"I just want to pass" - bad mentality to have?

[Crayola227]

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I'm wondering what some of the mindset is here....

for me, I busted my ass super hard the first anatomy block.... and when I got NH I was like, "Sweet!!" I missed the part where the other part of the grade was a Pass.... averaging out to a big fat Pass. Talk about letdown. I've never worked that hard and done that ****ty before. I had to adjust my attitude for sure. However, I think I went too much the other way, the way of the OP.

anyway, I get what some people are saying, it seems pretty defeatist when you get the same grade for anywhere from 65%-85%

for me, there was that defeatism, and a big fat dose of depression, followed up by burn out

some people can "skate by" their classes (my first SDN post of all time, "CK Slacker needs serious advice" lol) and it won't show in their board scores
per tests and my evaluators, I have a solid knowledge base
however, I will never forget how it felt when one evaluator said my knowledge was "below average" for my peers
and when it really counts, as Dr. Crayola, every time I would be pimped or patient care and I didn't know the answer....
sure that's always going to happen to anyone, but *I'll* never be able to shrug it off as that and console myself I did my best

I'll always have to live with the guilt, and I'll never now for sure the difference that would make now
Even doing well by whatever measures, I will know all ways it affects my work even if no one else does. Worse is knowing this and trying to hide it and and make up for it. I will always be the one knowing I should know it as I go to Google. Feeling insecure in front of my PD, fellow residents, patients. Spending the time I didn't spend then as a busy resident now hoping to catch up for patient care and ultimately boards. Keep in mind this way of feeling affects a lot of insecure perfectionistic types that busted ass through all of med school and got 260s on steps, so why add ammunition against yourself by slacking?

has it killed anyone? no, I know what I know and what I don't know and it's true what they say you can look stuff up.... (but you have no time!)
the very fact I have passed medical school and done as well as I have on my boards, means that our profession has deemed my knowledge base adequate, good, even, that's why we have that safety check there (this is how I console myself...)

BUT

if I could go back in time, I still wouldn't care about grades, but I wouldn't have let my depression or defeatism have kept me from studying as hard as I possibly could without burning out. *That* should be your goal. Period.

The goal is for you to be as close to a walking medical encyclopedia as possible, because the time pressure introduced by the business of medicine *is* that bad, and in your brain is still faster access than your smartphone. Everything you know off the top of your head is a timesaver. Time saved = more time for analytical thinking and time with patients (or the mountain of paperwork, or your kids). So it does translate to better patient care the more you know. Our brains work heuristically, they actually process differently than your desktop computer so there's no way to account for the difference in your application of medical knowledge in your brain vs what you pulled out of your smartphone. And my favorite, you can't make the diagnosis if you don't know the diagnosis (its existence).

TLDR
horrible mentality that can affect you the rest of your career
I hope you're not depressed or burnt out, if so, please address it
A stitch in time saves nine. Learn all you can now.

 

[DrDreams]

Yes

Just do your absolute best. No regrets. You should be able to look back and feel like you did your best. But your best will continually be bested by you. Therefore. Each best should be above the previous best.

However, when everything turns into a **** show. It is totally OK to just want to pass. Just not OK to be that way from the get go imho

 

[Seth Joo]

I just finished my second year and am in the process of dedicated studying and my peers are shocked when I say "I just want to pass" when it comes to this exam. Yes, I am aware that this will close off a lot of doors, and I'll probably end up doing my residency in Zimbabwe.

We're all in medical school. Getting here wasn't easy, and getting through the first 2 years wasn't easy. I honestly just wanted to pass the first 2 years, didn't really care too much about being on top. And I have that same mentality for this exam.

Is it as terrible as my friends make it out to be? We're so used to always being on the top in life (that's how we got into med school in the first place), that being below average sounds somewhat appealing at this point. Liberating, almost.

Or am I just crazy?

Really depends, some schools grade their students Pass/Fail, so grades really do not matter. In other schools you have to work super hard just to pass, the amount of work you get as a medical student is a lot more than you had as an undergraduate.

Don't make the assumption that passing in medical school is easy.

 

[Montisumo]

no skin off my d*** if you want to move to idaho and practice preventative medicine.

u make it seem like preventative medicine is a joke. The real joke is medicine, idk why society places more value in treating the sick with ineffective meds vs trying to prevent disease in the first place Oh yea thats right its because the pharma companies run the show.. What a joke... Dont drink the kool-aid friend =)

 

[IlDestriero]

u make it seem like preventative medicine is a joke. The real joke is medicine, idk why society places more value in treating the sick with ineffective meds vs trying to prevent disease in the first place Oh yea thats right its because the pharma companies run the show.. What a joke... Dont drink the kool-aid friend =)

Yes, you're right.
Patients have no idea that smoking cigarettes, abusing alcohol, high fat diets, morbid obesity, sleep apnea, sedentary lifestyles, sleep deprivation, etc are all bad for them.
It's a conspiracy between McDonald's, Walmart, ComCast, and big pharma to keep people sick.
If only they knew all the poor lifestyle choices they made were making them sick. Hopefully the next president of the US will make it a priority to get this info out there to the public. And maybe create local programs for smoking cessation, or some kind of anonymous program for alcoholics to help stay well and sober, or open places where people could go to do something like swimming or some exercise, maybe create an industry for diet foods or something. That's just a dream though.
If there was only some way to get the word out to the people. And while we're at it, maybe get the word out that, while a last resort, being compliant with medication plans for existing serious illnesses is important too.

--
Il Destriero

 

[TBV]

u make it seem like preventative medicine is a joke. The real joke is medicine, idk why society places more value in treating the sick with ineffective meds vs trying to prevent disease in the first place Oh yea thats right its because the pharma companies run the show.. What a joke... Dont drink the kool-aid friend =)

Is there a hersheys kiss under that foil hat? Maybe people find it boring and you're looking wayy too far into my comments. Didn't say it wasn't important, I said it sucks.

 

[The Kraken]

The difference between low passing and high passing is a distinction that should be made. The difference between high pass and honors is memorizing every single line over thousands of power point slides and remembering which section of the CNS has the highest miRNA concentrations of whatever bull**** gene product the PhD lecturing to you studies. Maybe this is the magic knowledge people say they remembered for step 1, but I highly ****ing doubt it. I don't know if the ms4s and residents in this thread went to schools with standardized exams, but this preclinical stuff can **** right off.

Sent from my SM-N910V using SDN mobile

 

[memory tcells]

Go back on the mood stabilizers buddy

Naw, let him enjoy his epinephrine shots. It's more entertaining this way.

 

[Seth Joo]

Yes, you're right.
Patients have no idea that smoking cigarettes, abusing alcohol, high fat diets, morbid obesity, sleep apnea, sedentary lifestyles, sleep deprivation, etc are all bad for them.
It's a conspiracy between McDonald's, Walmart, ComCast, and big pharma to keep people sick.
If only they knew all the poor lifestyle choices they made were making them sick. Hopefully the next president of the US will make it a priority to get this info out there to the public. And maybe create local programs for smoking cessation, or some kind of anonymous program for alcoholics to help stay well and sober, or open places where people could go to do something like swimming or some exercise, maybe create an industry for diet foods or something. That's just a dream though.
If there was only some way to get the word out to the people. And while we're at it, maybe get the word out that, while a last resort, being compliant with medication plans for existing serious illnesses is important too.

--
Il Destriero

If that next President is the presumptive Republican nominee, I doubt it, he is 70 pounds overweight. If you do a Google search he stands a little over 6 feet tall (not 6'2" as he claims) and weighs a hefty 255 pounds. Although he does not drink alcohol, smoke, or abuse recreational drugs, its well known that he eats a very poor diet. In fact he consumes cheeseburgers and well done steaks as his daily staples. For the record well done meat contains toxins that can lead to memory loss and Alzheimer's. I amazed his personal physician claims that he is "healthy" and fit to be President.

The sad reality is that many people out there know their lifestyle choices are contributing to their poor health. Most people just do not want to change their bad habits.

 

[mcloaf]

he consumes cheeseburgers and well done steaks as his daily staples

No man who orders his steak well-done will ever be my president.

 

[Seth Joo]

No man who orders his steak well-done will ever be my president.

Well you know who not to vote for then. 🙂. I watched an old Trump interview from 1987 with Larry King, the man just exudes negativity, no surprise he has been married three times. Who wants to be around someone like that? Its not surprising his rallies attract angry people. In the 1987 interview he was focusing on Japan as a threat to the US, Japan folded in the 1990s. Lately he has focused on China lately.

 

[Promethean]

I say "I just want to pass" a lot.

What I mean is "Of course, I want the best grade/score that I can get! But I'm pre-emptively acknowledging that I don't plan to go into the most competitive specialties, so my performance on any one measure isn't going to make or break my entire career, so why spend even an iota of time/energy worrying about what my score is going to be. That would only distract from my efforts to study and prepare to do well. As long as I pass it, I get to keep moving forward. If it is a high mark, great. If it is a low, but passing, mark, I will have opportunities to do better on something else."

But that is wordy, so "I just want to pass."

 

[Entadus]

The difference between low passing and high passing is a distinction that should be made. The difference between high pass and honors is memorizing every single line over thousands of power point slides and remembering which section of the CNS has the highest miRNA concentrations of whatever bull**** gene product the PhD lecturing to you studies. Maybe this is the magic knowledge people say they remembered for step 1, but I highly ****ing doubt it. I don't know if the ms4s and residents in this thread went to schools with standardized exams, but this preclinical stuff can **** right off.

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Tell us how you really feel

 

[Entadus]

I say "I just want to pass" a lot.

What I mean is "Of course, I want the best grade/score that I can get! But I'm pre-emptively acknowledging that I don't plan to go into the most competitive specialties, so my performance on any one measure isn't going to make or break my entire career, so why spend even an iota of time/energy worrying about what my score is going to be. That would only distract from my efforts to study and prepare to do well. As long as I pass it, I get to keep moving forward. If it is a high mark, great. If it is a low, but passing, mark, I will have opportunities to do better on something else."

But that is wordy, so "I just want to pass."

That's way too complicated

I say "I want honors"

or sometimes "I want the top score in the class"

or "I want one of the top scores in the country"

Not everyone is trying to fulfill their grandest goals and dreams. Most people major in minor things in life. Not everyone wants to be the best at something (wants it badly enough to do whatever it takes). Whatever-- different strokes for different folks. But at the end of the day, I want to be insanely great. It's common sense that when you're truly passionate about something, you're going to try your absolute best.

It's inspiring to meet ambitious people and I am one of them.

 

[Promethean]

It's inspiring to meet ambitious people and I am one of them.

It isn't that I'm not ambitious. It is just that my ambitions don't map onto how well I do on an exam. There is so much more that I want to be proud of in life, other than what numbers I can pull on a test. I refuse to hang my self-esteem on any one grade or score. And I definitely don't want to make anyone else who is struggling feel bad. I get nothing from that. If I did have the top score, I wouldn't want to crow about it because I'd worry how that would affect my classmate who barely scraped by... or worse.

We all tell ourselves what we need to hear to get through this. For me, the mantra "I just need to pass" keeps my mind free and focused on doing much better than just passing. If it doesn't work for you, that is cool, too. Really, not everything has to be a competition.

 

[Entadus]

It isn't that I'm not ambitious. It is just that my ambitions don't map onto how well I do on an exam. There is so much more that I want to be proud of in life, other than what numbers I can pull on a test. I refuse to hang my self-esteem on any one grade or score. And I definitely don't want to make anyone else who is struggling feel bad. I get nothing from that. If I did have the top score, I wouldn't want to crow about it because I'd worry how that would affect my classmate who barely scraped by... or worse.

We all tell ourselves what we need to hear to get through this. For me, the mantra "I just need to pass" keeps my mind free and focused on doing much better than just passing. If it doesn't work for you, that is cool, too. Really, not everything has to be a competition.

I guess I see what you're saying, but why not say something like "As well as I can" or "I just want to do my absolute best"?

And as for worrying if others feel bad; who has time to step on eggshells all day? Not that I go around blasting it to all, obviously there is some level of sensitivity and sensory acuity beforehand, but if telling others my realistic and personal goals makes them upset.... that's due to their own insecurities. Somebody has to be the best. Why pretend like I'm at a place where I'm not? It's not about getting something from it; it's about being honest and true to my purpose, and unabashedly confident in myself and my own strengths.

 

[Promethean]

I guess I see what you're saying, but why not say something like "As well as I can" or "I just want to do my absolute best"?

And as for worrying if others feel bad; who has time to step on eggshells all day? Not that I go around blasting it to all, obviously there is some level of sensitivity and sensory acuity beforehand, but if telling others my realistic and personal goals makes them upset.... that's due to their own insecurities. Somebody has to be the best. Why pretend like I'm at a place where I'm not? It's not about getting something from it; it's about being honest and true to my purpose, and unabashedly confident in myself and my own strengths.

Why not phrase it that way? Because I perform my best when the pressure is lowest. The more I can discharge anxiety by telling myself that it is cool if I just pass, the more likely I am to kill it.

And I don't feel like I'm on eggshells. Just... I would bet good money that my MCAT score is at least 10 points higher than average for my class, and probably actually the highest in the class. But you know as well as I do how much that matters now that I am actually in the seat. I have bragging rights, but exercising them would just be a douche move. Everyone else who is there with me is just as much a medical student now as I am, no matter what our stats coming into it. If I land my dream FM residency with a 245 Step I, alongside someone else with a 220, we will both be residents together. It isn't dishonest not to bring up things that really don't matter. MCAT and Step scores and class ranks aren't the only measures of an insanely good physician.

Those things are just mile markers, and I don't invest much in them. I invest much more in the people who are running the race with me. What is easy for me today may be crushingly difficult for them. Our roles may reverse in the next leg of the competition. The kinder and more humble I am when I am ahead, the more likely they will be to help me keep pace should I fall behind. I've gone to a lot of trouble to foster that kind of cooperative attitude in our class, and our upperclassmen and the faculty have taken note of it. They comment that our class is particularly positive and that we help one another out much more than they had observed in other classes. That is the kind of thing I am proud of. My ambitions include all of us doing well, all of us at least passing, and doing as much better than that as we can manage.

 

[Entadus]

Why not phrase it that way? Because I perform my best when the pressure is lowest. The more I can discharge anxiety by telling myself that it is cool if I just pass, the more likely I am to kill it.

And I don't feel like I'm on eggshells. Just... I would bet good money that my MCAT score is at least 10 points higher than average for my class, and probably actually the highest in the class. But you know as well as I do how much that matters now that I am actually in the seat. I have bragging rights, but exercising them would just be a douche move. Everyone else who is there with me is just as much a medical student now as I am, no matter what our stats coming into it. If I land my dream FM residency with a 245 Step I, alongside someone else with a 220, we will both be residents together. It isn't dishonest not to bring up things that really don't matter. MCAT and Step scores and class ranks aren't the only measures of an insanely good physician.

Those things are just mile markers, and I don't invest much in them. I invest much more in the people who are running the race with me. What is easy for me today may be crushingly difficult for them. Our roles may reverse in the next leg of the competition. The kinder and more humble I am when I am ahead, the more likely they will be to help me keep pace should I fall behind. I've gone to a lot of trouble to foster that kind of cooperative attitude in our class, and our upperclassmen and the faculty have taken note of it. They comment that our class is particularly positive and that we help one another out much more than they had observed in other classes. That is the kind of thing I am proud of. My ambitions include all of us doing well, all of us at least passing, and doing as much better than that as we can manage.

Nice post.

 

[Azete]

Why not phrase it that way? Because I perform my best when the pressure is lowest. The more I can discharge anxiety by telling myself that it is cool if I just pass, the more likely I am to kill it.

And I don't feel like I'm on eggshells. Just... I would bet good money that my MCAT score is at least 10 points higher than average for my class, and probably actually the highest in the class. But you know as well as I do how much that matters now that I am actually in the seat. I have bragging rights, but exercising them would just be a douche move. Everyone else who is there with me is just as much a medical student now as I am, no matter what our stats coming into it. If I land my dream FM residency with a 245 Step I, alongside someone else with a 220, we will both be residents together. It isn't dishonest not to bring up things that really don't matter. MCAT and Step scores and class ranks aren't the only measures of an insanely good physician.

Those things are just mile markers, and I don't invest much in them. I invest much more in the people who are running the race with me. What is easy for me today may be crushingly difficult for them. Our roles may reverse in the next leg of the competition. The kinder and more humble I am when I am ahead, the more likely they will be to help me keep pace should I fall behind. I've gone to a lot of trouble to foster that kind of cooperative attitude in our class, and our upperclassmen and the faculty have taken note of it. They comment that our class is particularly positive and that we help one another out much more than they had observed in other classes. That is the kind of thing I am proud of. My ambitions include all of us doing well, all of us at least passing, and doing as much better than that as we can manage.

I wish med school was more like this. You would think, from a logical perspective, that the goal of every med school (and the students within it) should be to help every student become the best possible physician. If students were half as altruistic as their applications claimed they were, we'd all see things from the perspective of our peer's future patients and want all of our classmates to perform as well as possible.

But alas, it is not. We're all hyper competitive, accentuated by a ranking system that inherently pits us against each other Hunger Games style. Honestly I never understood grades and rankings for pre-clinical coursework; why can't passing be enough, and allow the highly capable students distinguish themselves through boards and clinical performance?

 

[W19]

I wish med school was more like this. You would think, from a logical perspective, that the goal of every med school (and the students within it) should be to help every student become the best possible physician. If students were half as altruistic as their applications claimed they were, we'd all see things from the perspective of our peer's future patients and want all of our classmates to perform as well as possible.

But alas, it is not. We're all hyper competitive, accentuated by a ranking system that inherently pits us against each other Hunger Games style. Honestly I never understood grades and rankings for pre-clinical coursework; why can't passing be enough, and allow the highly capable students distinguish themselves through boards and clinical performance?

Imagine that your school ranks you on every single exam (even quizzes)🙁

 

[abn632]

Sometimes you have to triage a test. Fine, pass the test and then don't let it happen again. If it becomes a habit, you need to reexamine what you are doing and fix it.

 

[TBV]

I wish med school was more like this. You would think, from a logical perspective, that the goal of every med school (and the students within it) should be to help every student become the best possible physician. If students were half as altruistic as their applications claimed they were, we'd all see things from the perspective of our peer's future patients and want all of our classmates to perform as well as possible.

But alas, it is not. We're all hyper competitive, accentuated by a ranking system that inherently pits us against each other Hunger Games style. Honestly I never understood grades and rankings for pre-clinical coursework; why can't passing be enough, and allow the highly capable students distinguish themselves through boards and clinical performance?

More data points brah. I don't mind I love competition, it breeds the best while the worst fall by the wayside. To (loosely) quote will smith, "If we get on treadmills together one of two things is going to happen, you're getting off first or I am going to die". Too many classmates are afraid of being uncomforable and working hard and I'm ok with them going down hunger games style.

 

[Azete]

More data points brah. I don't mind I love competition, it breeds the best while the worst fall by the wayside. To (loosely) quote will smith, "If we get on treadmills together one of two things is going to happen, you're getting off first or I am going to die". Too many classmates are afraid of being uncomforable and working hard and I'm ok with them going down hunger games style.

I'm pretty innately conservative on most issues, so I agree competition usually brings the best out of people -- I certainly don't shy away from it. It just feels like med school is one of those instances where a collaborative environment would breed a better end product.

Maybe I'm wrong, just an opinion.

 

[Crayola227]

More data points brah. I don't mind I love competition, it breeds the best while the worst fall by the wayside. To (loosely) quote will smith, "If we get on treadmills together one of two things is going to happen, you're getting off first or I am going to die". Too many classmates are afraid of being uncomforable and working hard and I'm ok with them going down hunger games style.

going down?

med school isn't meant to be some competition to boost your ego
this is about creating a workforce for social good
everyone that goes "down hunger games style" is a great loss to society

I agree it needs to be stringent and not everyone can make it, but if we can adjust the business of medicine and culture to allow people who have otherwise been judged as having potential to contribute uniquely and solidly to the care of the sick as physicians, as well as recruit the best and expect them to rise to the occasion, that would be ideal

 

[TBV]

going down?

med school isn't meant to be some competition to boost your ego
this is about creating a workforce for social good
everyone that goes "down hunger games style" is a great loss to society

I agree it needs to be stringent and not everyone can make it, but if we can adjust the business of medicine and culture to allow people who have otherwise been judged as having potential to contribute uniquely and solidly to the care of the sick as physicians, as well as recruit the best and expect them to rise to the occasion, that would be ideal

IDK some of the dumbest people I have ever met have been in med school. Plenty that I would crawl away from in a pool of my own blood in a trauma bay and certainly wouldn't let my family see. So I'm not sure about great loss to society. No ego boosting necessary though, if anything I'm hypercritical on myself.

 

[Promethean]

The time for intense competition to weed out the worst should come to a close once you are admitted to medical school. That is why the admissions process is so fierce. Because once you are in, you are making enormous personal and financial sacrifices and you have proven your ability. From that point on, all resources should be in full support of each individual student achieving their personal best, not gouging each other's eyes out in a rank seeking frenzy. Anything else produces entirely too much inefficiency and works to the detriment of all.

It is great to want to be the best doctor ever. But all the other people in your class? They are virtually all going to be doctors, too. They might take care of you, or someone you love. They will certainly take care of people that other folks love. That is reason enough to want to help them keep up. I really want the worst student in my class to still come out with enough knowledge to be a great doctor, to be competent and a skilled critical thinker. Even if their practice never involves anyone that I know personally, they will still be members of my profession, graduates of my school. Their future performance will reflect on me, on my reputation, and the mistakes they make have the potential to affect all of us.

This isn't the Hunger Games. If you recall, that was a broken and amoral system used to break the hearts and souls of the people of that society, to keep them subject to authoritarian rule. While that might describe some medical school experiences... it really is a poor model for training physicians. But, if you must use the Hunger Games metaphor... the real way to win is to work together to get out, so that you can hope to overcome the real enemies you will face, outside the game.

 

[pre med 2014]

Keep in mind guys JFK Jr got into Harvard with a letter of recommendation saying he could be counted on to do the minimum amount of work to pass

The moral of the story is strive to do the minimum that is expected from you. Grading is sometimes subjective and written exam questions don't always gauge medical intellect or knowledge base even. The pass in med school is set high so you know enough to properly diagnose and treat a patient while knowing all the contraindications to avoid harm. Anything over a pass is based on dumb luck and whether or not your tie matches your shirt nicely




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