would be a wonderful option if you did not do a PhD (but wanted one) during (or before) medical school. This can be seen at:

http://www.med.umn.edu/otol/training/descrip.htm

There are many others in other surgical and physician programs - a little searching should yield you plenty of options.

Regards,

Airborne

 

[MacGyver]

that program sounds pretty cool, only 2 extra years for the PhD vs just the regular 4 year clinical residency.... i just was not aware that you could get a Phd in a clinical discipline like ENT.

So i assume other programs let you get a Phd in radiology, surgery, cardiology, etc?

 

[Airborne]

There is a HUGE need for clinician/scientists in all fields...

But don't take my word... there was a recent series of correspondences in Nature medicine, May 2002 on this subject:

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/dynapage.taf?file=/nm/journal/v8/n5/index.html

There are HEAPS of programs that offer advanced degrees during your post-graduate training. A little searching and you will be pleasantly surprized

Airborne

 

[FunnyBones]

1. Cardiology: you can "fast-track" or do what's called a CI (clinical investigator track) through residency and do only 2 instead of the traditional 3 yr residency. The board allows you to do this (in certain acredited programs) and still sit for the medicine boards if you continue onto a fellowship. To be board certified in cardiology, you need to do a 3yr fellowship. Typically medicine fellowships require 1 year full time clinical duties with 2 years of research and/or clinical duties. Interventional and electrophys require an additional year. 6yr minimum post graduate work, usually more.

2. There are some orthopods that are MD-PhD's. Not a ton. The AAOS is making a push to get more clinician-scientists into ortho. The rush has not been far from overwhelming though. Currently, most academic departments have NO MD-PhDs on staff. By the time you are looking for jobs (> 14 years from now if you're currently premed), things should be different. Very few ortho residency programs now offer an opportunity to get an MS or PhD in any kind of integrated fashion but that may also change. In conclusion, things are not arms-wide-open inviting and some/many md-phd programs will discourage you to do this but don't be discouraged because there are folks out there.

3. PhDs are NOT offered in clinical departments. With the exception of the rare integrated clinical department, the PhD portion of MD-PhD or res-PhD is performed under the aegis of a basic science department or a interdepartmental graduate program. 2 years for a PhD in surgical residency can be done but is extremely rare. 3-4 years is more typical. The trend for g surg right now is to get rid of the 2 yrs mandatory research or to make it optional even in some academic programs.

4. Why do a MD-PhD and go into a surgical specialty. You are needed and will be very wanted. Many (but not all) ent, ortho, uro, obgyn programs are already trying to recruit more of those interested in research. Neurosurg and ophtho have been successfully doing so for some time now but can certainly use a continued steady flow. And res + fellowship is typically 6-7yrs (longer for g surg, n surg, depends for uro).

5. Send me a PM if you want to discuss more.

MD-PhD 2003, U Penn, Matching in Ortho

 

[neuropsych]

Damn, long hike. You guys rock!