I know a guy who is turning down US MD for Caribbean ...

[Efflorescence]

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Alternate Title: The Biggest Fool I Ever Met

I wish I was kidding on this one. There's a guy (let's call him Greg) with whom I share a mutual friend (Kate). Yesterday, Kate (who is not in the medical field) told me yesterday that Greg has been accepted to a LCME accredited US MD school and St. George's. He is leaning heavily towards the Caribbean school.


I immediately sent Kate the link to the "Million Dollar Mistake" blog, an SDN thread about Carib schools, and another blog. I know she sent him the Million $ Mistake link. However, he still wants to go to St. George's.

My mind is blown. He doesn't want to go to the US MD school because it's not in a desirable location. However, it's a fine school with some of the lowest tuition in the country.

At first, I wanted to save this guy from making the biggest mistake of his life. He has never liked me and the feeling is mutual; however, I don't want to see anyone ruin his/her life. Now that he has brushed off the blogs, I'm convinced that he is the most foolish person I've ever met and he doesn't deserve the US MD spot. I don't want someone with such poor judgment to be one of my future colleagues. Heck, he doesn't need to be responsible for human lives.

I gave Kate the links to send to Greg, but I think that's all I'm going to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[NotASerialKiller]

I share a mutual friend with someone who burned his house down by falling asleep with a lit cigarette in his mouth after taking too much recreational morphine. People are stupid, don't stress over it.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Clowns are gonna clown. It's just not worth concerning yourself over the buffoonery of other people you don't know.

 

[Efflorescence]

Acutally, I know the guy. We worked together for two summers and are FB friends. But yeah, now I'm just interested to watch this train wreck happen

 

[Planes2Doc]

Maybe he wants to save money and study tropical medicine? 😵

I hope you get the reference.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Maybe he wants to save money and study tropical medicine? 😵

I hope you get the reference.

I do don't worry

 

[TBV]

Haha what a *****. Don't worry he has a better chance at roulette than he does taking care of patients.

 

[RaspberrySlushy]

I also know someone who chose Carib. Idk if he had MD acceptances, but his MCAT score was so high that I'd be surprised if he didn't. Don't know him well tho, so don't know all the circumstances or what his reasons were. Kinda sad.

 

[Lannister]

But it looks so lovely and warm...who wouldn't wanna go there!?

In all seriousness, let it be. You gotta let people make their own decisions.

 

[popopopop]

It always amazes me a bit when smart people make really ignorant decisions. I've seen it pan out well for some, and other times not.

 

[Efflorescence]

Maybe he wants to save money and study tropical medicine? 😵

Lol. The best part ... the US school is significantly cheaper. And by cheap I mean tuition/fees under $20K/year.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Decision making ability is also part of being a good physician. By deciding to go to SGU, he ended up in the appropriate place for him. 😉

 

[Goro]

Maybe he was just f'ing with your head? No one could be THAT stupid!!

Alternate Title: The Biggest Fool I Ever Met

I wish I was kidding on this one. There's a guy (let's call him Greg) with whom I share a mutual friend (Kate). Yesterday, Kate (who is not in the medical field) told me yesterday that Greg has been accepted to a LCME accredited US MD school and St. George's. He is leaning heavily towards the Caribbean school.


I immediately sent Kate the link to the "Million Dollar Mistake" blog, an SDN thread about Carib schools, and another blog. I know she sent him the Million $ Mistake link. However, he still wants to go to St. George's.

My mind is blown. He doesn't want to go to the US MD school because it's not in a desirable location. However, it's a fine school with some of the lowest tuition in the country. According to screenshots from the convo he had with Kate, St. George's "wins" for experience, "but the value is iffy". He just doesn't see himself living in the location of the US MD school.

At first, I wanted to save this guy from making the biggest mistake of his life. He has never liked me and the feeling is mutual; however, I don't want to see anyone ruin his/her life. Now that he has brushed off the blogs, I'm convinced that he is the most foolish person I've ever met and he doesn't deserve the US MD spot. I don't want someone with such poor judgment to be one of my future colleagues. Heck, he doesn't need to be responsible for human lives.

I gave Kate the links to send to Greg, but I think that's all I'm going to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[Lawpy]

That guy is clearly the salesman's dream customer

Maybe he was just f'ing with your head? No one could be THAT stupid!!

Nah. He'll make a nice poster guy for Carib school recruiting methods.

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

Decision making ability is also part of being a good physician. By deciding to go to SGU, he ended up in the appropriate place for him. 😉

Any interviews?

 

[Efflorescence]

Maybe he was just f'ing with your head? No one could be THAT stupid!!

Actually no. I haven't directly spoken with him ... the whole exchange was with his ex-girlfriend. She knows absolutely nothing about medicine/medical school and he had no reason to lie to her. I thought he might be lying about the US MD acceptance (I had her ask when he got accepted ... this school has only offered 1 round of acceptances) but it's all checking out so far. Scary.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Also, if I had a choice between climates, I would actually pick the worse climate and preferably a more boring city. It kind of sucks when you are stuck in anatomy lab or forced to study in a dark corner of the library for most of your time. It makes things a little easier knowing there is nothing special outside those walls. I would hate to be in paradise and then have it ruined by medical school. If he thinks he will be hitting the beach every day, he is wrong. Also, since he is already at a disadvantage as a Caribbean student, he definitely won't want to be hitting up the beach or exploring the island since he will need higher than average board scores to succeed.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I gave Kate the links to send to Greg, but I think that's all I'm going to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

And sometimes the horse is better off as glue.

 

[cantankerous]

I know a girl who said that she got into UPenn but instead came to my low ranked university that gives her less money. People make **** up to look better.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Any interviews?

Who me? Nope, just the one I've already gone on 🙁

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

Who me? Nope, just the one I've already gone on 🙁

I'm so sorry 🙁

 

[Efflorescence]

I know a girl who said that she got into UPenn but instead came to my low ranked university that gives her less money. People make **** up to look better.

That's why I had Kate ask Greg when he was accepted to the US MD school. It's possible that he lied about that as well, but I think he's too dumb for his story to be this good. The US MD school he mentioned (while a good school) is kind of the "last resort" that people look down upon.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I actually have a neighbor who did this as well. She was in a 7 year BS/MD program at USF, and in her 3rd year (before starting M1) met a Ross recruiter who convinced her it was more prestigious to go to a "Big 4" Caribbean School than the "Botton Tier" MD program she was currently in. The girl dropped out and matriculated at Ross, only to fail out during M2 and be left with $150,000 in federal debt.

I think if someone buys into the used car salesman tactics that these schools use before seeing something like SDN, it could be very hard to return them to reality. Thats why someone needs to do something about the predatory behavior of Caribs. People are sold lies, and spend the rest of their life paying for them. It really is unbelievably sad.

I tried to get my premed office to make little brochures with real stats explaining attrition and non-dischargeable debt, but they wouldn't do it for fear of legal repercussions from the schools they'd be bashing.

 

[Me.D.]

I actually have a neighbor who did this as well. She was in a 7 year BS/MD program at USF, and in her 3rd year (before starting M1) met a Ross recruiter who convinced her it was more prestigious to go to a "Big 4" Caribbean School than the "Botton Tier" MD program she was currently in. The girl dropped out and matriculated at Ross, only to fail out during M2 and be left with $150,000 in federal debt.

I think if someone buys into the used car salesman tactics that these schools use before seeing something like SDN, it could be very hard to return them to reality. Thats why someone needs to do something about the predatory behavior of Caribs. People are sold lies, and spend the rest of their life paying for them. It really is unbelievably sad.

I tried to get my premed office to make little brochures with real stats explaining attrition and non-dischargeable debt, but they wouldn't do it for fear of legal repercussions from the schools they'd be bashing.

Now that story is unbelievably sad...

 

[gyngyn]

Maybe he was just f'ing with your head? No one could be THAT stupid!!

My bet is that "Greg" has not been accepted to a US program.
This is just his cover story.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I actually have a neighbor who did this as well. She was in a 7 year BS/MD program at USF, and in her 3rd year (before starting M1) met a Ross recruiter who convinced her it was more prestigious to go to a "Big 4" Caribbean School than the "Botton Tier" MD program she was currently in. The girl dropped out and matriculated at Ross, only to fail out during M2 and be left with $150,000 in federal debt.

I think if someone buys into the used car salesman tactics that these schools use before seeing something like SDN, it could be very hard to return them to reality. Thats why someone needs to do something about the predatory behavior of Caribs. People are sold lies, and spend the rest of their life paying for them. It really is unbelievably sad.

I tried to get my premed office to make little brochures with real stats explaining attrition and non-dischargeable debt, but they wouldn't do it for fear of legal repercussions from the schools they'd be bashing.

This is really sad, especially considering how people would kill to be in a BS/MD program. My cousin is a finance and insurance guy at a big dealership. He tells me the craziest stories about the things people fall for. One of the more popular scams is the "upside down events," where the negative equity in their old car is rolled into a new car loan. They usually end up in a much crappier car and are still technically paying the old car off. Do these people realize that it doesn't magically disappear because of a magical Negative Equity Fairy?

So what do these Big Four Caribbean schools tell people? Is there a magical Residency Fairy that will match half the class into derm?

 

[Efflorescence]

My bet is that "Greg" has not been accepted to a US program.
This is just his cover story.

Plot twist -- I was interviewed and accepted to the US school that he says he will turn down. I'm planning on having Kate ask questions that only someone who has interviewed at that school could answer correctly. I'll post an update when I hear back.

 

[hatsoff9900]

Can someone point me to the Million Dollar Mistake blog?

 

[GrapesofRath]

I have been dealing with many of the off shore schools for years and they just keep polishing their effective (and misleading) sales pitch. They promote the 85%+ residency placement rate which is really 55%-60% match and the rest non match. They never discuss that about 50% of the students drop out. So the chances of starting at any of the better known off shore schools and actually getting ANY residency spot is about 40%-45%, including SOAP/Scramble and prelim.

A decade ago, this was a reasonable path but the residency squeeze just makes it risky for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no job.

I know Law2Doc was talking yesterday about how many of these matches for Carribbean grads that are counted in the statistics are really just matching into 1 year Dead end prelims where they will have to try and match again after one year. Any idea out of curiosity of just how many of Caribbean grads that get "matched" but are really matched into 1 year dead end prelims?

 

[Spector1]

more US med school seats for the rest of us 😛

 

[cantankerous]

This is really sad, especially considering how people would kill to be in a BS/MD program. My cousin is a finance and insurance guy at a big dealership. He tells me the craziest stories about the things people fall for. One of the more popular scams is the "upside down events," where the negative equity in their old car is rolled into a new car loan. They usually end up in a much crappier car and are still technically paying the old car off. Do these people realize that it doesn't magically disappear because of a magical Negative Equity Fairy?

So what do these Big Four Caribbean schools tell people? Is there a magical Residency Fairy that will match half the class into derm?

USF's BS/MD program is unbelievably easy to get into, compared to the others. All you have to do is get into their Honors college (which is based only on numbers. I think 1350ish SAT and 3.8 GPA). If you pull off minimum requirements, you get immediate consideration for the Med School right on campus.

 

[GrapesofRath]

USF's BS/MD program is unbelievably easy to get into, compared to the others. All you have to do is get into their Honors college (which is based only on numbers. I think 1350ish SAT and 3.8 GPA). If you pull off minimum requirements, you get immediate consideration for the Med School right on campus.

The thing with these BS/MD programs is often times the requirements you have to fulfill in UG are so high that anybody who can do it doesn't need the MD link. Same's the case for USF: You need a 3.7 BCPM GPA after 2nd and 3rd years. In addition, they still have to take the MCAT.

You'll find the same with many other programs as well. Hell, WashU requires you to achieve a 3.8 sGPA AND a 36 on the MCAT.

 

[Womb Raider]

Can someone point me to the Million Dollar Mistake blog?

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

 

[Whats up Doc!]

Im turning down my full ride to Harvard to pursue a career in naturopathic medicine 😉

 

[flatbear]

Can i have his us med school seat?

 

[Gandyy]

The thing with these BS/MD programs is often times the requirements you have to fulfill in UG are so high that anybody who can do it doesn't need the MD link. Same's the case for USF: You need a 3.7 BCPM GPA after 2nd and 3rd years. In addition, they still have to take the MCAT.

You'll find the same with many other programs as well. Hell, WashU requires you to achieve a 3.8 sGPA AND a 36 on the MCAT.

Like you said before, it is HIGHLY dependent on the BS/MD program. Some of them are pretty easy to get into RELATIVELY speaking. A lot of these kids from the BS/MD programs would not have made it into a US MD school through the "normal pathway". That I'm most defintely sure of.

Oh and proportionally speaking the ACT/SAT ( a big component of applications for BS/MD programs) are complete and utter jokes compared to the MCAT.

 

[Efflorescence]

Im turning down my full ride to Harvard to pursue a career in naturopathic medicine 😉

Yes, Greg could be lying to save face in front of his ex. I'm still very skeptical of his US acceptance, but the difference between "Big 4 Caribbean - tropical paradise! " and "low-tier US MD in a baaad location" may seem more nuanced to someone who is unaware of the Caribbean scam.

Furthermore, this guy is exactly the kind of jackass who would be lured by a "sexy" location.

I sincerely hope one of you more deserving pre-meds gets his US seat in the undesirable location.

 

[rilte4]

According to screenshots from the convo he had with Kate, St. George's "wins" for experience, "but the value is iffy". He just doesn't see himself living in the location of the US MD school.

I gave Kate the links to send to Greg, but I think that's all I'm going to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I thought he might be lying about the US MD acceptance (I had her ask when he got accepted ... this school has only offered 1 round of acceptances) but it's all checking out so far. Scary.

That's why I had Kate ask Greg when he was accepted to the US MD school. It's possible that he lied about that as well, but I think he's too dumb for his story to be this good.

Plot twist -- I was interviewed and accepted to the US school that he says he will turn down. I'm planning on having Kate ask questions that only someone who has interviewed at that school could answer correctly. I'll post an update when I hear back.

Furthermore, this guy is exactly the kind of jackass who would be lured by a "sexy" location.

It sounds like this started with good intentions, and turned into a determined effort to "out" him. Maybe leave the dude alone and focus on your own interview?

 

[Gandyy]

It sounds like this started with good intentions, and turned into a determined effort to "out" him. Maybe leave the dude alone and focus on your own interview?

OP already said they havent liked each other for a while.

Still doesnt change how *****ic this "Greg" is if he is actually going through with this and the Facts are all true.

 

[IlDestriero]

You should contact the U.S. school he got into and let them know that they accepted a ***** who isn't worthy of a spot there.

 

[rilte4]

OP already said they havent liked each other for a while.

Still doesnt change how *****ic this "Greg" is if he is actually going through with this and the Facts are all true.

Yes, and facts don't change. If Greg's going to the Caribbean, Greg will go to the Caribbean. The facts will continue to be true whether OP continues to probe through this guy's ex or not.

 

[Gandyy]

Yes, and facts don't change. If Greg's going to the Caribbean, Greg will go to the Caribbean. The facts will continue to be true whether OP continues to probe through this guy's ex or not.

I think OP is trying to set up a ploy to get to the bottom of the truth. I dont know if OP is intentionally just going for "probing" and sabotage here.

 

[Mad Jack]

Dumbest thing ever. Doesn't deserve to be a doctor if he's making decisions like this.

 

[rilte4]

I think OP is trying to set up a ploy to get to the bottom of the truth. I dont know if OP is intentionally just going for "probing" and sabotage here.

Probing, yes (that's what he/she's been doing this entire time through "Kate"), but no, I didn't say anything about sabotage. I agree the guy's decisions show a serious lack of judgment, and I wouldn't trade places with him. He's got enough on his plate with the challenges he faces in the future, whether he was accepted to the US MD school or not. My only point is to leave him be and skip the covert interrogation.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Like you said before, it is HIGHLY dependent on the BS/MD program. Some of them are pretty easy to get into RELATIVELY speaking. A lot of these kids from the BS/MD programs would not have made it into a US MD school through the "normal pathway". That I'm most defintely sure of.

Oh and proportionally speaking the ACT/SAT ( a big component of applications for BS/MD programs) are complete and utter jokes compared to the MCAT.

It all depends. Both MD/BS and MCAT vs SAT. Alot of people with relatively medicore SAT/ACT scores do well on the MCAT. Vice versa. Obviously with all the content on the MCAT it requires a different study plan. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[ruedjgtc]

I actually have a neighbor who did this as well. She was in a 7 year BS/MD program at USF, and in her 3rd year (before starting M1) met a Ross recruiter who convinced her it was more prestigious to go to a "Big 4" Caribbean School than the "Botton Tier" MD program she was currently in. The girl dropped out and matriculated at Ross, only to fail out during M2 and be left with $150,000 in federal debt.

I think if someone buys into the used car salesman tactics that these schools use before seeing something like SDN, it could be very hard to return them to reality. Thats why someone needs to do something about the predatory behavior of Caribs. People are sold lies, and spend the rest of their life paying for them. It really is unbelievably sad.

I tried to get my premed office to make little brochures with real stats explaining attrition and non-dischargeable debt, but they wouldn't do it for fear of legal repercussions from the schools they'd be bashing.

I'm not even sure why they allow those recruiters on university campuses, my old university included, it's really does a disservice to the naive and/or those with less medical school application resources to rely on.

 

[Mad Jack]

It all depends. Both MD/BS and MCAT vs SAT. Alot of people with relatively medicore SAT/ACT scores do well on the MCAT. Vice versa. Obviously with all the content on the MCAT it requires a different study plan. Different strokes for different folks.

There's probably a vastly higher proportion of people that use prep services for the MCAT versus the SAT. It's a test most people take far more seriously.

 

[GrapesofRath]

There's probably a vastly higher proportion of people that use prep services for the MCAT versus the SAT. It's a test most people take far more seriously.

Yeah I agree with that for sure, although also the SAT isn't necessairly a test that is as "studyable" as the MCAT. There studies that show the average SAT improvement on a retake is no more than 30-40 points and the SAT actually flags scores of people who improve more than like 300 or 400 points(I forget which one it is) to go through and analyze them for signs of cheating because it is so rare. Also the amount at which people study for the MCAT on SDN varies tremendously with the general population and I'd argue the majority of the pre-meds don't really study for the MCAT the right way(just memorize facts, never use good resources for practice passages etc).

But yeah there's no question people take the MCAT more seriously than the SAT and probably the bigger point is you are comparing testing samples. A 1780 is a medicore score that honestly would be on the low end even for generic State U's who take everybody who can breathe; but it's 80th percentile. 80th percentile on the MCAT is a 31 which is the median MD matriculant score. While we'll never get an exact way(or even a good way) of comparing SAT and MCAT scores maybe the best way is to compare SAT averages at top schools vs the MCAT averages of the people who apply. You'll see an MCAT average ranging from 32-35 at those schools where the applicants had around a 2180-2280 or something on average on the SAT in high school. Perhaps dock a point off the MCAT average because that includes only applicants and not people who got weeded out(although I think even the weeded out people could do decently on the MCAT). Anyway, that's my pseudo semi analysis thinking about both the MCAT and SAT.

 

[Gandyy]

It all depends. Both MD/BS and MCAT vs SAT. Alot of people with relatively medicore SAT/ACT scores do well on the MCAT. Vice versa. Obviously with all the content on the MCAT it requires a different study plan. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm talking about the test itself though. The sheer level of content required just to begin to have any chance on the MCAT already makes it much harder than the ACT/SAT. Plus the critical thinking level plus the demographic of people you are competing against when taking the MCAT makes the MCAT >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SAT/ACT in terms of difficulty.

Edit: There were people who fell asleep during my ACT exam. A lot of people taking the exam are just there to "pass" so they can just apply to whatever college. So you cant compare percentiles either as a 85th percentile on the MCAT is way more impressive than a 85 percentile on the ACT.

 

[Psai]

This thread smells like falsehood